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Thread: showing a pistol?

  1. #1
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    showing a pistol?

    ok ive looked for the last hour, and this is really bugging me.. i had my SR9 in my holster and i was beside my house on the street, he asked me to see it. i pulled it out of my holster while aiming at the ground. was fully loaded but none in the chamber. he said its brandishing a fire arm and is illegle. is that true? give me the low down if you could.. and i DO have my concealed pistol permit.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Who is 'he' and why would you unholster it on the street?

    Look up RCW 9.41.270
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    Definition of BRANDISH

    transitive verb
    1
    : to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
    2
    : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

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    i was next to 2 cars working on 1 of them, and HE"" being one of the guys helping me asked to c it. i was NOT waiveing it around or shakeing it, pulled it out, put it back in. took maybe 20 seconds if that..

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    RCW 9.41.270
    Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm Unlawful carrying or handling Penalty Exceptions.

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

    (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

    (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

    (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

    (d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

    (e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.

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    Omg . . .

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    The fellow who asked to see the weapon then accused you of "brandishing" when you drew the firearm? "Brandishing" is not a term that is defined under the RCWs. See the above cite of .270, then find a different group of folks to hang out with, he is an idiot IMO. Myself I would not remove my lawfully carried self-defense firearm on a public street without a pressing need to defend myself or others, but I also do not consider doing so rising to the level of a violation of .270, without some other factors involved. Your opinion and mileage may vary.

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    Thanks for the info guys, i appreciate it! and its not going to happen again.. the reason i did show it was because i just bought it. fired for the first time today. anyways, thanks again guys/girls :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RugerSR9 View Post
    Thanks for the info guys, i appreciate it! and its not going to happen again.. the reason i did show it was because i just bought it. fired for the first time today. anyways, thanks again guys/girls :-)
    I wasn't there, and I only have the details you've offered. That said, I would also suggest having a much better reason for drawing under those circumstances. In addition, are we to understand you were carrying a new firearm you've never even shot before?

  10. #10
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    As a general rule nobody handles my firearms but me. People can see it just fine from the holster.
    And as Aktion mentioned it's is not a good idea to rely on a weapon that
    A: Has not been proven
    and
    B: You may be unfamiliar with.
    Not saying that is what you did but if it is well, there you go.
    Last edited by decklin; 01-25-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Sorry to ask a follow up questions but this goes along with a question I have had for a while. Last time I had a doctors appointment in Seattle I knew Vergina Mason has a no weapons s policy and because I would he getting X-rays I decided to leave my gun in my car. I took my gun still inside my holster off in my car but when I was getting ready to leave I stood just outside my car and put my gun (still in its holster) back on my belt. If my gun was still in the holster was it brandishing?
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  12. #12
    Regular Member Elimsitna's Avatar
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    I am also curious on others opinion of fire suppressor's question. I always assuming it is "Unlawful carrying or handling" so I always do a double check to make sure it is unlike I am spotted when I need to remove/equip my holstered weapon.
    I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested, I'd like to think that if I was I would pass,
    Look at the tested and think "there but for the grace go on," I might be a coward... I'm afraid of what I might find out.

  13. #13
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    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    As Big Dave pointed out in another thread the totality of the facts make the case. Rearming after being in a no weapon zone, would in my opinion not be an act rising to the level of a .270 violation, the Police and District Attorney at the event will also factor in. Myself it seems a reasonable act, with a proximate reasonable cause. Wasn't there a case over in Yakima of a man arming up in a bank parking lot that basically boiled down to "it was a reasonable act"and not enough for a .270 conviction, unlike the jury trial of the fellow outside the pizza joint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aktion View Post
    I wasn't there, and I only have the details you've offered. That said, I would also suggest having a much better reason for drawing under those circumstances. In addition, are we to understand you were carrying a new firearm you've never even shot before?
    actually, i have fired glocks alot, never thought if getting a pistol. ruger was a GREAT choice for a first start. before the incident(about 2 hours before) i shot around 1K rounds through the chamber to get used to the pistol and the conditions they have. never once locked up on me. after about the 5th clip i got very accurate with it.

    And for the other comment about other people seeing it, i live in a secluded neighborhood. he did not touch my fire arm, nor did i offer him to. just a visual.

    Also, with the other question, i take my pistol off every day i get to work and lock the gun in the glove box (locked) and the clip in the center consul. but i have to get out of my car to do so.. its not brandishing the fire arm unless you waive it around (so far i know) and with the reply of the WRC(i think) rules, to pull a fire arm out in an aggressive behavior is illegal. i think an officer would understand if someone called and he found out the story. i think you will be ok. :-) but if anyone else has an opinion i would love to know!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    we are starting to need a glossary , "brandishing" is not a recognized legal term, I try to use the applicable RCW as a reference to any discussion of legal/illegal to avoid confusion, the internet already takes away so many levels of the conversation.

  16. #16
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugerSR9 View Post
    actually, i have fired glocks alot, never thought if getting a pistol. ruger was a GREAT choice for a first start. before the incident(about 2 hours before) i shot around 1K rounds through the chamber to get used to the pistol and the conditions they have. never once locked up on me. after about the 5th clip i got very accurate with it.

    And for the other comment about other people seeing it, i live in a secluded neighborhood. he did not touch my fire arm, nor did i offer him to. just a visual.

    Also, with the other question, i take my pistol off every day i get to work and lock the gun in the glove box (locked) and the clip in the center consul. but i have to get out of my car to do so.. its not brandishing the fire arm unless you waive it around (so far i know) and with the reply of the WRC(i think) rules, to pull a fire arm out in an aggressive behavior is illegal. i think an officer would understand if someone called and he found out the story. i think you will be ok. :-) but if anyone else has an opinion i would love to know!
    Obviously, as others have said, its the totality of the circumstances that must be taken into account in a court of law. Keeping that in mind, its NOT the totality of the circumstances that could get you arrested, charged and run through the court ringer.

    I suggest, the very fact you are asking this question says you have a nag that what you did may have touched a precarious legal line that you are not totally comfortable with. Did the totality of YOUR circumstances border on a .270 charge? Given the facts as you stated them, I would agree with others and say, not likely, especially if the very person you were showing the firearm to was not threatened.

    In total, I would say you took a small risk that really was not necessary in any way, as you could have easily stepped into your house or garage and done the exact same thing with total legal confidence. Next time I would suggest that you listen to that nagging voice in the back of your head just a little longer, its there for a reason.
    Last edited by FMCDH; 01-26-2012 at 12:06 AM. Reason: spelling

  17. #17
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Personally if someone asked me to see my firearm on the street a simple NO! From what I gather the person asking to see or handle the gun was just an acquaintance and it was his loaded carry gun when handed to him, all of this adds up to TROUBLE.

    As to 9.41.270 (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

    To unholster to secure your firearm in your vehicle, lockbox or even at the court house would not fall into this category.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    my guns only come out of the holster to be cleaned, or go bang....never because someone (anyone) asked to look at them. If I go into the court house, (had jury duty last week) holster and all go in the lock box.

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    I am thinking BS..He shot 1K (one thousand) rounds through it 2 hours before this happened? BS
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 01-26-2012 at 01:06 AM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    I am thinking BS..He shot 1K (one thousand) rounds through it 2 hours before this happened? BS
    yeah, who the hell blows that much $$$ in ammo on a ruger anyway????


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  21. #21
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Maybe there should be a test to get a firearm.

    Question 1) Are you smart enough not to unholster your firearm unless you are going to use it?
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  22. #22
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    I am thinking BS..He shot 1K (one thousand) rounds through it 2 hours before this happened? BS
    That's a whole lot of shooting in 2 hours, is it an automatic! Just loading that many rounds in 2 hours is a feat.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdave View Post
    that's a whole lot of shooting in 2 hours, is it an automatic! Just loading that many rounds in 2 hours is a feat.
    lol
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member G30Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugerSR9 View Post
    actually, i have fired glocks alot, never thought if getting a pistol. ruger was a GREAT choice for a first start. before the incident(about 2 hours before) i shot around 1K rounds through the chamber to get used to the pistol and the conditions they have. never once locked up on me.
    This is not directed at the OP but rather those who really need to learn reading comprehension. He said he shot 1K rounds 2 hours BEFORE the incident occured. Who knows, he could have been at the range for hours.
    Last edited by G30Mike; 01-26-2012 at 06:39 AM.
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    Thumbs up

    I associate with firearms enthusiasts as such on occasion some have wanted to see my sidearm out of it's holster. in such cases i usually take them to an area out of general view(indoors) on private property. if they just want to see it i do so by holding it in my hand, if they want to hold it i drop the magazine and clear it before i safety it and hand it to them. it's all about being responsible and smart.

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