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Thread: Legally carrying yet arrested anyway

  1. #1
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    Legally carrying yet arrested anyway

    Virginia Law, Section 18.2-308B10, allows a person to carry a gun in the glove compartment of his/her vehicle WITHOUT the need for a concealed carry permit. This law took effect July 1, 2010; prior to that, one had to keep the gun in plain sight in a vehicle, e.g. on the seat or dashboard. The author of the law said the unambiguous intent of the state legislators, and of Gov. McDonnell, was to allow the transit of a pistol in an unlocked glove compartment. Twice the governor sent the law back for modification after Democrats tried to change the law to require the glove compartment to be locked.

    My son was arrested in October 2011 for carrying his legally owned pistol in the unlocked glove compartment of his car. To add insult to injury, his car was impounded...costing him over $300 to get it released..., he was held in handcuffs for around 2 hours, and, of course, his gun was confiscated. We hired a very good attorney who got the Loudoun County Commonwealth Attorney to decide to nolle pros the case. Not good enough.

    My son did not break the law, the arrest has not been expunged from his record, and he is out over $2300 to say nothing of the tremendous embarrassment, bother, loss of work, missed school, etc. that this has caused...for NOT breaking Virginia Law. This incident occurred not 20 miles from NRA headquarters in Fairfax, VA, to boot. Therefore, we want to sue Loudoun County to get his name cleared (expungement of the charges), to get attorney and impound fees refunded, to get a damages award (how else will government agencies learn), to get an apology from the arresting officer, and to get the Loudoun County Sheriff's Department to issue a statement stating it will provide training for its officers so they do not falsely arrest citizens for carrying weapons in unlocked glove compartments.

    Any ideas on where I can get pro bono or contingency representation? This kind of flouting of the law must be stopped. If something as obvious as this is allowed to continue, why bother having organizations defending the rights of citizens to legally carry a weapon?

  2. #2
    Regular Member SGB's Avatar
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    Have yoy contacted http://vcdl.org/?
    "It's easier to avoid conflict than it is to survive it" - SGB

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    There is an attorney on this site (User) who has some experience in this area of the law. (Best gun lawyer I know of.) His website is http://www.virginialegaldefense.com
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Virginia Law 15.2-915C Provides Remedies for Action taken in Bad Faith which are in Conflict with The Laws of The Commonwealth of Virginia Concerning Firearm-related Matters.

    Loudon County Sheriffs' Office CANNOT Regulate in Firearm Matters any more Stringent than what is Provided for under Virginia Commonwealth Law.
    Last edited by aadvark; 01-26-2012 at 06:49 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Go get 'em. This sort of behavior has no place in our commonwealth.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    There is an attorney on this site (User) who has some experience in this area of the law. (Best gun lawyer I know of.) His website is http://www.virginialegaldefense.com
    I second this, contact user, best dam gun lawyer inVa.

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    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

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    Regular Member HighFlyingA380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Go get 'em. This sort of behavior has no place in our commonwealth.
    Not only in Virginia, but in our country. Go after everything possible. Agencies and LEOs need to learn that they cannot push us around, and it will not be tolerated. Good luck!!!
    Last edited by HighFlyingA380; 01-26-2012 at 10:28 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by FormerNY'er View Post
    Virginia Law, Section 18.2-308B10, allows a person to carry a gun in the glove compartment...
    This is an abomination of the U.S. Constitution and the Virginia State Legislature.

    Here in Colorado, I carry my firearm on my hip every where I go. I did NOT spend my life protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States of America only to see our legislatures watering away the rights I fought for, and for which four of my friends died.

    Colorado legislatures. Call me. I'm keeping a record. Those who don't call me, don't wan't to know. Do you REALLY think these 'erks have either a clue as to what's really going on or what needs to happen from here on out?

    PPbbss!

    Colorado, it's time we re-group. Let's get with it, and support what we're really all about.
    Haven't been a member of the NRA since 1991. Get a clue.

    "One of the best things about our Republic is that we're as free to have our own opinions as we are from having the opinions of others forced upon us."

  9. #9
    Regular Member lysander6's Avatar
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    Go get them, your efforts will save future gun owners from this kind of legal malfeasance. Cops do not know the law.

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    Regular Member JesterP99's Avatar
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    I am sorry this happened to your son, I would say that this is one of the OCer's biggest fears while dealing with LEOs and their rights to carry.

    Keep us updated on what happens. I would like to see this turn out in your favor. Hopefully it won't take too long to get a judgement and ruling on this case. Just let us know.

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    Why did the officer find the gun in the first place? Simple traffic stop doesn't give PC to search.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    I do have a question about how this happened......................

    How did the officer gain access to the glove compartment? Did the driver waive his rights and allow a warrantless search, or was there an arrest made before they searched the vehicle?

  13. #13
    Regular Member JTHunter's Avatar
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    This is why so many posts in many different forums (and on YouTube) advise you to NOT talk to the police any more than necessary. You should also do everything possible to limit your answers to the LEO's questions to "Yes" or "No".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    Have yoy contacted http://vcdl.org/?
    I did. A VCDL recommended lawyer represented my son and got the nolle pros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lysander6 View Post
    Go get them, your efforts will save future gun owners from this kind of legal malfeasance. Cops do not know the law.
    Often times they are bullies with a badge. I harbor no disrespect for police (I was in federal law enforcement for 20 years) but they are people that don't always know the law. I hope to set Loudoun County straight so no more law abiding citizens are falsely arrested for having a legal weapon in their vehicles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JesterP99 View Post
    I am sorry this happened to your son, I would say that this is one of the OCer's biggest fears while dealing with LEOs and their rights to carry.

    Keep us updated on what happens. I would like to see this turn out in your favor. Hopefully it won't take too long to get a judgement and ruling on this case. Just let us know.
    I have been advised by my son's excellent lawyer to wait until the nolle pros cannot be revoked (mid October) but I want to get this thing moving so that one second after that, we drop a suit on the police agency. I would be glad to keep you updated but can't guarantee that I'll remember to do so through this forum. If you have an address, website, email, phone#, whatever I will keep you posted.

  17. #17
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    I respect the job LEO's do, but one needs to worry about being falsely arrested, accused, or convicted. If you don't have the funds to hire top notch legal representation you are screwed. read about it all the time, I can't figure out why it needs to cost anything to clear your name when you've been falsely arrested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    How did the officer gain access to the glove compartment? Did the driver waive his rights and allow a warrantless search, or was there an arrest made before they searched the vehicle?
    He is inexperienced in dealing with cops. The officer was looking for drugs because he had worked a long day and his eyes were red. When her badgering didn't produce the intended effect, i.e. drugs in the car, she asked "You don't have anything you shouldn't in there [his car] do you?" To which he responded "No, you can check." Of course, this is the folly of youth but he knew he had nothing illegal so, he figured, why not cooperate with the cop? He has learned his lesson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    Why did the officer find the gun in the first place? Simple traffic stop doesn't give PC to search.
    The officer was looking for drugs because my son had worked a long day and his eyes were red. When her badgering didn't produce drugs in the car, she asked "You don't have anything you shouldn't in there [his car] do you?" To which he responded "No, you can check." He knew he had nothing illegal so why not cooperate with the cop? He has learned his lesson.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    There is an attorney on this site (User) who has some experience in this area of the law. (Best gun lawyer I know of.) His website is http://www.virginialegaldefense.com
    Thanks.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FormerNY'er View Post
    He is inexperienced in dealing with cops. The officer was looking for drugs because he had worked a long day and his eyes were red. When her badgering didn't produce the intended effect, i.e. drugs in the car, she asked "You don't have anything you shouldn't in there [his car] do you?" To which he responded "No, you can check." Of course, this is the folly of youth but he knew he had nothing illegal so, he figured, why not cooperate with the cop? He has learned his lesson.
    This is a product of a lifetime of brainwashing and conditioning. He did exactly as he was programmed to do, and the police know the programming, so they have no problem coercing the unwitting into giving up their rights. The officer is a criminal thug guilty of treason. This is the only way to see someone who actively attacks your freedom and looks for ways to circumvent it, as an incorrigible invader. If people took this perspective more often, we wouldn't be where we are today.

    That said, you DO have recourse even without an attorney. You will have to do your homework, but someone already posted this: "Virginia Law 15.2-915C Provides Remedies for Action taken in Bad Faith which are in Conflict with The Laws of The Commonwealth of Virginia Concerning Firearm-related Matters". What this means is you don't need an attorney (you actually never do if you comprehend the system) but instead you need to learn how the law really works. You have the LAWFUL right to pursue this matter, WITHOUT an attorney. I can't give you the proper advice regarding your state, but they have to provide you access to the courts, and as stated above, a method to remedy the situation. This is a common law matter, not a matter of legal statute, but you have a statute to back you up.

    See this page right here. http://webdev.courts.state.va.us/cgi...cfees_calc.cgi Also, your clerk of courts has to help you (they are public servants) with any of your filing needs. You have to remember that WE THE PEOPLE are the power in this country. NOT the judges, the lawyers, the courts, or anything else. WE are the sovereigns, and THEY are dispatched to uphold their duties by US. Man was created by the creator. Government was created by man. We are it's master. Learn up on common law, admiralty and maritime law, and you will see that YOU do still have the power, unless you give it away.

    If all that is too much for you, go hire an attorney, but don't expect them to always have your interests in mind. Try the one being recommended here, but remember they are subservient to the system, not to you....even when you pay them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FormerNY'er View Post
    To which he responded "No, you can check." Of course, this is the folly of youth but he knew he had nothing illegal so, he figured, why not cooperate with the cop? He has learned his lesson.
    I bet he doesn't do that again!!
    And that line used by the cop is typical. Maybe send him over to the 'Flex Your Rights" site and make him watch the video

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    Welcome to the state where...,

    someone can be charged, tried, and convicted of breaking a law that does not exist!!!

    Just a few or so weeks ago, there was an article (don't remember which, where, what, and I'm not going to go looking for it, as my friends can well attest to, I do not have the necessary computer skills) in a newspaper about someone who contested the charge of failing to carry/show proof of insurance (for an automobile) while driving, or some such nonsense. He won his case because..., there is no such requirement in Virginia!!!

    Then someone started looking at other same such situations, and IIRC, there were other cases where others had been charged, tried and convicted of breaking a law that does not exist!!! Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

    Best of luck to you and your son, I hope you get all that you ask for, and remember, justice does not equate to fairness, be relentless.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

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    To Whomever it may Concern:

    In Addition to My Previous Aforementioned Post in This Forum, Virginia Commonwealth Law 18.2-308B Provides, in Pertinent, The Following:

    Except as Provided under J1 of This Code Section, This Section shall not Apply to * * * 10 Any Person who may Lawfully Possess a Firearm and is Carrying a Handgun while in a Personal, Private Motor Vehicle or Vessel and such Handgun is Secured in a Container or Compartment in The Vehicle or Vessel.

    Virginia Code 15.2-915 does NOT Apply under The Exception Listed under Virginia Commonwealth Law 18.2-308B(10) as that Code Section ONLY Applies to or Effects Loaded Long Guns in Motor Vehicles, and NOT to Handguns.

    Again..., The Mandate Contained under Virginia Commonwealth Law 15.2-915C is Clear, in that, a Violation of This Law within Virginia can Result in Legal Remedies, to Include: 1. Court Costs, 2. Expenses, and 3. Attorney Fees for a Violation of This Code Section.

    nothing under Virginia Law Prohibits Open Carry in Motor Vehicles either.

    aadvark

  25. #25
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    Then someone started looking at other same such situations, and IIRC, there were other cases where others had been charged, tried and convicted of breaking a law that does not exist!!! Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
    I find myself intensely curious about this. Every law I've ever seen includes at least a classification of the severity of the offense, even if the law doesn't spell out an exact punishment. One crime might be a misdemeanor, another is a felony, etc. But if you're found guilty of breaking a law that doesn't exist, how does the court know that the offense is a felony or misdemeanor or what-have-you? How does the court figure out what to sentence you to after being convicted?

    And could you challenge the sentence, on the grounds it exceeds the penalty specified in the law? To refute your claim, the court would have to come up with the law and...oops...

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