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Legally carrying yet arrested anyway

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
To which he responded "No, you can check." Of course, this is the folly of youth but he knew he had nothing illegal so, he figured, why not cooperate with the cop? He has learned his lesson.

I bet he doesn't do that again!!
And that line used by the cop is typical. Maybe send him over to the 'Flex Your Rights" site and make him watch the video
 

sidestreet

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
673
Location
, ,
Welcome to the state where...,

someone can be charged, tried, and convicted of breaking a law that does not exist!!!

Just a few or so weeks ago, there was an article (don't remember which, where, what, and I'm not going to go looking for it, as my friends can well attest to, I do not have the necessary computer skills) in a newspaper about someone who contested the charge of failing to carry/show proof of insurance (for an automobile) while driving, or some such nonsense. He won his case because..., there is no such requirement in Virginia!!!

Then someone started looking at other same such situations, and IIRC, there were other cases where others had been charged, tried and convicted of breaking a law that does not exist!!! Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Best of luck to you and your son, I hope you get all that you ask for, and remember, justice does not equate to fairness, be relentless.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
 

aadvark

Regular Member
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Aug 25, 2009
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, ,
To Whomever it may Concern:

In Addition to My Previous Aforementioned Post in This Forum, Virginia Commonwealth Law 18.2-308B Provides, in Pertinent, The Following:

Except as Provided under J1 of This Code Section, This Section shall not Apply to * * * 10 Any Person who may Lawfully Possess a Firearm and is Carrying a Handgun while in a Personal, Private Motor Vehicle or Vessel and such Handgun is Secured in a Container or Compartment in The Vehicle or Vessel.

Virginia Code 15.2-915 does NOT Apply under The Exception Listed under Virginia Commonwealth Law 18.2-308B(10) as that Code Section ONLY Applies to or Effects Loaded Long Guns in Motor Vehicles, and NOT to Handguns.

Again..., The Mandate Contained under Virginia Commonwealth Law 15.2-915C is Clear, in that, a Violation of This Law within Virginia can Result in Legal Remedies, to Include: 1. Court Costs, 2. Expenses, and 3. Attorney Fees for a Violation of This Code Section.

nothing under Virginia Law Prohibits Open Carry in Motor Vehicles either.

aadvark
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Then someone started looking at other same such situations, and IIRC, there were other cases where others had been charged, tried and convicted of breaking a law that does not exist!!! Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I find myself intensely curious about this. Every law I've ever seen includes at least a classification of the severity of the offense, even if the law doesn't spell out an exact punishment. One crime might be a misdemeanor, another is a felony, etc. But if you're found guilty of breaking a law that doesn't exist, how does the court know that the offense is a felony or misdemeanor or what-have-you? How does the court figure out what to sentence you to after being convicted?

And could you challenge the sentence, on the grounds it exceeds the penalty specified in the law? To refute your claim, the court would have to come up with the law and...oops...
 

sidestreet

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
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, ,
Okay Difdi...,

I find myself intensely curious about this. Every law I've ever seen includes at least a classification of the severity of the offense, even if the law doesn't spell out an exact punishment. One crime might be a misdemeanor, another is a felony, etc. But if you're found guilty of breaking a law that doesn't exist, how does the court know that the offense is a felony or misdemeanor or what-have-you? How does the court figure out what to sentence you to after being convicted?

And could you challenge the sentence, on the grounds it exceeds the penalty specified in the law? To refute your claim, the court would have to come up with the law and...oops...

I'm going to do something for you that I've never done before. I'm going to attempt to get you links to the articles that I was speaking of and one that I saw on www.injusticeeverywhere.com concerning NYC having to shell out around 15 million for continuing to charge, try, and convict people of loitering after the law was repealed in 2010, but I'm not going to do it right now, cause I don't rally know how, but for you, I'm a fixin' to learn.

You've got good questions, trouble is, they really need to be directed at the states, the courts, and the judges. Last time I checked they weren't very receptive to questions about their illegal behaviors. I'm going to say that my perspective is that the "Justice" system does pretty much whatever it wants to as long as no one bucks them on it. I doubt very seriously if the very vast majority of those convicted had any real legal representation, for whatever reason, be it financial or other. Now witness the Surry case with Skidmark. Were it not for the a number of things in Skid's favor, things could have been much worse than they were, and some of the things were that he had excellent legal representation by User, a member here, great support financially and morally from this OC community, and just as important, the will to stand up to government corruption and abuse, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE WAS INNOCENT!!!

I'll get those links for you, Difdi, because..., I'm relentless.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
I'm going to do something for you that I've never done before. I'm going to attempt to get you links to the articles that I was speaking of and one that I saw on www.injusticeeverywhere.com concerning NYC having to shell out around 15 million for continuing to charge, try, and convict people of loitering after the law was repealed in 2010, but I'm not going to do it right now, cause I don't rally know how, but for you, I'm a fixin' to learn.

You've got good questions, trouble is, they really need to be directed at the states, the courts, and the judges. Last time I checked they weren't very receptive to questions about their illegal behaviors. I'm going to say that my perspective is that the "Justice" system does pretty much whatever it wants to as long as no one bucks them on it. I doubt very seriously if the very vast majority of those convicted had any real legal representation, for whatever reason, be it financial or other. Now witness the Surry case with Skidmark. Were it not for the a number of things in Skid's favor, things could have been much worse than they were, and some of the things were that he had excellent legal representation by User, a member here, great support financially and morally from this OC community, and just as important, the will to stand up to government corruption and abuse, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE WAS INNOCENT!!!

I'll get those links for you, Difdi, because..., I'm relentless.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

In Skid's case, he was falsely accused by a liar and a coward. He claimed he was a combat veteran and that was disproved when it came out he was a librarian in Iraq and not on the front lines. He claimed in court, under oath that he was never as scared in Iraq as he was when Skid pointed his finger.

Sorry, but if anyone has ever seen Skid, they would immediately know the man was lying. Santa Clause and Skid could be (and probably are) twins.

User did a great job considering all the screw ups that were committed by the Surry CA and his minions. I just hope Skid sues the heck out of Surry and Poindexter for malicious prosecution!

As sidestreet’s official research assistant, I will endeavor to find his article.
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
As promissed

I'm going to do something for you that I've never done before. I'm going to attempt to get you links to the articles that I was speaking of and one that I saw on www.injusticeeverywhere.com concerning NYC having to shell out around 15 million for continuing to charge, try, and convict people of loitering after the law was repealed in 2010, but I'm not going to do it right now, cause I don't rally know how, but for you, I'm a fixin' to learn.

You've got good questions, trouble is, they really need to be directed at the states, the courts, and the judges. Last time I checked they weren't very receptive to questions about their illegal behaviors. I'm going to say that my perspective is that the "Justice" system does pretty much whatever it wants to as long as no one bucks them on it. I doubt very seriously if the very vast majority of those convicted had any real legal representation, for whatever reason, be it financial or other. Now witness the Surry case with Skidmark. Were it not for the a number of things in Skid's favor, things could have been much worse than they were, and some of the things were that he had excellent legal representation by User, a member here, great support financially and morally from this OC community, and just as important, the will to stand up to government corruption and abuse, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE WAS INNOCENT!!!

I'll get those links for you, Difdi, because..., I'm relentless.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.



As promised, here is just one of the articles about NYC having to pay $15 Million dollars for wrongful prosecution for loitering.

http://www.bronxdefenders.org/press/new-york-city-pay-15-million-damages-illegal-loitering-charges

Google NYC pays $15 Million for loitering and there are other articles.
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
As promised, here is just one of the articles about NYC having to pay $15 Million dollars for wrongful prosecution for loitering.

http://www.bronxdefenders.org/press/new-york-city-pay-15-million-damages-illegal-loitering-charges

Google NYC pays $15 Million for loitering and there are other articles.

So IF each and every one of the 22000 class members actually do complete and return the required form and are ultimately ruled to be eligible they will each get approx $681.00 - the attorneys cut! ($15,000,000 / 22,000 class members)
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
My son was arrested in October 2011 for carrying his legally owned pistol in the unlocked glove compartment of his car. To add insult to injury, his car was impounded...costing him over $300 to get it released..., he was held in handcuffs for around 2 hours, and, of course, his gun was confiscated. We hired a very good attorney who got the Loudoun County Commonwealth Attorney to decide to nolle pros the case. Not good enough.

My son did not break the law, the arrest has not been expunged from his record, and he is out over $2300 to say nothing of the tremendous embarrassment, bother, loss of work, missed school, etc. that this has caused...for NOT breaking Virginia Law.

Um, for starters, the police in virginia are NOT allowed to arrest anyone for misdemeanors like concealed carry without a license - they may only issue summonses. Get an attorney and sue for damages.
 

sidestreet

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
673
Location
, ,
Thank you, Tazdad...,

he's ever on the ball..., relentless too, like me, and THAT's why I pay him the BIG BUCKS!!! Now let's get busy on that Richmond Times Disgrace article on that failing to produce proof of insurance thing, shall we? :)

sidestreet,

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Nag, nag, nag

he's ever on the ball..., relentless too, like me, and THAT's why I pay him the BIG BUCKS!!! Now let's get busy on that Richmond Times Disgrace article on that failing to produce proof of insurance thing, shall we? :)

sidestreet,

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless

Some people are just never happy!

Here are a few articles about just how stupid the police and courts are:

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/12/va-drivers-wrongly-charged-under-insurance-law
Attorneys who reviewed the statute agreed it does not criminalize failure to have an insurance card in your car.
"Not having proof of insurance is not an offense in Virginia. It's just incorrect," said G. Barton Chucker of Richmond, a traffic defense lawyer.

http://valawyersweekly.com/2011/12/19/a-charge-that’s-not-a-crime/

The General Assembly has debated the issue at least three times, but in each instance, a bill to require drivers to carry an insurance card or other proof of insurance has failed. Nonetheless, in several localities, drivers have been hit with hefty fines and court costs for failing to have proof of insurance, according to court records.

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-va-drivers-wrongfully-charged-20111227,0,7558609.story

“According to the Department of Motor Vehicle spokesperson, Katy Lloyd, drivers are only required to have insurance, but, aren’t required to provide proof. Still, the report indicates many drivers are ticketed in Richmond, Colonial Heights and Dinwiddie County. “

http://farmbureauadvantage.com/TheA...87/PageID/587/Auto-Insurance-Law-Misread.aspx

“When asked by the news source, one Richmond prosecutor reportedly indicated drivers charged with failure to show proof of insurance need only bring it to court, at which time the charge will be dismissed.

Never did find the RTD article. What next oh mighty slave driver ?
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
Some people are just never happy!

Here are a few articles about just how stupid the police and courts are:

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/12/va-drivers-wrongly-charged-under-insurance-law
Attorneys who reviewed the statute agreed it does not criminalize failure to have an insurance card in your car.
"Not having proof of insurance is not an offense in Virginia. It's just incorrect," said G. Barton Chucker of Richmond, a traffic defense lawyer.

http://valawyersweekly.com/2011/12/19/a-charge-that’s-not-a-crime/

The General Assembly has debated the issue at least three times, but in each instance, a bill to require drivers to carry an insurance card or other proof of insurance has failed. Nonetheless, in several localities, drivers have been hit with hefty fines and court costs for failing to have proof of insurance, according to court records.

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-va-drivers-wrongfully-charged-20111227,0,7558609.story

“According to the Department of Motor Vehicle spokesperson, Katy Lloyd, drivers are only required to have insurance, but, aren’t required to provide proof. Still, the report indicates many drivers are ticketed in Richmond, Colonial Heights and Dinwiddie County. “

http://farmbureauadvantage.com/TheA...87/PageID/587/Auto-Insurance-Law-Misread.aspx

“When asked by the news source, one Richmond prosecutor reportedly indicated drivers charged with failure to show proof of insurance need only bring it to court, at which time the charge will be dismissed.

Never did find the RTD article. What next oh mighty slave driver ?

They (corrupt prosecutors & police departments) count on people not knowing the law and make it a choice of pay for a non crime vs. pay more to prove you were robbed by them! :eek:

It never ceases to amaze me how rotten things have gotten in regards to the use of Police & Prosecutors to shakedown innocent citizens. I guess the tipping point began (in my state at least) when the prosecutors stopped being employees of the cities and became outsourced attorneys hired to do the bidding of the Police. This lead to them not caring if the charges brought were legal or not as they simply bill for the hours (it is to their advantage to seek fines/charges against everyone...its how they keep their jobs) law be damned. This country is in sad shape my friends.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
I second this, contact user, best dam gun lawyer inVa.

Sent using tapatalk

I third it: User's Profile. His website.

By the way, FormerNY'er, Mike's comment was superb: Sue them.

Yes, we tend to be a sue-happy nation, and there's a stigma against it, but doggone it, you can either choose to allow you and your family to be out $2,300+ because of improper procedure on the part of the police, or you can go after them to restore both your money as well as your son's record.
 
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adam_SDOCsiouxfalls

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
67
Location
Sioux Falls,SD
Are you a member of the NRA?

I know in cert. situations if you are a member of the NRA, They have a team that takes care of stuff like this. I would contact them and see what they might be able to do for your son. The NRA has the knowlage and pull to take care of things like this... Good luck keep me updated.
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
Location
Richmond, VA
In Skid's case, he was falsely accused by a liar and a coward. He claimed he was a combat veteran and that was disproved when it came out he was a librarian in Iraq and not on the front lines. He claimed in court, under oath that he was never as scared in Iraq as he was when Skid pointed his finger.

Sounds like this FOBBIT was telling the truth.

I guess a man with an actual firearm is a lot more threatening then a collection of documents at Doha. :p
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
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Newport News, Virginia, USA
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