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Thread: "An armed society is a peacful one."

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    "An armed society is a peacful one."

    Howdy Folks,
    I am from down here in southern oregon on the coast. I am 18 years old and just started OCing a few days ago. Now i have been living on my own and raising a kid since i was 16. I would say i personally think i am very mature enough too OC. I carry a 9mm semi auto on me in a black uncle mikes hip holster. The last few days around town i have been very surprised when watching everyones reactions too my firearm. Most people do not even notice, for i just go about my own business and do not make it a big deal. The few people that do notice are all differnt. You have your people that give you a nasty look, the ones who do nothing at all, and the ones that make a hurry too get out of your way. . . . . Besides the one older gentleman who talked too me today which leads too my story.

    So today i ran a few towns over too pick up a load of hay for my horses. On my side like always i had my 9mm. On the way back too home i stopped at our local quick stop called circle k. When i was inside i was going about my own business when i noticed an older gentleman giving me a curious look. I smiled and said hi and went about my shopping. When i got in line he happend too get in directly behind me. He said hello and we started too talk. He asked me. .. Have you ever heard the saying "An Armed Society Is A Peaceful One" i said no. We talked a little more and i told him that is why i OC'd. I told him how people i know are against it. Like i said too him, it does not hurt anyone i go about my business as i normally would and if for whatever reason i needed it its there. There is only good that comes from it in my eyes he agreed the same and i learned he carried concealed.

    Now ever since i talked too that nice old man the saying he told me has stuck in my mind. "An Armed Society Is a Peaceful One." This is so true. If more people OC'd enough too where there was at least one armed citizen in every store and around town the criminals would be too scared too make a problem. I think this saying just fits perfectly into the cause we are all joined together in. Just thought i would share.

    Thank you. . Zach

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    Regular Member Contrarian's Avatar
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    Red face "Armed Society"

    The quote he mentioned was written by Robert Heinlein, s-f writer.

    The full quote is, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

    THe book it's from is "Beyond This Horizon", written in 1942.

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrarian View Post
    The quote he mentioned was written by Robert Heinlein, s-f writer.

    The full quote is, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

    THe book it's from is "Beyond This Horizon", written in 1942.
    I never heard this either. It is interesting but I think it makes an assumption on behavior. Wasn't there a time when everyone was armed? There were still crimes, right?
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    It all depends on the point of view; some people see it as though it means others must be scared of their actions.
    Others see the quote as meaning "that other guy can't be a bully when it means I possess the means to defend myself."

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Pardon, but... call me names... mock me, ? I left the third grade too many years ago to even want to think about... However...
    Don't I have the same means, the same weapons at hand as he? Can I not call him names? mock him in turn?

    It's been said that human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it. (The Gun is Civilization takes that thought much further.)


    Only an idiot or a fool would draw a deadly weapon for such slights as you suggest. Human nature is to believe that others would do as one himself thinks or fears he might; that being the case, the idea that someone might behave as you suggest is the furthest thing from my mind. I'm reminded of Dear Abby's reply, something along the lines of "Only those who are inclined to hide in the bedroom closet think to look for someone hiding there."


    I think better of myself, and in turn I think better of others.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 02-20-2012 at 03:39 PM.

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    I have to say I have never seen a more polite group of people than when I am at a gun show. Everyone is all 'please and thank you and excuse me'. So the Maxim holds in my experience (quoted correctly).
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wow!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    But he can. The bully can call you all sorts of names. Mock you. Harass you. Even assault you with less than deadly force, and you can't just draw your gun and fire.
    Please feel free to Mock me and Harass me too, BUT If you assult me with less than deadly force,
    I WILL draw my Gun and use it to
    smack you upside your big stupid head, with less than deadly force!!! Ill do that untill you realize that you should stop...

    I cant fathom why anybody would think that they could freely assault someone, but
    since that particular someone is carrying a gun, that someone couldnt fight back.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Please feel free to Mock me and Harass me too, BUT If you assult me with less than deadly force,
    I WILL draw my Gun and use it to
    smack you upside your big stupid head, with less than deadly force!!! Ill do that untill you realize that you should stop...

    I cant fathom why anybody would think that they could freely assault someone, but
    since that particular someone is carrying a gun, that someone couldnt fight back.
    For non-lethal assaults, I carry a feisty girlfriend with pepper spray.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Pistol whipping someone in the head would be deadly force.
    I wouldnt pistol whip you,,, I would smack you,,, And I would be polite while I smacked you, But
    I would smack you as often as needed to stop your assault against me.
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 02-20-2012 at 06:53 PM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Pistol whipping someone in the head would be deadly force.
    Really? So instead of cops shooting people they should just hit them with the gun? Pistols have some magic property that another heavy object such as a police baton doesn't have? Cops use the fear of their life during a shooting to justify shooting someone who may be unarmed? Gerald Ung shot someone who may or may not have just whooped his butt bit the jury felt it was justified.

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    Regular Member Elimsitna's Avatar
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    While the thought of using a gun only in a non-lethal capacity to beat on someone is hilarious, and would certainly make a point to your assailant...
    I would make a similar point to Raven....
    That wielding a gun as a "rock" is a 'Threat of lethal force' and would cause escalation. If the guy started the fight with a knife, almost everyone here would agree he would get shot. Just cause a broadsword can be used as a bat for non-lethal doesn't mean others see it as anything less then a sword.
    So pulling your gun is asking for the other guy to escalate/retreat, but by continuing the force-exchange you're causing a third party who may enter to see a lethal force scenario.

    Just $0.02
    I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested, I'd like to think that if I was I would pass,
    Look at the tested and think "there but for the grace go on," I might be a coward... I'm afraid of what I might find out.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Folks, if I get "assaulted" by someone who knows I have a firearm and does it anyway, is going to scare teh sh!t out of me. The issue is fearing for your life, someone attacking an armed citizen is either crazy or so out of control that he will likely not stop at non-lethal force.

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    If I were to be assaulted while OCing I would be scared that they would be after my gun. After all, why would you assault someone that you know is armed unless you are after their weapon or want to cause serious bodily harm?

    Note that I'm not talking about a woman slapping you or some other relatively minor thing, but a full up fight.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 02-22-2012 at 02:38 PM.

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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    Some "full-on" fights can strictly remain just that... a fistfight. Whether you are getting your ass whooped, or are doing the whooping, there is no reason to pull a gun... unless... they pull a knife, broken bottle, chair, or they go for your/their gun, thereby escalating the threat level. As soon as something other than a fist, foot, or body part comes into play, the level of life endangering threat goes up, respond accordingly.
    Be safe, be prepared, and carry on!

    Alle Ihre Basisstation jetzt zu uns gehören

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Some "full-on" fights can strictly remain just that... a fistfight. Whether you are getting your ass whooped, or are doing the whooping, there is no reason to pull a gun... unless... they pull a knife, broken bottle, chair, or they go for your/their gun, thereby escalating the threat level. As soon as something other than a fist, foot, or body part comes into play, the level of life endangering threat goes up, respond accordingly.
    So, I can't say I was in fear for my life just because the assailant is using his fists to pummel me to death? I disagree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal View Post
    I never heard this either. It is interesting but I think it makes an assumption on behavior. Wasn't there a time when everyone was armed? There were still crimes, right?
    Fewer, and there was still violence. Yet that is when manners were made and the loss in manners directly corresponds with the loss of arms and the right to duel.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Some "full-on" fights can strictly remain just that... a fistfight. Whether you are getting your ass whooped, or are doing the whooping, there is no reason to pull a gun... unless... they pull a knife, broken bottle, chair, or they go for your/their gun, thereby escalating the threat level. As soon as something other than a fist, foot, or body part comes into play, the level of life endangering threat goes up, respond accordingly.
    You would take the risk of getting knocked out and your attacker gaining control of your weapon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal View Post
    I never heard this either. It is interesting but I think it makes an assumption on behavior. Wasn't there a time when everyone was armed? There were still crimes, right?
    The point of the quote isn't that a society is crime free that is fully armed. The only people foolish enough to perpetrate crimes in the open in an unashamedly armed society are sociopaths and the insane (or those temporarily insane through drugs/alcohol). However, those types are never stopped from perpetrating crimes by anything, by definition. There are a large swath of "undecideds" though, to whom the quote is quite relevant. Talking about the guy who thinks hitting up a liquor store is more profitable than working, but stops short when everybody in the store is armed, because he then knows the odds. It's not profitable to die, after all. Hence, where he walked in to cause bad times, he then either exits thusly or becomes quite polite and does no crime, and we find then that the wheels of gentile society are oiled.

    Really, getting down to it, one of the reasons I OC is precisely because of the sociopaths and insane, as well as being a passive crime preventer for the undecideds. The folks who consider crime in my vicinity who fall into neither category of insane nor sociopath have thus far, apparently from a lack of any crimes in my vicinity, chosen a different path once they realized I was armed.

    I believe that's the spirit of the quote.

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Some "full-on" fights can strictly remain just that... a fistfight. Whether you are getting your ass whooped, or are doing the whooping, there is no reason to pull a gun... unless... they pull a knife, broken bottle, chair, or they go for your/their gun, thereby escalating the threat level. As soon as something other than a fist, foot, or body part comes into play, the level of life endangering threat goes up, respond accordingly.
    You seem to be forgetting the "disparity of force" part of this thing. If two men of equal ability begin to fist fight, either one introducing a weapon into the deal would be seriously escalating the level of force and become the overall aggressor - regardless of who actually punched first. They each have a, more or less, equal opportunity to injure each other or to prevail otherwise.

    But if that initial aggressor was larger, stronger, more able than the person he/she assaulted, we have a whole different dynamic. The stronger/larger person could quite easily cause great bodily harm or death to the less able victim. For that victim to draw a gun in that situation, there is only a matter of self defense.

    Now, realize that this is not always clear in the heat of the moment, and there are endless variations possible, which is why a grand jury or coroner's jury may well be required to sift the evidence and decide that after the fact.

    This is why the gun is considered the "equalizer." No, it's not perfect... but it most certainly does help.

    And, as one who carries a gun, I am constantly reminded to be even more polite, courteous and patient than even my ordinary nature might cause me to be. I am aware at all times that I have no right to impose myself or be unpleasant just because I am armed. I have found that the most polite and reasonable people around me are the ordinary men and women who carry. It can't be just a coincidence after all these years.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Some "full-on" fights can strictly remain just that... a fistfight. Whether you are getting your ass whooped, or are doing the whooping, there is no reason to pull a gun... unless... they pull a knife, broken bottle, chair, or they go for your/their gun, thereby escalating the threat level. As soon as something other than a fist, foot, or body part comes into play, the level of life endangering threat goes up, respond accordingly.
    Only if you agree to settle whatever dispute there is by fisty cuffs and agree that the victor gets to decide your fate. In my case I would likely not agree to such terms and use every tool at my disposal to dissuade such a perpetrator from inflicting violence upon me.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member AAriondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOD View Post
    Some "full-on" fights can strictly remain just that... a fistfight. Whether you are getting your ass whooped, or are doing the whooping, there is no reason to pull a gun... unless... they pull a knife, broken bottle, chair, or they go for your/their gun, thereby escalating the threat level. As soon as something other than a fist, foot, or body part comes into play, the level of life endangering threat goes up, respond accordingly.
    Just remember though, if someone is attacking you and you are in fear for your life, you have the rite to protect yourself by any means.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wow?

    Quote Originally Posted by XXXXXXXXXX View Post
    Does law permit you to use your weapon when you are in danger ?




    Pinellas County Lawyer

    You are a lawyer?
    You ask that question?
    You are serious?

    remove your address from your location. Is that your real name? change that too...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Mamaliberty said And, as one who carries a gun, I am constantly reminded to be even more polite, courteous and patient than even my ordinary nature might cause me to be. I am aware at all times that I have no right to impose myself or be unpleasant just because I am armed. I have found that the most polite and reasonable people around me are the ordinary men and women who carry. It can't be just a coincidence after all these years.

    THIS is well said and exactly the way I feel.

    Aariondo said Just remember though, if someone is attacking you and you are in fear for your life, you have the rite to protect yourself by any means.

    No, I don't think so. Not in every State. Some places require you to "run and hide". Not so in Washington State, we get to "Stand our ground"
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    No, I don't think so. Not in every State. Some places require you to "run and hide". Not so in Washington State, we get to "Stand our ground"
    You would most certainly have the RIGHT to defend yourself. That right is yours by the virtue of your being alive. The "state" does not create that right, and can't legitimately deny it.

    But it certainly can do so _illegitimately_. I often wonder why anyone is willing to live in such a place.... Why would anyone agree to live where the state "required" you to be a helpless victim? Why do people tolerate that?

    Legitimacy does not come from the "state," but from life. If you give that power to the "state," just what would you be complaining about? sigh

    [Please note: the "you" is rhetorical, and not directed at any person in particular.]
    Last edited by MamaLiberty; 03-05-2012 at 11:04 AM.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Regular Member William Fisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    You seem to be forgetting the "disparity of force" part of this thing. If two men of equal ability begin to fist fight, either one introducing a weapon into the deal would be seriously escalating the level of force and become the overall aggressor - regardless of who actually punched first. They each have a, more or less, equal opportunity to injure each other or to prevail otherwise.

    But if that initial aggressor was larger, stronger, more able than the person he/she assaulted, we have a whole different dynamic. The stronger/larger person could quite easily cause great bodily harm or death to the less able victim. For that victim to draw a gun in that situation, there is only a matter of self defense.

    Now, realize that this is not always clear in the heat of the moment, and there are endless variations possible, which is why a grand jury or coroner's jury may well be required to sift the evidence and decide that after the fact.

    This is why the gun is considered the "equalizer." No, it's not perfect... but it most certainly does help.

    And, as one who carries a gun, I am constantly reminded to be even more polite, courteous and patient than even my ordinary nature might cause me to be. I am aware at all times that I have no right to impose myself or be unpleasant just because I am armed. I have found that the most polite and reasonable people around me are the ordinary men and women who carry. It can't be just a coincidence after all these years.
    I'll be 60 this year. That in and of it's self doesn't put me at much more danger then the average person. But I have COPD and other health problems. I can't walk 50 feet without being out of breath and having to rest a minute. Queen Elizabeth or Ron Paul could stomp my rear end into the ground. Therefore While I might not (nessasaraly) consider my life to be in jepordy, I would be in fear of great bodily harm and LIKELY use my firearm. I also am much politer when I carry than when I don't. There use to be places I avoided because I wasn't armed and those are the same places I now avoid because I am armed.
    Last edited by William Fisher; 03-05-2012 at 09:40 PM.

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