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Thread: Awesome LEO interaction in an adverse situation

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    Regular Member enigmamdw's Avatar
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    Awesome LEO interaction in an adverse situation

    Sorry folks, no travesties to report here. In fact the LEO had every right to be in an agitated suspicious state and they were not.

    I was away from my apartment, having allowed a good and trusted friend to stay the night at my place. I had all my weapons, except my OC weapon, put away in my safe.

    I got a call from said trusted friend saying, "I accidentally shot your M4". Of course I didn't believe him, but when he said he couldn't find where the bullet went, I started to come around. Naturally someone called the cops and they were soon there. (I'm still stuck away from the ship ATT) The police did find the hole and it was in the floor passing into the apartment below and striking but not passing through the wall below. Luckily the person in the room was unharmed.

    After the police entered and searched the place, they actually left the weapon in the safe. They never even place my friend in cuffs...

    I finally got speak to the OIC on scene after getting dispatch to understand my mounting apprehension of police crawling though my house without me there. But it turns out I had absolutely nothing to worry about.

    I got there. Clearly OC’ing and they don't even bat an eye. I know at least 4 of the 6 officers inhabiting my living room have noticed but not even a nod of recognition. I was well pleased with the non reaction.

    I safed the weapon in question, they never asked for indent, ran serials, and beyond asking my name they didn't ask for anything, while emphatically stating to me that they were going to make this as low key as they could possibly make it. A Class 1 Misdemeanor to exact.

    After I had assured the on scene OIC that the weapon and him were not going to be in each others vicinity for 24hrs they took the spent brass for processing and were gone within minutes. I'd like to tell you I got all their names to recognize them for a job well done, but I was a bit hyped up and that really didn't cross my mind till later.

    I will be making a phone call to the precinct to convey my thanks for their outstanding professionalism tomorrow.

  2. #2
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    just curious...
    how did 'trusted friend' get at your m4 if 'all weapons... except oc weapon... in safe'? unless it was unlocked or 'trusted friend' knows the combo?
    Last edited by mk4; 01-26-2012 at 11:16 PM.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Glad it went well with the cops but I'd be putting some lumps on said trusted friends head just before I showed him the door!

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Glad it went well with the cops but I'd be putting some lumps on said trusted friends head just before I showed him the door!
    ^^ This.

    I would have a serious sit-down with this friend. He needs to really understand the gravity of this situation. It could have been a lot worse.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    When I first started to carry I lived in a townhouse. I was always concerned that there was no really "safe" direction to point the gun when loading and chambering prior to holstering. So I was always extra-extra careful how I handled the weapon. Your friend is SERIOUSLY lucky. I'm sure he feels like an idiot as he should. Sounds like a great live and learn lesson.

    I would follow through in praising the officers, they really could have made things ugly. I assume your friend was visibly embarrassed and apologetic which I'm sure helped.

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    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    just curious...
    how did 'trusted friend' get at your m4 if 'all weapons... except oc weapon... in safe'? unless it was unlocked or 'trusted friend' knows the combo?
    +1...same question.

    BTW, a Class 1 Misdemeanor isn't trivial...confinement in jail for up to twelve months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both. Could be an expensive and confining experience for your friend who presumably is at least somewhat familiar with firearms if he knew the nomenclature of the rifle. And was the M4 already loaded while in the safe or did your friend do that as well before the ND?
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    +1...same question.

    BTW, a Class 1 Misdemeanor isn't trivial...confinement in jail for up to twelve months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both. Could be an expensive and confining experience for your friend who presumably is at least somewhat familiar with firearms if he knew the nomenclature of the rifle. And was the M4 already loaded while in the safe or did your friend do that as well before the ND?
    +1
    I also think he is going to show up in the criminal registry that flags when he is stopped for speeding. Also, be prepared to explain to a judge why he should be allowed to have a CHP, if he will even be allowed to have one for 5 years. Let me know if he buys any firearms in the future how long his delay is, and how long your delay is because your name is now associated with a crime gun. (All according to discussion on previous thread.)
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    I agree, a class-one misdemeanor is not "low key". They didn't charge him with a felony because they didn't have probable cause to do so, not because they wanted to keep it "low key". Depending on the exact charge, he may already be required to surrender his CHP if he has one. Do I need to suggest that your friend be encouraged to get a good attorney?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member enigmamdw's Avatar
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    +1 to all comments regarding "lumps and serious talks" and yes his demenor did help in his interaction with the officers.

    As far as weapons condition it was mag inserted bolt to the rear. It is my "duty" rifle and set that way for easy load and point. Slap the bolt release, push safety to fire. I know the safety advocates will say this is not the ideal or safe condition and I agree. It's not "safe" that way. It's nearly deadly which IMO is the purpose of a rifle.

    My safe is in the process of being replaced due a faulty lock (spinning cypher doesn't lock it) so all he had to do was turn the handle and open the safe. Said person had been alone in my apartment on numerous occasions without incident, whether that is due to proper (unauth.) handling of weapons or no handling of weapons at all I can't say.

    The police were saying that there was no official charge, just a summons. I don't know enough about legalees to understand if or what any difference there is between the two. The police were under the impression/conveying that no charges were going to brought against him for this.

    I'm not going to repost after the call to the chief as I'm not waiting for a response to the call after the fact.

    Another reason I'm convinced that this the charges aren't an issue is that When I asked if I should make a FOIA request they said there wasn't going to be anything to get. They weren't making a report on it. Again, I don't know how accurate that statement is and if it's compatible with recieving a summons but who knows.

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    just curious...
    how did 'trusted friend' get at your m4 if 'all weapons... except oc weapon... in safe'? unless it was unlocked or 'trusted friend' knows the combo?
    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    +1...same question.

    BTW, a Class 1 Misdemeanor isn't trivial...confinement in jail for up to twelve months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both. Could be an expensive and confining experience for your friend who presumably is at least somewhat familiar with firearms if he knew the nomenclature of the rifle. And was the M4 already loaded while in the safe or did your friend do that as well before the ND?
    Several uncomfortable gaps/contradictions that are due some explanation in the OP.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    1. A summons is an official charge..

    2. You can't FOIA criminal investigation material

    3. User is right and while he didn't mean it to be drumming up business, his contact information is in his profile.

  12. #12
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmamdw View Post
    ...
    My safe is in the process of being replaced due a faulty lock (spinning cypher doesn't lock it) so all he had to do was turn the handle and open the safe. Said person had been alone in my apartment on numerous occasions without incident, whether that is due to proper (unauth.) handling of weapons or no handling of weapons at all I can't say.
    ...
    ok, i see more clearly now.
    the guns were in the safe. they just weren't *secured* (from unauthorized access) in the safe.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by enigmamdw View Post
    My safe is in the process of being replaced due a faulty lock (spinning cypher doesn't lock it) so all he had to do was turn the handle and open the safe. Said person had been alone in my apartment on numerous occasions without incident, whether that is due to proper (unauth.) handling of weapons or no handling of weapons at all I can't say.
    I would seriously reconsider my determination of this friend as "trusted" if, when left alone in your private residence he thought that it was perfectly acceptable to open your private safe, rifle through (no pun intended) your personal things and discharge a weapon INSIDE your home.

    This "friend" of yours is an idiot and a menace on many levels. He certainly hasn't evinced a single iota of trustworthiness - and now you have made yourself suspect by referring to him as "trusted".

    Methinks your criteria could use a little revising.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    the guns were in the safe. they just weren't *secured* (from unauthorized access) in the safe.
    That's a pretty important piece of info you left out of your original post! So your guns were merely stored in a steel-lined closet.

    Any other pertinent data you'd like to share about this ND situation before it comes to light anyway?

    +++

    Follow-up: I see I was responding to MK4 who was clarifying the OP's original post. Apologies.
    Last edited by Felix; 01-27-2012 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Clarification
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  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Welllllll................I guess the most important piece of information is, Is this "Friend", male or female and if female, does she gave nice legs?

    Some minor Faux Pas can be overlooked you know!

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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmamdw View Post
    ...The police were saying that there was no official charge, just a summons. I don't know enough about legalees to understand if or what any difference there is between the two. The police were under the impression/conveying that no charges were going to brought against him for this.
    ...
    Another reason I'm convinced that this the charges aren't an issue is that When I asked if I should make a FOIA request they said there wasn't going to be anything to get. They weren't making a report on it. Again, I don't know how accurate that statement is and if it's compatible with recieving a summons but who knows.
    I hope y'all didn't swallow all that hogwash. Dude, a summons IS an "official charge". And you asked the cops whether or not to do an FOIA request? HAH! That's the funniest thing I've heard all week! Tell me, were you surprised at their answer?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  17. #17
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    no worries, Felix.

    be interesting if OP would post the statute listed on the friend's summons. that'll shed some light on just how 'adverse' the situation really is.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

  18. #18
    Regular Member enigmamdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    I would seriously reconsider my determination of this friend as "trusted" if, when left alone in your private residence he thought that it was perfectly acceptable to open your private safe, rifle through (no pun intended) your personal things and discharge a weapon INSIDE your home.

    This "friend" of yours is an idiot and a menace on many levels. He certainly hasn't evinced a single iota of trustworthiness - and now you have made yourself suspect by referring to him as "trusted".

    Methinks your criteria could use a little revising.
    Methinks, wylde, that within my statement, that you quoted, one would find that his 'trustworthiness' is under review. I didn't out and out say it, but it was certainly implied. Also notice "trusted" was not used in the aftermath. His past track record would actually indicate a certain level of built upon trust that has only just recently been rescinded. I appreciate the calling of my judgment into question. It's always good to relook at yourself and wonder what the interwebs would think of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap
    1. A summons is an official charge..

    2. You can't FOIA criminal investigation material

    3. User is right and while he didn't mean it to be drumming up business, his contact information is in his profile.
    Peter Nap,

    Thank you for the clarification. That makes things more clear. I have to admit, as I've never had any run in's with the law in any form, that my knowledge in this area is lacking and I thank you for input.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot
    Several uncomfortable gaps/contradictions that are due some explanation in the OP.

    Grapeshot,
    What contradictions/gaps do you see? I'm an open book so far as this situation goes. I posted not only to share an experience but also to elicit any offered advice and it can't be useful advice if the information isn't complete or I somehow misconstrued something.


    Law Code:

    Virginia law code 18.2-280

    18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

    A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    Seems to me that they may have misapllied this one as it was not in a public place. It was inside a residence on private property.

    User,

    Thanks. Yes I was surprised, as I didn't know any better.
    Last edited by enigmamdw; 01-27-2012 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Additional information

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    I keep wondering about the OP's potential liability given that apparently loaded weapons weren't properly secured (locked and secured when not under direct physical control is what I've always seen recommended). At the least I'd think that the landlord has cause to raise concerns about the situation and what happened.

  20. #20
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmamdw View Post
    It's always good to relook at yourself and wonder what the interwebs would think of you.
    Yeah, I don't trust any of them either.

    I'm pretty sure I know which friends to trust in my house when I'm not there - which is a rare event indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    I keep wondering about the OP's potential liability given that apparently loaded weapons weren't properly secured (locked and secured when not under direct physical control is what I've always seen recommended).
    Criminally? Probably none.

    Civilly? That would be up to the landlord whose floor/ceiling and wall now has a bullet hole in it. Also, the OP could find himself looking for a new residence if said landlord shortly becomes anti-gun and claims it's for "insurance reasons".
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    8.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

    A. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm in any street in a city or town, or in any place of public business or place of public gathering, and such conduct results in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. If such conduct does not result in bodily injury to another person, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    Might want to change the title to this thread to:

    Damn, this could be bad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Might want to change the title to this thread to:

    Damn, this could be bad!
    Would the same apply inside a private dwelling or would that be considered to not be a "public place"?

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdan01 View Post
    Would the same apply inside a private dwelling or would that be considered to not be a "public place"?
    Don't know. That's a question for Dan. Just being charged is BAD though and they can always amend it.
    What's the penalty for shooting at an occupied dwelling?

  24. #24
    Regular Member enigmamdw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Might want to change the title to this thread to:

    Damn, this could be bad!
    I think the title still applies. The adverse situation, as it clarifies, is just more so than originally thought.

    Out of interest and in response to the next post I looked into similar codes.

    Unfortunately there is a seperate code for that... and it's much worse. Which might begin to explain why the officers were talking about low key. As the more applicable law code is...

    § 18.2-279. Discharging firearms or missiles within or at building or dwelling house; penalty. If any person maliciously discharges a firearm within any building when occupied by one or more persons in such a manner as to endanger the life or lives of such person or persons, or maliciously shoots at, or maliciously throws any missile at or against any dwelling house or other building when occupied by one or more persons, whereby the life or lives of any such person or persons may be put in peril, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 4 felony. In the event of the death of any person, resulting from such malicious shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of murder in the second degree. However, if the homicide is willful, deliberate and premeditated, he is guilty of murder in the first degree.

    If any such act be done unlawfully, but not maliciously, the person so offending is guilty of a Class 6 felony; and, in the event of the death of any person resulting from such unlawful shooting or throwing, the person so offending is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. If any person willfully discharges a firearm within or shoots at any school building whether occupied or not, he is guilty of a Class 4 felony.

  25. #25
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    what statue is referenced on the summons?
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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