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Thread: Tonights (01-26-12) Militia and Police Committee Meeting

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Tonights (01-26-12) Militia and Police Committee Meeting

    Not much to tell really, all bills went our way unanimously.
    The Anti's were a little miffed that I put a GoPro camera on their side. They always sit so a post blocks them from me.

    Last edited by peter nap; 01-26-2012 at 11:01 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    From the VCDL Alert:

    1. Good night for gun owners!
    ****************************

    It was a good night for gun owners! Freedom won, tyranny lost.
    ************************************************** ****

    Tonight the House Militia, Police, and Public Safety subcommittee #1 met with the following results:

    BILLS THAT PASSED OUT OF SUBCOMMITTEE: HB 20, Delegate Wilt, protects the right of citizens to carry and transport firearms during a declared emergency (VCDL Strongly Supports)

    HB 22, Delegate Cole, requires localities to try to sell guns they are in possession of instead of just destroying them (VCDL Strongly Supports)

    HB 26, Delegate Cole, provides a $25 civil fine for failure to produce a CHP if demanded by a law enforcement officer (VCDL Strongly Supports)

    HB 375, Delegate Pogge, allows local government employees to be able to store their guns in their personal vehicles while at work (VCDL Strongly Supports)

    HB 940, Delegate Lingamfelter, repeals Virginia's One Handgun a Month law (VCDL Strongly Supports)

    BILLS THAT WERE KILLED BY THE SUBCOMMITTEE:

    HB 364, Delegate McClellan, perennial "gun show loophole" bill (VCDL Strongly Opposes)

    HB 458, Delegate BaCote, allows localities to ban guns in libraries (VCDL Strongly Opposes)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I was able to get off work early today and drive down for this meeting.

    I have to admit that I felt a little bit sorry for Delegate BaCote as she made her annual plea to allow localities to ban guns from public libraries. She delivered an earnest speech, tugging at all the heart-strings she could think of.

    She struck me as someone who sincerely desires for there to be no gun violence, no violence or crime of any kind in our public libraries, around our children and families. Who doesn't want that? She probably thinks "we" are all evil and cruel beyond comprehension.

    As the chair of the committee paused to give the delegates a chance to ask her questions, she was met with silence. I so very much wanted to ask her, as politely, but as sincerely as I possibly could, "Delegate, none of us wants crime or violence in our libraries, or anywhere else around our children. But please tell me, how does your bill stop a criminal from bringing it to us while we are there?"

    Of course the answer is "absolutely nothing," but they are blind. What has caused this blindness, I cannot say. I sure wish we could figure it out and develop the cure.

    I've said this before, and I'm going to keep saying it (although most likely in different ways, until I finally stumble upon that magic sound-bite slogan that will stick):

    The state should allow legal gun carry in every single place that it is unwilling or unable to establish and maintain a 100% secure perimeter with full screens for weapons. Any place a criminal can sneak a gun, we should be able to carry a gun.


    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Audio


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    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    What's Delegate BaCote's motivation to specifically target libraries for additional restrictions? Have there been documented gun-related incidents inside of Virginia libraries? And if so, was she (or a constituent) personally involved in the incident(s)?

    I'm just curious about her desire to ban guns in libraries to the apparent exclusion of other similar public gathering locations. I haven't read the bill but from the online summaries, the bill seemed quite narrow in scope.
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    What's Delegate BaCote's motivation to specifically target libraries for additional restrictions? Have there been documented gun-related incidents inside of Virginia libraries? And if so, was she (or a constituent) personally involved in the incident(s)?

    I'm just curious about her desire to ban guns in libraries to the apparent exclusion of other similar public gathering locations. I haven't read the bill but from the online summaries, the bill seemed quite narrow in scope.
    No one really knows Felix.
    She brings this bill up every year and it gets shot down every year and it's always been a mystery why she is so passionate about it.
    There have been no incidents that anyone has been able to find and she has never explained it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No one really knows Felix.
    She brings this bill up every year and it gets shot down every year and it's always been a mystery why she is so passionate about it.
    There have been no incidents that anyone has been able to find and she has never explained it.
    Whether narrow minded or misguided passion, it is a singular campaign that has but one effect.......it wastes everyone's time.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    What's Delegate BaCote's motivation to specifically target libraries for additional restrictions? Have there been documented gun-related incidents inside of Virginia libraries? And if so, was she (or a constituent) personally involved in the incident(s)?

    I'm just curious about her desire to ban guns in libraries to the apparent exclusion of other similar public gathering locations. I haven't read the bill but from the online summaries, the bill seemed quite narrow in scope.
    As she read from her prepared remarks, I believe I remember some reference to the idea that the children's reading programs are similar in nature to schools, and since we ban schools, why don't we also ban libraries? That correlation is not inherently illogical, but of course, the logical solution is to not ban schools... not to ban libraries!

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    As she read from her prepared remarks, I believe I remember some reference to the idea that the children's reading programs are similar in nature to schools, and since we ban schools, why don't we also ban libraries? That correlation is not inherently illogical, but of course, the logical solution is to not ban schools... not to ban libraries!

    TFred
    Sounds almost like she is suggesting that the freedom to use the 1st Amendment trumps the 2nd Amendment.

    We all want our children to be safe and well educated. Her way creates an atmosphere conducive to neither.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Amusing

    The NRA really doesn't much look anywhere else besides what they come up with. This is their little blurb description of HB 26:

    House Bill 26, sponsored by Delegate Mark Cole (R-88), would allow a court to waive a $25 dollar fine upon presentation of the permit to the court, if a person fails to display his concealed handgun permit when requested by a law enforcement officer.
    Of course, this is just the coincidental part of the bill, the primary purpose being to distinguish for the first time, a difference between carrying concealed without having been granted a permit, and carrying concealed without having said permit on your person. The waiving of the fine is almost meaningless, but their summary makes it sound like that's the only important change.



    TFred

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Here's an incident that highlights why you SHOULD carry in a library:

    http://www.wvec.com/my-city/norfolk/...138009883.html

    NORFOLK--A Norfolk man is charged with stabbing a person leaving the Ocean View library.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Here's an incident that highlights why you SHOULD carry in a library:

    http://www.wvec.com/my-city/norfolk/...138009883.html
    We knew about that and discussed it, but it has nothing to do with firearms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    As she read from her prepared remarks, I believe I remember some reference to the idea that the children's reading programs are similar in nature to schools, and since we ban schools, why don't we also ban libraries? That correlation is not inherently illogical, but of course, the logical solution is to not ban schools... not to ban libraries!

    TFred
    Well, lets just take the argument that libraries and schools should be treated the same way and run with it. People have been regularly carrying in libraries for years and not a single bad thing has come from that (the same can't be said of gun-free schools); so why shouldn't we treat schools the same way that we treat libraries, and allow carry there too?

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    This shooting occurred at one of the Lynchburg Public Libraries down on Memorial Avenue back in 2009. This shooting occurred about 50 feet of EC Glass High School property.

    http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/200.../bit.ly/fHgP3z

    For reference here's an overhead view of the library with relation to the school. The shooting occurred on the Lakeside Drive side where Lakeside meets Memorial by the baseball fields.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Jones+...ginia&t=h&z=17
    Last edited by jmelvin; 01-27-2012 at 11:02 AM.

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    Regular Member G0Z's Avatar
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    Plaxico Burress?!?

    Delegate BaCote mentions a firearm falling out of a holster and accidentally discharging; striking a patron in the leg, OR HEAD, or any other part of the body...

    I love that this incident is still the call to arms (so to speak) for legislators seeking to impose firearm limitations. I believe some of you can attest to Senator Northam employing the EXACT same incidental defense, slightly more appropriately though completely off the mark, for opposition to conceal carry in ABC-on locations.

    As you may recall, Plaxico was carrying illegally(w/o a valid permit issued by the state), in a Night club, in NEW YORK CITY. I might add that he was admittedly carrying a "drink" at the time. The accidental discharge occurred as a result of him carrying unsecured and depressing the trigger unintentionally; thereby shooting himself in the thigh.

    Delegate BaCote's argument poses some misconceptions I find offensive. The most egregious of which: legislating against our civil liberties somehow enhances safety, and Plaxico Burress can read.

    ~G0Z
    A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
    ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Peter Nap--I do believe my new GOP delegate, Rick Morris, was appointed to the Militia committee you refer to here. Did he say or do anything that you noticed at this meeting which you found pro or con as to his support of 2A? Thanks.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    Peter Nap--I do believe my new GOP delegate, Rick Morris, was appointed to the Militia committee you refer to here. Did he say or do anything that you noticed at this meeting which you found pro or con as to his support of 2A? Thanks.
    The title of this thread is slightly incomplete. This was actually a meeting of Subcommittee #1, of which Morris is not a member.

    On another note, I just saw that HB 458, BaCote's Library bill, is back on the list of bills referred to Sub #1. Some sort of error?

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    The title of this thread is slightly incomplete. This was actually a meeting of Subcommittee #1, of which Morris is not a member.

    On another note, I just saw that HB 458, BaCote's Library bill, is back on the list of bills referred to Sub #1. Some sort of error?

    TFred
    Why not sub-committee #1? That's as good a place as any to table it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Why not sub-committee #1? That's as good a place as any to table it.
    Yes, it is, and it already was. The bill received no action once last Thursday, so why is it back on the docket to be heard again?

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Yes, it is, and it already was. The bill received no action once last Thursday, so why is it back on the docket to be heard again?

    TFred
    Now I understand your question.

    The entire 6 hour marathon session of this sub-committee on this past Wednesday evening was found to be in violation of the rules - don't ask me which one 'cause I don't know yet.

    Bottom line is that all of the bills heard that night will be reheard again and new votes caste.
    http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cg...410625&FILTER=
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Hmmm...I wonder which Democrat found the rules "violation"....
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Now I understand your question.

    The entire 6 hour marathon session of this sub-committee on this past Wednesday evening was found to be in violation of the rules - don't ask me which one 'cause I don't know yet.

    Bottom line is that all of the bills heard that night will be reheard again and new votes caste.
    http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cg...410625&FILTER=
    You are combining two different events. The Senate's Courts of Justice full committee meeting on Wednesday was nullified because two of the Senators who voted by proxy had actually left the immediate vicinity of the Capital grounds, which is a technical violation of the rules. I believe the proxy system is designed to cover for Senators and Delegates who are otherwise occupied in different meetings, but still on location at the Capital or GAB. When they realized that those two in question had left, but had still been voting "by proxy", they decided to rehear the bills. Consistent with the double standard we see today, I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the minority party found out about this trivial event, they would have raised a huge stink about it. After all, rules are for Republicans, or so it would seem.

    On the other hand, the Library bill was heard and died in the House of Delegates MPPS Subcommittee #1 on Thursday afternoon, then it magically reappeared on the list of bills still to be considered by the subcommittee. There did not seem to be any anomaly with the handling of the bill the first time around, and at least one other bill was also not acted upon, and is not listed to be heard again. I suspect it is a simple clerical error.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    You are combining two different events. The Senate's Courts of Justice full committee meeting on Wednesday was nullified because two of the Senators who voted by proxy had actually left the immediate vicinity of the Capital grounds, which is a technical violation of the rules. I believe the proxy system is designed to cover for Senators and Delegates who are otherwise occupied in different meetings, but still on location at the Capital or GAB. When they realized that those two in question had left, but had still been voting "by proxy", they decided to rehear the bills. Consistent with the double standard we see today, I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the minority party found out about this trivial event, they would have raised a huge stink about it. After all, rules are for Republicans, or so it would seem.

    On the other hand, the Library bill was heard and died in the House of Delegates MPPS Subcommittee #1 on Thursday afternoon, then it magically reappeared on the list of bills still to be considered by the subcommittee. There did not seem to be any anomaly with the handling of the bill the first time around, and at least one other bill was also not acted upon, and is not listed to be heard again. I suspect it is a simple clerical error.

    TFred
    Sorry 'bout that - many different meetings with a lot of bills and I didn't check my notes.

    BTW - here is the docket for the Monday Senate Committee on Courts of Justice - it is HUGE and begins at 8:00 A.M.!
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+doc+S0310130
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Felix's Avatar
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    PN, any chance you'll be able to tape (and post) take two...Monday Senate Committee on Courts of Justice?
    Daily carry: SIG P229 .40 S&W

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Library Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No one really knows Felix.
    She brings this bill up every year and it gets shot down every year and it's always been a mystery why she is so passionate about it.
    There have been no incidents that anyone has been able to find and she has never explained it.
    Public libraries are warm in the winter, and they are cool in the summer. Not surprisingly, this attracts those unfortunate people who cannot otherwise find a warm or cool place to be.
    My observation is that most are homeless and harmless. However, life on the streets can make some people angry and resentful and, perhaps, dangerous. You never know ... until their gun comes out to play.
    Should that happen, I hope to be able to save myself and others from being hapless and helpless victims.

    The downtown Norfolk public library is closed for renovations. Local history and genealogical services have been relocated to the Pretlow Library in Ocean View. So, I visited recently. I made a point to stop and read the posted "Dos and Don'ts". The last entry under prohibited activities is ".. the unlawful possession of weapons". What a waste of ink! It does not apply to "lawful" carriers, and will surely be ignored by "unlawful" carriers. No need to make a fuss, as the prohibition is completely benign in that it applies to no one.

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