thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
Hmmm...I wonder which Democrat found the rules "violation"....
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Tonights (01-26-12) Militia and Police Committee Meeting
- Thread starter peter nap
- Start date
TFred
Regular Member
You are combining two different events. The Senate's Courts of Justice full committee meeting on Wednesday was nullified because two of the Senators who voted by proxy had actually left the immediate vicinity of the Capital grounds, which is a technical violation of the rules. I believe the proxy system is designed to cover for Senators and Delegates who are otherwise occupied in different meetings, but still on location at the Capital or GAB. When they realized that those two in question had left, but had still been voting "by proxy", they decided to rehear the bills. Consistent with the double standard we see today, I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the minority party found out about this trivial event, they would have raised a huge stink about it. After all, rules are for Republicans, or so it would seem.
On the other hand, the Library bill was heard and died in the House of Delegates MPPS Subcommittee #1 on Thursday afternoon, then it magically reappeared on the list of bills still to be considered by the subcommittee. There did not seem to be any anomaly with the handling of the bill the first time around, and at least one other bill was also not acted upon, and is not listed to be heard again. I suspect it is a simple clerical error.
TFred
Sorry 'bout that - many different meetings with a lot of bills and I didn't check my notes.
BTW - here is the docket for the Monday Senate Committee on Courts of Justice - it is HUGE and begins at 8:00 A.M.!
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?121+doc+S0310130
USNA69
Regular Member
Library Carry
Public libraries are warm in the winter, and they are cool in the summer. Not surprisingly, this attracts those unfortunate people who cannot otherwise find a warm or cool place to be.
My observation is that most are homeless and harmless. However, life on the streets can make some people angry and resentful and, perhaps, dangerous. You never know ... until their gun comes out to play.
Should that happen, I hope to be able to save myself and others from being hapless and helpless victims.
The downtown Norfolk public library is closed for renovations. Local history and genealogical services have been relocated to the Pretlow Library in Ocean View. So, I visited recently. I made a point to stop and read the posted "Dos and Don'ts". The last entry under prohibited activities is ".. the unlawful possession of weapons". What a waste of ink! It does not apply to "lawful" carriers, and will surely be ignored by "unlawful" carriers. No need to make a fuss, as the prohibition is completely benign in that it applies to no one.
Public libraries are warm in the winter, and they are cool in the summer. Not surprisingly, this attracts those unfortunate people who cannot otherwise find a warm or cool place to be.
My observation is that most are homeless and harmless. However, life on the streets can make some people angry and resentful and, perhaps, dangerous. You never know ... until their gun comes out to play.
Should that happen, I hope to be able to save myself and others from being hapless and helpless victims.
The downtown Norfolk public library is closed for renovations. Local history and genealogical services have been relocated to the Pretlow Library in Ocean View. So, I visited recently. I made a point to stop and read the posted "Dos and Don'ts". The last entry under prohibited activities is ".. the unlawful possession of weapons". What a waste of ink! It does not apply to "lawful" carriers, and will surely be ignored by "unlawful" carriers. No need to make a fuss, as the prohibition is completely benign in that it applies to no one.
I don't see it as "benign" at all.
It contributes and furthers the anti message that guns are bad + gives the impression to the uneducated that no one is allowed to possess them in the library.
This is the very type of misleading sign/information that we are working so hard to rectify.
I would point out the wording of § 15.2-915.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
TFred
Regular Member
No biggie, there is so much going on, we all need each other's help to keep it straight. Especially with the sometimes poor job that the news media does in reporting. One of our local newspaper reporters declared a bill that has generated some local interest to be "dead" because it died in a House committee, completely ignoring the fact that its identical counterpart is still alive and on track on the Senate side. Maybe they assume it will die after crossover, but who can really say for sure?
I agree with you 100% on this, and that library needs to be corrected. 15.2-915 does not say that a locality may regulate guns "as long as they don't surpass or disagree with state law". It says they may not regulate guns at all, unless specifically allowed to do so by state law. And this case is not one of those allowed by state law.
That means that a library can't even put up a sign that says "You must have a CHP to carry a concealed handgun." It's true. That is state law. But a city owned library is specifically not authorized to post a sign about it, even if it is true and is merely restating the law.
This is why we need teeth in 15.2-915!
TFred
Well, I'll be there at 7:00.
That presents some problems. They may be able to sail through the bills from last week. Maybe not though. The session looks like it could go 12 hours and my equipment isn't designed for more than 6 without changing cards and batteries. Fortunately I have spares of everything so there shouldn't be any lost moments as long as I watch everything. I take my audio feeds directly from their sound system so I'll need to plug in both H4N's to keep the other news people from filling the plugs.
I'll just have to keep rotating cameras.
I have to take lunch because I can't eat anything they have.
I don't think I have any other pressing bills for Monday but I can duck out for an hour or two if need be.
That presents some problems. They may be able to sail through the bills from last week. Maybe not though. The session looks like it could go 12 hours and my equipment isn't designed for more than 6 without changing cards and batteries. Fortunately I have spares of everything so there shouldn't be any lost moments as long as I watch everything. I take my audio feeds directly from their sound system so I'll need to plug in both H4N's to keep the other news people from filling the plugs.
I'll just have to keep rotating cameras.
I have to take lunch because I can't eat anything they have.
I don't think I have any other pressing bills for Monday but I can duck out for an hour or two if need be.
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TFred
Regular Member
Since they are just correcting for a technicality, maybe they will lump all the bills that were heard into a couple of "consent" type groups and vote on them all together the same way they did the other day.
TFred
That would be nice consideringa couple of the new bills are certain to get a lot of argument.
USNA69
Regular Member
Of course, you are correct
Thanks for the "calibration", Gentlemen. I should have thought this through before I made that comment.
Perhaps that will be my next project:
I will visit each Norfolk library and see what each signs says. If they are identical, I will take that to mean that the rules are centrally promulgated. Even if they are not identical ...
... I will a post letter to the Library Director (Norman L. Maas norman.maas@norfolk.gov (757) 441-5910) explaining that the entry on the Regulations sign is in violation 15.2-915 and must be removed. In addition, a close friend is married to a Norfolk Deputy City Attorney, who should be sensitive to 15.2-915 and assist in getting the entry removed.
Thanks for the "calibration", Gentlemen. I should have thought this through before I made that comment.
Perhaps that will be my next project:
I will visit each Norfolk library and see what each signs says. If they are identical, I will take that to mean that the rules are centrally promulgated. Even if they are not identical ...
... I will a post letter to the Library Director (Norman L. Maas norman.maas@norfolk.gov (757) 441-5910) explaining that the entry on the Regulations sign is in violation 15.2-915 and must be removed. In addition, a close friend is married to a Norfolk Deputy City Attorney, who should be sensitive to 15.2-915 and assist in getting the entry removed.
TFred
Regular Member
".. the unlawful possession of weapons"
Here's the part that we may need to think through a little bit... 15.2-915 covers "firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof". Does "weapons" include that, sufficiently enough to violate the law? They may say that they don't mean "firearms". Of course, if that's what they mean, then they should make the sign say: "the unlawful possession of weapons, except firearms!"
Fat chance they'll ever do that!
TFred
Here's the part that we may need to think through a little bit... 15.2-915 covers "firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof". Does "weapons" include that, sufficiently enough to violate the law? They may say that they don't mean "firearms". Of course, if that's what they mean, then they should make the sign say: "the unlawful possession of weapons, except firearms!"
Fat chance they'll ever do that!
TFred
2a4all
Regular Member
I would think "unlawful possession" covers it. It would include any weapon or prohibited person enumerated in relevant statutes (e.g. 18.2-301) and allow for any exceptions (lawful possession, e.g. CHP, OC, etc).
USNA69
Regular Member
The other entries on the sign are not unlawful behaviors, per se, e.g. showering/shaving in restrooms.
If the possession of weapons is unlawful, it is unlawful because of Code of Virginia, not because the sign makes it so. An already unlawful act does not become more unlawful merely because it appears on library signage. The entry is superfluous.
Thus, the sign is merely restating existing law. For all the good it might do, it may as well include "Unlawful Assault", "Unlawful Robbery", "Unlawful Rape" ... you get the idea.