Which 9mm Handgun?

Glock19fan said:

That is very true. I havent always been a fan of Glocks but over the past year so, since I got one, my mind has changed about them. IMO I think that the only handgun that really compares is the S&W M&P, which to me may point a little better. I suppose when it comes too its all a matter of opinion, kinda like the Ford vs Chevy, Dodge debate.

E.J.

Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment of the M&P series. I have three and shoot them better than any of my Glocks; particularly with my M&P 9 Pro Series and my M&P 45 4" barrel. I shoot those two guns very well. But I must say that my Glocks (EX: my gen3 G19) is more reliable with no failures of any kind, whereas my M&P Pro has had a few failures to feed and failures to lock open after the last round (several just this week) probably due to a sensitivity to specific ammo. My G19 has never failed me and nor has either of my two gen3 G23's. The ammo I was using was Federal 115gr FMJ target ammo from WalMart. WWB has been much better. The thing with the M&P design is that you have to keep the gun clean, and that includes disassembling and cleaning the magazine as well.


Plus the M&P has a few design faults in my opinion.

o Their loaded chamber indicator is a joke. They should have followed Glock's, Kahr's, Beretta's, and Taurus's lead (to name a few) by using the extractor for this important feature. You can't see what's under the hole on the top of the slide in the dark.

o Their take down lever is not dependable in its operation. Sometimes it tries to return to rest on its own. Better to either improve this item or use another approach to taking the slide off.

o The magazine follower's design makes it unduly difficult to load "first" cartridges into the magazine in particular for the 9mm.

o The magazine springs are somewhat thin and easily bent and not the best quality.


But I still very much like the M&P and do carry one frequently. I have been in the process of re-evaluatiing my primary carry gun, which for five years has been one of my gen3 G23's. I have spent time testing various guns at the range and comparing how I do with them against one another. I have determined that my M&P 9mm Pro Series and my M&P 45 4" are consistently the most accurate in my hands. My gen3 G19 comes in behind those two. Oh, and there's an M&P 40 in the picture as well. I am going back next week to once again spend some time with my G19 because I added Pierce grip extensions to two of the magazines (not the +1 variety). I want to see if my grip improves since I suspect that to be what is affecting my accuracy with this G19.

With my two above mentioned M&P's (the 9mm Pro and the 45), I am consistent with hits to POA so the G19 is up against some good stuff in a few days.

SouthernBoy said:

o Their take down lever is not dependable in its operation. Sometimes it tries to return to rest on its own. Better to either improve this item or use another approach to taking the slide off.

Click to expand...

You can always pull the trigger to get the slide off, if I am not mistaken this is how you disassemble glocks.

Also, I have never had any problems with M&P but I usually clean it every time I shoot it but I have never disassembled the mag. I have only had one problem with my smith and that was a failure to eject the last time I took it out, up until then it has been 100% for good ammo.

09jisaac said:

Last time I checked (google, just now) you still don't even need a license to own a full auto in the US either. Have the cash and the tax stamp and you can walk out with one today (had to start the process months ago). It isn't too big of a chore to get a class 3 weapon if you have the money for one. Also Kentucky has great gun laws and other talk about how good Virginia's is, so I am guessing that theirs might be as good or better.

And you know everything about guns because you have played airsoft for the last couple of years? I would listen to advice from actual gun owners.

Edit: I am not saying you can't disagree with what we have to say, but don't disagree with it just because you shot plastic bbs out of one that you didn't like.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the info on Class 3 laws. Thanks!

I listen to advice from friends who have been in the profession 35+ years. One owns a prestigious training company in my area, and the other was once the tenth-best handgun shooter in the world, from what I've heard. Please don't diss me because my hands are boney and some grips and controls don't feel right...

View attachment 7842

You can do what I did and go the tactical approach and get a G19 and deck it out with all the NEEDED accessories.

Yes in Ky or most other states you can own A fully automatic firearm, however it can't be manufactured after 1986, and it will cost you thousands of dollars. In the Philippines you can own a glock 18 for almost 600 U.S.D., and it can be brand new, that to me is better than Americas laws on fully automatic firearms. As for Virginias and kentuckys gun laws, kentuckys are much better, however Virginia legislators are trying to work on that this year. As for 9mm handguns, you can't go wrong with a glock! I own a block in every caliber except .45 G.A.P. And love them all! Don't buy a kel-tec p-11. I have owned two, and both had malfunctions often!, not to mention you will not find a serpa holster for one. The pf-9 may be better, but still no serpa! I just bought the new sig 226 Mk 25 today! I usually don't buy sig, and this is my first and I love it! It is the same firearm the navy seals are issued, it has extreme corrosion resistance, night sights, chambered in 9mm and you can get a serpa for it! I never carry a 9mm for self defense, but I like this firearm so much it will surely ride on my side every now and then! It's cost is a bit higher than 600, I paid $880.00 for mine, that was with tax, however my local shop did give me a little discount because I shop there so often. So, I'd go with the glock 19, or the new sig!

I'll take a semi-auto rifle without permission over a licensed assault rifle any day.

Boba Fett said:

I'm looking into my first handgun, and I want a 9mm. Ideally I want something that's compact, around the size of a Glock 19, and under $600. I'd also prefer if there's a SERPA out for it, as I swear by the SERPA.

Here are a few that I'm considering: Glock 19; Beretta PX4 Storm; Beretta PX4 Compact; Kahr CW9: Kel-Tec P11; Walther PPS; XD9 Compact; USP Compact;

Click to expand...

The pistols that you are considering are - for the most part - excellent choices. I presently own handguns from 8 different manufacturers, and overall I prefer my Glocks for feel, pointability, capacity, accuracy and reliability. I believe that I have a slightly larger than average hand. I also own an early (1995-1996) Kahr K9, single-stack model, in 9mm and I would strongly suggest that you experience the feel of a Kahr before making your final decision. A couple of decades ago I owned a Walther PPK-S, and was not postively impressed by it. No matter what I fed it, it would 'stovepipe' every 2nd or 3rd ejection, so I have shied away from Walther pistols ever since (I know that technology has made tremendous advances in firearms design and production since then, but I'm one of those 'once bitten' guys. And, although I had lusted for one for years, when I finally bought a Browning Hi-Power I didn't much like it either.) Pax...

09jisaac said:

You can always pull the trigger to get the slide off, if I am not mistaken this is how you disassemble glocks.

Also, I have never had any problems with M&P but I usually clean it every time I shoot it but I have never disassembled the mag. I have only had one problem with my smith and that was a failure to eject the last time I took it out, up until then it has been 100% for good ammo.

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I do. I have never yet used that little lever when field stripping any of my M&P's.

KYGlockster said:

As for Virginias and kentuckys gun laws, kentuckys are much better, however Virginia legislators are trying to work on that this year.

Click to expand...

How so? Can you elaborate?

If you two would like to discuss those two states' gun laws, I'd rather you continue in PM's, or start another thread. Thanks! I want to stick to 9mm's on this thread.

haha I understand about being once-bitten! I'm that way with a couple airsoft makers, like CYMA and JG. Expensive trash with designs cloned from the masters like Tokyo Marui and KWA.

Anyways back on the tracks - I'm getting out the magnifying glass, so to speak, and really looking into the Glock 19, PX4 and PPS.

Boba Fett said:

If you two would like to discuss those two states' gun laws, I'd rather you continue in PM's, or start another thread. Thanks! I want to stick to 9mm's on this thread.

haha I understand about being once-bitten! I'm that way with a couple airsoft makers, like CYMA and JG. Expensive trash with designs cloned from the masters like Tokyo Marui and KWA.

Anyways back on the tracks - I'm getting out the magnifying glass, so to speak, and really looking into the Glock 19, PX4 and PPS.

Click to expand...

If the G19 and Px4 are on your radar, might I suggest the P99 and PPQ from Walther. They're both about the same size and price as the 19 and Px4 (ok, the Px4 is a bit cheaper than all the rest) with slightly different functions and IMO better ergonomics than either. The PPQ action is like the Glock (pre-set striker, short reset) with the addition of a decocker and fully ambidextrous controls, and gives you H&K P30 quality (minus the polygonal rifling and o-ring barrel) for half the price. The P99 is an option if you prefer a typical DA/SA action. Prices vary, but you'll probably find the P99 slightly cheaper just because the PPQ is very new and there's a demand for it.

SouthernBoy said:

How so? Can you elaborate?

Click to expand...

You can't carry a firearm that holds more than 20 rounds in it's magazine in Virginia, you do not have laws that forbid a Leo from disarming you, you do not have a state of emergency law that prohibits disarming and confiscation of firearms or other deadly weapons, or that prohibits government from stopping sales of weapons during a SOE, You can only buy one handgun per month and you must complete two background checks, you can't use your cdwl to excuse you from the ncis check when purchasing firearms like I can in Ky, your concealed license only covers firearms and not all deadly weapons, You can't openly carry an AR because it can accommodate a suppresor, it must have a non threaded barrel or pinned flash hider, and hold no more than 20 rounds, you cant carry any firearm with a suppresor attached and you cant carry a rifle with a folding stock, you can't carry in non-sterile portions of airports..... I could find more reasons but I'm tired of looking. Alot of these things the legislature is working on this year, now whether these bills will pass is of course unknown.

There are more than two people who are in this conversation, so I posted here where the question was asked.

If you want, you can take this over to the kentucky forums (or Virginia's, I was just suggesting a place). But I believe that answered all of it right there.

KY is right about the government not allowed to touch our guns during a SOE ("or any other time" or something similar is included in that law).

I am sorry for bringing this up. I just have read, on multiple occasions here, how good VA's laws (or lack of) is.

SovereignAxe said:

If the G19 and Px4 are on your radar, might I suggest the P99 and PPQ from Walther. They're both about the same size and price as the 19 and Px4 (ok, the Px4 is a bit cheaper than all the rest) with slightly different functions and IMO better ergonomics than either. The PPQ action is like the Glock (pre-set striker, short reset) with the addition of a decocker and fully ambidextrous controls, and gives you H&K P30 quality (minus the polygonal rifling and o-ring barrel) for half the price. The P99 is an option if you prefer a typical DA/SA action. Prices vary, but you'll probably find the P99 slightly cheaper just because the PPQ is very new and there's a demand for it.

Click to expand...

I used to have a P99 replica too. It was ok, but the grip seemed rather 'tall' to my tastes. I'm also only 120 pounds, so CC wouldn't be as easy as I'd like with the longer grip of the P99. Thanks for the recommendation, and those PPQ's are quite nice!

Boba Fett said:

I used to have a P99 replica too. It was ok, but the grip seemed rather 'tall' to my tastes. I'm also only 120 pounds, so CC wouldn't be as easy as I'd like with the longer grip of the P99. Thanks for the recommendation, and those PPQ's are quite nice!

Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean, I once played a video game that had the P99 in it. It just didn't shoot "right". But I didn't give it much of a chance.

lol guys, you're really going to compare a replica and a video game to the real thing? at least handle one before you make judgement.

as for the height, it can't be more than a few mm off from the 19 or Px4. I can't find any figures right now for height, but from handling the Px4 I'd think that it's a bit shorter than the Px4.

SovereignAxe said:

lol guys, you're really going to compare a replica and a video game to the real thing? at least handle one before you make judgement.

as for the height, it can't be more than a few mm off from the 19 or Px4. I can't find any figures right now for height, but from handling the Px4 I'd think that it's a bit shorter than the Px4.

Click to expand...

My dad has had his Walther P99 before they even came out with the QA. I believe his Walther was made back in 94. It has a good feel to it, fits the hand well, he loves it. The only problem I have with it is the trigger. It seems to pinch my finger when I fire it.

JesterP99 said:

My dad has had his Walther P99 before they even came out with the QA. I believe his Walther was made back in 94. It has a good feel to it, fits the hand well, he loves it. The only problem I have with it is the trigger. It seems to pinch my finger when I fire it.

Click to expand...

oh wow, he must have one of the very first models (they didn't come out till '97 btw). The QA and AS redesigns came out in 2004, so there are plenty of first gen models, but it's nice to hear one from the 90s is still going strong. any idea what his round count is so far?

SovereignAxe said:

oh wow, he must have one of the very first models (they didn't come out till '97 btw). The QA and AS redesigns came out in 2004, so there are plenty of first gen models, but it's nice to hear one from the 90s is still going strong. any idea what his round count is so far?

Click to expand...

I know this is a pretty old gun, and I know the magazine says 94 on it. It was purchased by an FBI agent during his basic training in alexandria from a company called interarms.

JesterP99 said:

I know this is a pretty old gun, and I know the magazine says 94 on it. It was purchased by an FBI agent during his basic training in alexandria from a company called interarms.

Click to expand...

according to the wikipedia article on the P99, design work on it began in 1994 and production started in 1997, so my guess is that refers to the design date (oddly, my mags have no date on them that I'm aware of)

but it is wikipedia and whoever wrote that article didn't cite a source, so I guess we can both take it with a grain of salt. But I would hope that someone that lists dates like that has some sort of reference they're going by.