Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: Proper labeling your home for ammo storage????

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florissant, Mo
    Posts
    227

    Proper labeling your home for ammo storage????

    At the other post I was on, the question was brought up about having label or certain fees for storing X amount of ammo.

    First, I do not have all the answers, but I have some...

    By Federal law... if you are carrying... transporting 1,001 lbs or more of a hazard, you must place a DOT hazard sign on your vehical. For instance, if you are driving with 1,001 lbs or more of ammo, the card would be a 1.4 Explosion Card.

    I know that buildings with speical hazards have the NFPA 704 "dimaond" with numbers and colors.

    The question is about storing it at home....

    Well, first you have to check with;
    Home assoication rules of your area (if you have one)
    laws about storing items at your home through your city hall.

    Never know, you could be fined if you have X amount of ammo or lbs of ammo. This can be a real problem if you reload ammo. In my opinion I'm think if you have in storage say 50 or even 100 lbs of gun powder or more. Without proper ventilation, you are asking for an explosion. and if it caused by your storage of gun power... your home owner insurance isn't going to cover for that.

    Also, check with your insurance agent, see do you need a speical policy for having ammo at he home.

    As an example, if you wanted to start a home business of making fire works... after getting the license etc... you would have to have certain equipment to help prevent a fire/ explosion there. This would be the same difference.

    But as for just storing ammo... I would think after you have so many rounds, the city you live in might want you to have it stored in a special mag/ locker. They (city you live in) may limit your ammo amount to have in a single home.

    Just saying... its something worth finding out.

  2. #2
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    NEW -

    This issue should be discussed via PMs.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    I'm just curious, but why should this be discussed via PMs? It seems that if it has any weight that it would be a good thing for everyone to at least know about; especially if it is because of Federal laws regarding "hazardous" materials and not just local laws. Not to mention it turns into an issue of "keeping arms" as a gun/bullets need the other in order to function as "arms" much like a "bow and arrow" need each other.

  4. #4
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    OK.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    I am going to ask a fireman friend about this. If I were a first responder to a fire, I would like to have a heads up on an ammunition storage area. I also do not wish to advertise to the public of any amounts of ammunition.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  6. #6
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Terra, Sol
    Posts
    2,779
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    NEW -

    This issue should be discussed via PMs.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I also do not wish to advertise to the public of any amounts of ammunition.


    So... We have two smart ones on the forums at least.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    NEW - net explosive weight; for you hand loaders. Based on the type of munition(s). The formula is sort of complicated but usually ends up with a kilogram result. You go over the limit....that is bad.

    Retail buyers really don't need to worry about it unless you are storing 10's of thousands of rounds.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  8. #8
    Activist Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ashland, KY
    Posts
    1,847
    Why would you née to label your home for storing ammunition at all? When I walk in gunstores, I never see signs or placards, and they have millions of rounds, not to mention hundreds of pounds of powder. When on the highway, this may be if you are hauling over 500 lbs., but I don't think so for manufactured ammunition. Making someone label their home regardless of amount of ammunition they have would be extremely unconstitutional under the 4th amendment. This would apply to all states under the 14th!

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florissant, Mo
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I am going to ask a fireman friend about this. If I were a first responder to a fire, I would like to have a heads up on an ammunition storage area. I also do not wish to advertise to the public of any amounts of ammunition.
    True, I always know to know about firearms when I go to a house fire. Many departments would appericate the info... even if you don't have a "ton" of ammo, but enough to say... hey, if my house is on fire... you probably want to let it go.

    But knowing the local laws about it. last thing you want to do is say after the fire and have a report to do to the Marshall, etc.. "oh, I keep about 70,000 rnds of ammo and I reload too".

    I remember years ago when I taken an inspection class... I learn about differnt magazines. Of couse you have the "mags" that go into your guns. But that ammo box is consider a "mag". The fully stocked gun case, is considered a "mag". There are "mags" as the size of office buildings. WIth that being said, you don't want some government offical to consider your basement, house, etc a "mag", and a "mag" of that size would need certain ventilation, labeling, etc.

    So, I'm just saying, be careful.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    So... We have two smart ones on the forums at least.
    Please explain how talking about the laws regarding ammo storage in PMs as opposed to on the actual forum where everyone can learn from it is "smart." While it might not be the best of ideas to say something like "I have 10k+ rounds in my house" that doesn't mean we couldn't all learn from this subject. Your comment also implies that others on the forum aren't smart which could easily be taken as a personal attack via the forum rules.

  11. #11
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Terra, Sol
    Posts
    2,779
    While it might not be the best of ideas to say something like "I have 10k+ rounds in my house" ...
    So we agree...
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Go ahead and discuss this subject.

    Report my post on this thread to the Moderator or Admin if you feel that I violated a forum rule.

    A residential dwelling vs. a commercial building where ammo is stored?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    ...In my opinion I'm think if you have in storage say 50 or even 100 lbs of gun powder or more. Without proper ventilation, you are asking for an explosion....
    Huh? Powder is stored in sealed containers. What does ventilation have to do with anything if stored in temperature-controlled environment?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florissant, Mo
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Why would you née to label your home for storing ammunition at all? When I walk in gunstores, I never see signs or placards, and they have millions of rounds, not to mention hundreds of pounds of powder. When on the highway, this may be if you are hauling over 500 lbs., but I don't think so for manufactured ammunition. Making someone label their home regardless of amount of ammunition they have would be extremely unconstitutional under the 4th amendment. This would apply to all states under the 14th!
    ... I'm just saying what is the "law"... federally speaking. Transporting ANY hazard of 1,001 lbs or more requires a "tag" on your vehical...PERIOD. Do everyone do that...no. Even transporting oxygen requires a "tag" when the content and bottles are 1,001 lbs or more.

    I could not say why gun stores etc don't have it posted, but they do have it on their MSDA. But at the same time, fire departments etc have pre-fire plans for the layout and what is needed or even a "safe zone". But millions of ammo... if they did have that amount or more, I'm sure it would be posted somewhere.

    TO go into it further... when those gun shops receive their ammo... the label of 1.4 is on the boxes... unless that shipment was under 1,001 lbs.

    I'm only saying this, because I have certs in Haz Mat Ops and Tech. Most of these type of questions where talked about in our classes.

    Of couse not everyone does it. In general, the cops/ highway patrol do not think you are going to transport 1,001 lbs or more of ammo or any other type of hazard. I'm sure if you ask a highway patrol officer, what they would do, if you where to transport more than a 1,001 lbs of ammo with no label on your car? It will be a interseting convo for you.

    But back to my oringal thought... do you think that city ordances would or already have citiations in place that requires you to post it? As I said before, I been to two house explosions and each owner where fined to "excessive amounts" of gun powder. But what is "exessive"?
    Last edited by Firedawg314; 01-27-2012 at 10:16 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    670
    Firedawg Quote: By Federal law... if you are carrying... transporting 1,001 lbs or more of a hazard, you must place a DOT hazard sign on your vehical. For instance, if you are driving with 1,001 lbs or more of ammo, the card would be a 1.4 Explosion Card. UNQUOTE

    sorry mate you have mis-interpreted US 49cfr, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION criteria, since what you are referencing within the code is for COMMERICAL vehicles transporting materials on the US' highways!!

    the placards everyone else is talking about refers to National Fire Prevention criteria for Hazardous materials within a COMMERICAL facility/building. (there are numerous legal criteria defining zoning/commerical designation)

    now i agree w/the other posters...it is nobody's business on how much 'stuff' i store within my RESIDENTIAL building(s). I personally do not care if the FD 'would appreciate' knowing this and there is certainly no NFP criteria to notify the Fire Marshall of stores maintained within your residence...

    therefore...

    wabbit

    ps: if you have 49cfr certs then you also know that haz mat can be designated 'daily use' w/o any requirement for placard(s) on vehicles...

    pps: might have gotten bad information from your classes...
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 01-27-2012 at 10:18 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florissant, Mo
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Huh? Powder is stored in sealed containers. What does ventilation have to do with anything if stored in temperature-controlled environment?
    Sometimes containers fail. And containers are not "perfect". Even the most "sealed" ones. But once you break that factory seal, then its not "perfect" anymore. You have no idea of how many "containers" are open when that person reloads,etc. I'm just saying... for the guy's house I was talking about that exploded... he wasn't even working on machine... yet. Just another day for him. but it was concluded that the "excessive" amount of gun power he had and poor ventilation added to the mixture of making it "go off".

    Like I said before, even if you where to make fire works... you are not going to have "everything" open at once... there are still particals that float in the air that you cannot see nor smell. THink about it... a dog can sniff out a bomb within a car...amoung the fumes, oil, person odor and the mixes of outside air.

    Many airports like in ST.Louis... can sniff out on you particals of gunpower, even if you used it a week before board...trust me, I know...not a pretty sight for me that day.

    WIthin that "perfect" mixture to make things combust; air, fuel, temp, and ignition source... you will have a combustion. Any matterial, once small enough and light enough to mix with air... once in that "perfect" range, it will ignite. Ventilation is key when working with powders... keep the item in a too lean state to ignite.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florissant, Mo
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    Firedawg Quote: By Federal law... if you are carrying... transporting 1,001 lbs or more of a hazard, you must place a DOT hazard sign on your vehical. For instance, if you are driving with 1,001 lbs or more of ammo, the card would be a 1.4 Explosion Card. UNQUOTE

    sorry mate you have mis-interpreted US 49cfr, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION criteria, since what you are referencing within the code is for COMMERICAL vehicles transporting materials on the US' highways!!

    the placards everyone else is talking about refers to National Fire Prevention criteria for Hazardous materials within a COMMERICAL facility/building. (there are numerous legal criteria defining zoning/commerical designation)

    now i agree w/the other posters...it is nobody's business on how much 'stuff' i store within my RESIDENTIAL building(s). I personally do not care if the FD 'would appreciate' knowing this and there is certainly no NFP criteria to notify the Fire Marshall of stores maintained within your residence...

    therefore...

    wabbit

    ps: if you have 49cfr certs then you also know that haz mat can be designated 'daily use' w/o any requirement for placard(s) on vehicles...
    Good post... as far as the "daily use" Im' not sure about that... but I have seen weird stuff... like Wal-Mart trucks, should have a mix load on them...
    But back to the real discussion... are there any rules for having "X" amount of ammo/ gunpower in a home? I'm basically saying, I only know of two home owners that I responded to that basically got in trouble and their insurances did not cover them. I could be that they didn't have insurance too... point is... have anyone else know of any rules about it?

    WE can go about hear say and what admendment it would violate, etc...

    For example...I wanted to start a home business...I thought about a small print shop. I was told and received information that I could not have certain items such as a " large" printing machine, coustomers parking at my house, signs, and advertisments on my home. Some things are "common sense" and others are not. With that, what if you where to say... go into business to sell ammo from your home to do internet sells? Or even.... just stock up on ammo, that are in the thousands. Would this be another area where the city/government try to fine you for having "excessive" amount of a hazard? From what I have seen with a lot of stuipid laws... after you did something or been the "victim" of something... they hit you with a fine or something... Well, maybe in the crazy cities I been in...See where I'm going with this?
    Last edited by Firedawg314; 01-27-2012 at 10:29 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree (Indiana County), Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    1,155
    Small arms ammunition is a Class C explosive, not a 1.4 explosive.

    As such, as I remember, it requires no placarding for shipping, unless maybe in truckload quantities.

    No special markings should be required for storage.

    In a house fire, it goes off like popcorn.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    670
    firedawg...now you said the magic words...'business' which changes the whole discussion...you are now under the 'COMMERICAL' side of the coin...

    Zoning now comes into play as a COMMERICAL enterprise and such...

    wabbit

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florissant, Mo
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Small arms ammunition is a Class C explosive, not a 1.4 explosive.

    As such, as I remember, it requires no placarding for shipping, unless maybe in truckload quantities.

    No special markings should be required for storage.

    In a house fire, it goes off like popcorn.
    Sorry, its a Class C and Class 1 explosvie. 1.2 explosive. (just looked it up) Perjectile hazard. I still have my ERG (Emergency Response Guidebook)
    So, I stand corrected, its a Class 1 and its a 1.2 not 1.4

    Yeah it goes off like popcorn... just don't stand close to it. You can still get hurt, either from the shell or the bullet.

    But that is great, if no marking is needed to a large amount.
    Last edited by Firedawg314; 01-27-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,232
    Small arms ammuntion is ORM-D, and therefore exempt from being placarded on a commercial vehicle. Doesn't matter how much there is, ORM-D is exempt. It isn't determined by the total weight in this case, instead it's the individual amount in each round.

    If you want to start arguing that people should placard their homes then I suggest everyone starts placarding their vehicles because of the fuel in their gas tank, I mean have you seen how dangerous that stuff is if it gets set alight? [/sarcasm]

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Florissant, Mo
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    Small arms ammuntion is ORM-D, and therefore exempt from being placarded on a commercial vehicle. Doesn't matter how much there is, ORM-D is exempt. It isn't determined by the total weight in this case, instead it's the individual amount in each round.

    If you want to start arguing that people should placard their homes then I suggest everyone starts placarding their vehicles because of the fuel in their gas tank, I mean have you seen how dangerous that stuff is if it gets set alight? [/sarcasm]
    ... once again... I'm not ... NOT arguing to place labels on home, etc.

    JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF ANYONE KNOW OF ANY "HOME OWNER, ETC" LAWS that deals with storing a certain amount of ammo. that's it. I basically mention some things that I "know of" and wanted feedback... that's it. Since there are people here that know certain facts or even went through a few things.

    You make a good point about it being exempt. If it is, that's great. if not, then the idea is... what to do next.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Small arms ammunition is a Class C explosive, not a 1.4 explosive.

    As such, as I remember, it requires no placarding for shipping, unless maybe in truckload quantities.

    No special markings should be required for storage.

    In a house fire, it goes off like popcorn.
    When I talked with the police on base (nevermind the reason) they told me that the ammo is a 1.4 explosive and as such I didn't have to declare it or have it stored in the armory while I was staying at the base hotel.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Go ahead and discuss this subject.

    Report my post on this thread to the Moderator or Admin if you feel that I violated a forum rule.

    A residential dwelling vs. a commercial building where ammo is stored?
    I had quoted Handy, I don't know why you thought I was talking to you...

  25. #25
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,272
    Sorry....my bad.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •