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Thread: Plain Sight

  1. #1
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    Plain Sight

    I looked through the first few pages of threads and didnt see this subject so I guess ill ask. In cold weather do you have to make EXTRA sure that your carry piece in a OWB holster does not get covered by a jacket/sweatshirt etc?
    Basicly Im asking do I have to tuck my jacket (unzipped) behind my holster to make sure it is 100% visible (four oclock position)? And if my jacket falls over my piece at any time am I then breaking the law by carrying concealed without a permit? WA st BTW. Thanks.
    Last edited by Airon; 01-27-2012 at 08:58 PM.

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    By the letter of the law, yes you would need a CPL.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Washington law doesn't define the term "Concealed", so its a bit of a guessing game.

    That being said, here is some relevant reading for you...

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/concealed

    http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/concealed-weapons/

    http://forums.opencarry.org/forums/s...d-for-9-41-050

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_ca..._United_States

    I will try and find another thread where we talked about your question in some greater detail, but overall you should take whatever precautions you think are necessary to make sure it doesn't get covered, in part or in whole for any reason, just to be on the safe side.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    If you do not have a CPL, wear a jacket like a Carhartt Detroit, blanket lined, short, about belt height. Nice warm jacket if you get the correct size for your body type. I don't think you need to worry with it. I have a CZ82, with a thumb break leather holster that has a gap between the part that the belt goes into, and the part the pistol sits in...the Detroit jacket sits perfectly in that gap with that combo. I also have a CZ85 that I have an Alessi holster for that rides higher (it is perfect for sitting in the car) Even though the 85 is larger than the 82, the 82, with it's holster rides lower.

    Another alternative would be a drop leg holster, Believe it or not: I saw a Tonasket Town Police officer (in uniform) with a drop leg last time I was in town. He was obviously also having a problem with the cold. I must say, that did look strange with the uniform.

    If you have a CPL, don't worry about it. I just wear a coat that is proper for the temperature (yes I have a Carhartt Detroit, it's good to about 0F) and if my carry is covered, it is covered., if not, Oh well. I normally OC, but I will not dress specifically for my carry. When it is cold, if I take my jacket off, I'm OC again. All but one of my holsters are leather OWB OC type holsters. I do have a shoulder holster for when I have a backpack on. I don't like it, but it has it's function.

    I have a CPL for two reasons...#1: the wait when you purchase #2: Winter, it has been as low as -27F at our place since we moved here 7 years ago. The Detroit won't cut that cold, down parka time. (it's 8F right now)

    It is very easy to get a CPL here in WA, resident or Not. $55.25 and about 15 minutes of your time at the local Sheriff's office. Worth the effort if only for the two reasons posted.
    Last edited by hermannr; 01-28-2012 at 12:02 AM.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I wonder if they could consider your firearm concealed if you are wearing a clear plastic rain coat? It would be covered but visable.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I wonder if they could consider your firearm concealed if you are wearing a clear plastic rain coat? It would be covered but visable.
    Hmm...unless the view was obstructed by a collection of water vapor or rain drops, I wouldn't think so. You just never know with some LEOs however.

    But interesting thought.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Do yourself a favor, get your CPL, problem solved.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Do yourself a favor, get your CPL, problem solved.

    Agreed. It makes it unnecessary to remove, unload, and re-holster before getting on a bus or into any other vehicle. You then don't have to worry if too much of your clothing covers your weapon.

    It was discussed a long time ago that "if a normal/prudent person could readily discern that the object was a firearm, then it couldn't be considered concealed."

    But then there are some "wingnuts" that want everyone to believe that a holster is a form of concealment.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Better yet lets lobby to get rid of CPL requirements in this state and go constitutional carry.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Better yet lets lobby to get rid of CPL requirements in this state and go constitutional carry.
    Better yet, National Constitutional Carry. Oh wait, we're supposed to have that already in the 2A.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Ok thanks, I suppose a cwp is in order. Now to derail my own thread instead of a new one, I have another OC question. I know their is a list of OC friendly businesses but do you guys always check that list or do you assume that every business that you frequent is OC friendly until the manager/owner tells you differently?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airon View Post
    Ok thanks, I suppose a cwp is in order. Now to derail my own thread instead of a new one, I have another OC question. I know their is a list of OC friendly businesses but do you guys always check that list or do you assume that every business that you frequent is OC friendly until the manager/owner tells you differently?
    I go about my life. I don't check and I've never been asked to leave. The only exceptions I have are the mall.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airon View Post
    Ok thanks, I suppose a cwp is in order. Now to derail my own thread instead of a new one, I have another OC question. I know their is a list of OC friendly businesses but do you guys always check that list or do you assume that every business that you frequent is OC friendly until the manager/owner tells you differently?
    I don't plan my day around no carry businesses.

    If they don't want my money, they can post it in a way that's obvious or tell me themselves. The only exception is for businesses that have made it known through overt advertising (such as Peets Coffee, or California Pizza Kitchen, to name a few) or mistreatment of those who carry, that they don't want the business of legally armed citizens.

    I will happily oblige, as there is no such thing as a product or service in this area that I cant get elsewhere.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    I concur with others here. I'll check the friend foe site every so often to see if there have been any changes lately however I do not make it a point to check and create a plan for the day. I go about my day, without problems like anyone else. If I run into a sign, I go else where.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airon View Post
    Ok thanks, I suppose a cwp is in order. Now to derail my own thread instead of a new one, I have another OC question. I know their is a list of OC friendly businesses but do you guys always check that list or do you assume that every business that you frequent is OC friendly until the manager/owner tells you differently?
    First, in WA it is a concealed PISTOL license (CPL) not ""W" (weapons). Only works for a pistol, not a knife or anything else. Just so you are aware. I would hate to think you got your CPL and thought it covered that big clasp knife..OK?

    As for businesses, there are actually very few (that I have run into) that object to OC or CC. I have my CPL, but OC most of the time (except now when I am wearing a coat for the cold weather)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airon View Post
    Ok thanks, I suppose a cwp is in order. Now to derail my own thread instead of a new one, I have another OC question. I know their is a list of OC friendly businesses but do you guys always check that list or do you assume that every business that you frequent is OC friendly until the manager/owner tells you differently?
    If you are new to OC and want to feel comfortable it is a good idea to check the list. I don't I just carry everywhere until asked to leave which never happens.

    The most important thing in my opinion is to Know you are right and you belong then others will pick up on that confident vibe and feel comfortable around you.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Better yet, National Constitutional Carry. Oh wait, we're supposed to have that already in the 2A.
    You are correct that is better yet now just to get judges and citizen juries to nullify all the anti 2A laws.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I go about my life. I don't check and I've never been asked to leave. The only exceptions I have are the mall.
    The mall and Costco
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    The mall and Costco
    I have NEVER been approached or talked to at ANY Costco EVER. In fact, I just spent 2 hours there yesterday with no problems and I walked past several employees.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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    I actualy work at COSTCO and I have only seen one OC'er and he was simply asked by management to please conceal it which he was happy to do. COSTCO is uber liberal but still a pretty good place to work. A few weeks ago a shoplifter pulled a gun on several employees when confronted. Apparantly he didnt know about our no firearms policy

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airon View Post
    I actualy work at COSTCO and I have only seen one OC'er and he was simply asked by management to please conceal it which he was happy to do. COSTCO is uber liberal but still a pretty good place to work. A few weeks ago a shoplifter pulled a gun on several employees when confronted. Apparantly he didnt know about our no firearms policy
    That is because no such written policy exists. It is not written in the membership agreement, it is not a posted property, it simply does not exist unless it occurs.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Well maybe not for you but im not even allowed one locked in my vehicle or anywhere on company premises.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airon View Post
    Well maybe not for you but im not even allowed one locked in my vehicle or anywhere on company premises.
    Don't park on the company premises.
    Live Free or Die!

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