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Thread: No More Open Carry at Golden Corral?

  1. #1
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    No More Open Carry at Golden Corral?

    Well, first off, I've been gone for about six months (life can get in the way and I am sorry) I've been trying to keep up with everything. Anyway, I was out to my annual birthday dinner with my family and we went to Golden Corral (on Woodmen and Powers) and after getting completely through our meal and mostly through dessert, the Manager came up to me and asked me if I had a concealed carry permit. Having not really paid attention to the man beforehand because he was wearing a Golden Corral uniform, I didn't catch it the first time and had to ask him what he meant. He repeated himself and I asked him when there was a shift in the management's position. He said that according to his higher ups that it had always been their policy to allow open carry, but only with a concealed carry permit. He then said he didn't need to see it, just for me to affirm that I had one. I admitted that I didn't and he said I would have to take the gun outside. I told him that that was fine and that I wouldn't be back... Okay, so I overreacted a bit...

    I went outside, waiting for everyone to finish up their desserts and meals and what-have-you, and had a cigarette. This gave me time to contemplate what to do next. Come home and cry about it, or go back and talk to him and try to figure out why. So I locked my gun the truck and went back in. He was on his way out for the night when I got back inside. From there he told me that he wouldn't have approached me if there hadn't been a complaint from another patron. I told him that I understand and that when you get down to it, businesses are in a lose lose situation there. They get to lose the complaining party's business, or the other party's business. He said that he was going to check with CSPD about the laws regarding open carry and that he would also talk to his superiors and see what they should do about it beings it is legal.

    Anyway, in the end I have to call him tomorrow and find out what he's got for me and see what they are going to do from here on out about open carry.

  2. #2
    Regular Member alang's Avatar
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    It could be interesting with some of us planning on meeting up at the Golden Corral in Aurora. We'll have to see if they approach it the same way, or if they will just be happy to have the business.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alang View Post
    It could be interesting with some of us planning on meeting up at the Golden Corral in Aurora. We'll have to see if they approach it the same way, or if they will just be happy to have the business.
    Howdy Amigo!
    We had a meet up at the GC in Aurora back around August. They were very welcoming and accomodating. No problem at all.
    I do not anticipate any issues today either.

    Guess we'll find out. Obviously, I'll go out there early to ensure their attitude is still consistent.
    And if it ain't, there is another location not far away that never hassled me about OC in their establishment.

    Hope to see you there.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  4. #4
    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    There's absolutely no way that a private party can require you to have a permit to carry. Either they allow carry in their store or they don't. The manager is 100% in the wrong and you should be talking to corporate.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Regular Member Jonathan Hoff's Avatar
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    We just spent a few hours atagolden corral today and we were open carrying and saw no issues. As the post above says id betalking to corprate

  6. #6
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    We had a terrific time at Golden Corral in Aurora. The folks who run the place were gracious and accomodating.
    When our party grew larger with later arrivals, they allowed us to move to larger tables and we pretty much dominated the whole south end of the wall!

    If you ran into an individual who told you your sidearm had to go, he was indeed in the wrong. If somebody had complained, he should have explained that you were perfectly within your rights to carry and no permit is required for you to do so. He should have handled the situation differently. Guess he decided it was simply easier to roust you than explain to the person who complained what the score is under our laws.

    Anyhow, for those of you that missed our meet-up, you missed a fun time.
    The food was not bad either.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I believe this guy was mistaken and corporate will straighten out their policy. GC is one of the most pro-military businesses out there and pro-freedom. And especially in COS, this makes no sense. I am very interested in the outcome, Zack.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  8. #8
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    Well, I talked to Rick and he said his VP of Operations said that if a customer complained they would have to ask me to leave, but otherwise carry on. I will definitely call corporate tomorrow. It just doesn't completely make sense to me as they have always shown a great respect for carry and they have never shown any anti tendencies. Thanks for talking me through this guys. Your advice has been helpful.

  9. #9
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    ...if a customer complained they would have to ask me to leave...
    After giving our NRA course a bunch of instructors (and students if they wanted to join us) would OC at the Western Sizzlin that used to be at Cimarron (highway 24) and 8th in the 'springs. One night a patron complained. The manager immediately offered to refund the patron's cost for dinner if they would like to leave.

    Here are a couple thoughts on the situation:

    • If the patron thought that the person carrying the gun was dangerous, point out to the manager that they should be horribly insulted that a patron would send them into harms way (in the offended patron's eyes) by asking the manager to confront an armed person and asking them to leave.
    • Point out, or complement the manager on realizing just how safe and level headed you appear to be -- after all, if he had perceived you as dangerous, he wouldn't have risked his life asking an armed person to leave.
    • If all that fails, point out that leaving the gun out in the car isn't an option. He can allow you to stay, or he can ask you to leave, in which case you and your entire party demands a refund, since the contractual agreement you entered when you came (all you can eat for $) is being withdrawn voluntarily by the manager.


    It might also be interesting to put this manager into contact with the manager up in the Denver area where the OC get-together recently happened to see if that helps.

    O2
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 01-30-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    He can allow you to stay, or he can ask you to leave, in which case you and your entire party demands a refund, since the contractual agreement you entered when you came (all you can eat for $) is being withdrawn voluntarily by the manager.
    You been here four hours! You go now!

  11. #11
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    You been here four hours! You go now!
    But we only halfway through with our game of Monopoly...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    Well, I talked to Rick and he said his VP of Operations said that if a customer complained they would have to ask me to leave,
    This oft-used excuse makes me sick to my stomach. It smacks of cowardice while attempting to hide behind "customer service" when in reality they're simply reaching for a convenient escape from the spotlight. Based on this "reasoning", if a customer complained about black people being in the restaurant (or bald people, or tall people, or people wearing a certain brand of shoes... take your pick) Rick and his VP-Ops would then ask them to leave? After all - the rationale is "someone complained" and it seems to matter not whether the target of the complaint is acting legally or not.

    Please Rick, try that with a black patron and see where it gets you. Like black citizens, OCers are not second-class citizens and we don't deserve to be treated like it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    You been here four hours! You go now!
    Howdy Mahkagari!
    HOOOWWWWLLLLLLLLL!
    I don't know how many other folks recognized that reference, but I surely did.
    Thanks for the grins.
    Now to wipe the monitor down.

    I hate spewing Pepsi through the nostrils to start with, so thanks for that little thrill!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    He said that according to his higher ups that it had always been their policy to allow open carry, but only with a concealed carry permit.
    That's like saying they allow people to drive a lawn-mower, but only with a drivers license. Two different animals.

    He then said he didn't need to see it, just for me to affirm that I had one. I admitted that I didn't and he said I would have to take the gun outside.
    I'll OC there some time in the next couple of days and see what's up. CHPs only cover CC. They have nothing to do with OC, a right afforded to all people here in Colorado, with very few exceptions.

    From there he told me that he wouldn't have approached me if there hadn't been a complaint from another patron.
    Ask if he'd rather have honest, law-abiding citizens as patrons or mere whiners... Seriously, you might ask him, "Did you inform your customer that Open Carry is legal here in Colorado?" That's not only the truth, but it puts it back on the manager.

    I told him that I understand and that when you get down to it, businesses are in a lose lose situation there. They get to lose the complaining party's business, or the other party's business.
    Not at all! I see it as a win-win situation. You might ask him, "Did you inform your customer that Open Carry is legal here in Colorado?" That's not only the truth, but it puts it back on the manager, as well as the complainant, with the point of discussion going to ground where it belongs - with the law. The law says Open Carry is legal, and that's a good thing. Hopefully, both the manager and the customer will learn something new.

    He said that he was going to check with CSPD about the laws regarding open carry and that he would also talk to his superiors and see what they should do about it beings it is legal.
    I'm definitely OCing there sometime in the next couple of days.
    Last edited by since9; 02-08-2012 at 02:13 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    Well, first off, I've been gone for about six months (life can get in the way and I am sorry) I've been trying to keep up with everything. Anyway, I was out to my annual birthday dinner with my family and we went to Golden Corral (on Woodmen and Powers) and after getting completely through our meal and mostly through dessert, the Manager came up to me and asked me if I had a concealed carry permit. Having not really paid attention to the man beforehand because he was wearing a Golden Corral uniform, I didn't catch it the first time and had to ask him what he meant. He repeated himself and I asked him when there was a shift in the management's position. He said that according to his higher ups that it had always been their policy to allow open carry, but only with a concealed carry permit. He then said he didn't need to see it, just for me to affirm that I had one. I admitted that I didn't and he said I would have to take the gun outside. I told him that that was fine and that I wouldn't be back... Okay, so I overreacted a bit...
    I think you UNDERREACTED. You should have said 'Are you asking me to leave before I'm finished with my meal?' If he said yes, then you reply, ok then I request a refund of the entire price of the meal since I was not allowed to finish eating. I suspect he'd say 'oh, uh, ok, well next time...'.

    Make him put his money (or lack of) where his mouth is.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I'm definitely CCing there sometime in the next couple of days.
    Figure out the day of the week the OP had the problem, publish it and maybe we can turn it into an OC get-together since I only live a few miles from there.

    O2

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I'm definitely CCing there sometime in the next couple of days.
    Um, I think the point here is OC, not CC.

  18. #18
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Um, I think the point here is OC, not CC.
    Didn't even catch the "CC", my eyes just translated it to "OC"!

    O2
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 02-01-2012 at 12:44 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Somebody explain to me why a private business cannot set whatever policy the want regarding allowing OC and/or CC within their establishment.

    In my dealings with Golden Corral, I have determined that many of the restaurants are franchise operations and have been told that corp. allows the franchisee to set their own rules.

    We have two such in the Richmond area - one is decidedly pro self-defense - we have had many meet n' greets there. The other not so much - the manager said if another customer complains.....I'm a member of NRA......Why don't you darn guys just cover it up and stop pushing things.

    Guess which one we don't go to anymore. Still bottom line: Its his operation and he gets to make the rules.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    It was a Friday, I plan on going back soon as I have to take a friend to dinner and that's her favorite place to eat. Also, I have put in an email (no phone number I could find) to corporate and have been waiting on their response (I will be forced to get a number if I don't hear from them on Monday). When I called Rick back he said I would be more than welcome back, OC and all, as long as nobody complained.

    When we were talking (not sure if it was at the restaurant or on the phone) he said that it would be the same as if someone came in with profanity on their shirt of if someone were being belligerent. I took the latter as an insult, but I was trying to not get upset so I didn't say anything. I see a lot of things I could have done differently, and some that I actually wish I would have done differently.

    As for putting him into contact with the manager in Aurora, that may not be a bad idea, but I would like to talk to corporate first just to know where exactly the stand on the subject. Again, thank you guys for your input and I am processing all of it.

    As an aside, how many run-ins have you all had out here in the springs and east of the springs with businesses and people saying something? It seems like I have an extreme amount of bad luck with getting asked to leave lol.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    It was a Friday, I plan on going back soon as I have to take a friend to dinner and that's her favorite place to eat. Also, I have put in an email (no phone number I could find) to corporate and have been waiting on their response (I will be forced to get a number if I don't hear from them on Monday). When I called Rick back he said I would be more than welcome back, OC and all, as long as nobody complained.
    ---snip---
    Corporate Headquarters
    Golden Corral Corporation.......Contact Us
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    919-781-9310
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    When we were talking (not sure if it was at the restaurant or on the phone) he said that it would be the same as if someone came in with profanity on their shirt of if someone were being belligerent.

    As an aside, how many run-ins have you all had out here in the springs and east of the springs with businesses and people saying something? It seems like I have an extreme amount of bad luck with getting asked to leave lol.
    Howdy Amigo!
    So.... what is he saying? That open carry equates equally with belligerence? Or with profanity, as if the act of carrying equals obscenity? Really? He's reaching that deep to back his stand?

    I'd be inclined to ask if a peace officer walked in, carrying openly, whether he'd be asked to take it outside? Or if a complaint came from another customer, whether the officer would be asked to stow his firearm in the car or otherwise conceal it? I'll wager the answer would be negative. In reality, we are all "peace officers" if you wanna stretch terms to the breaking point, as in opene carry being equal to profanity or beligerence! We all have the authority to make an arrest if we observe a crime taking place. Few citizens are familiar with the laws pertaining to citizen's arrest, but each and every citizen of the state of Colorado has the authority to make an arrest when witnessing a crime.

    And I'd be further interested to visit that Golden Corral, and assuming a complaint came in, whether he'd ask me to deposit my weapon in the car... because I carry a badge. No... I ain't a cop, but I AM a Fugitive Recovery Agent. I arrest people. I've arrested quite a few already. Seeing my badge, my I.D., what then? While a local cop has arrest authority within his jurisdiction, I have my arrest authority from the federal decision in Taylor v. Taintor. My jurisdiction isn't limited to city boundaries, county lines or state borders. I can go wherever the fugitive is and take him into custody, so long as I abide by the laws of another state to which the fugitive may have travelled. So how would your manager handle my legitimate and lawful carry of a firearm?

    It is my opinion that the particular manager involved is venting his personal bias. How do you know a customer actually complained? Because he said so? What if there is no complaining customer, but just him saying such because he doesn't like people exercising their freedoms to carry?

    I think I will drop by that particular establishment on the 14th while in town! Maybe make a day of it and contact some bondsmen in the area to try drumming up some business. Maybe look for a fugitive or two while there! Maybe even make an arrest while enjoying my visit to the Springs. Sure... why not make a day of it and earn a bounty in the bargain?

    But I'd love to have him come to advise me of a complaint and ask me to take my handgun to my car. I would enjoy seeing the look on his face when I produce badge and I.D. Now what? He probably never thought things through, and would suddenly be confronted with a conundrum. What does he do with an FRA? Or a security cop who comes in armed? Or a street cop who comes in openly carrying? Where does he draw his line, and to what degree is it arbitrary on his part?

    I'll be at that gathering at Starbucks on the 14th, then after, I'll be headed for the GC in question to see what I may learn!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  23. #23
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Somebody explain to me why a private business cannot set whatever policy the want regarding allowing OC and/or CC within their establishment. ... Its his operation and he gets to make the rules.
    You'll get no argument from me, and I doubt anyone else. But we also have the right to try and change his opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Why don't you darn guys just cover it up and stop pushing things.
    Seems you're on the wrong board if you hold that opinion.

    O2

  24. #24
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    ...he said that it would be the same as if someone came in with profanity on their shirt of if someone were being belligerent. I took the latter as an insult...
    I'd take both as an insult. I agree, he's biased and he's digging.

    M-Taliesin, you want me to come in at the same time and complain about you to set it up?

    [unfortunately an empty offer -- I'll be needing to head into work after Starbucks]

    O2
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 02-05-2012 at 12:48 PM.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    You'll get no argument from me, and I doubt anyone else. But we also have the right to try and change his opinion.

    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    Why don't you darn guys just cover it up and stop pushing things.

    --Quote taken out of context & therefore misleading --
    This remark entered 2/5/12 by GS.
    Seems you're on the wrong board if you hold that opinion.

    O2
    That sir, is almost funny.

    You might want to reread my post - I was repeating what the Golden Corral manager said: if another customer complains.....I'm a member of NRA......Why don't you darn guys just cover it up and stop pushing things."

    Even if that wasn't clear/obvious to you, you might consider looking at my profile and past posts before you jump to such an absurd conclusion. I recognize that you have not had the benefit of a lengthy history here yet and as such do not know those of us that have been involved for some time in defending and promoting RKBA and notably OC.

    That and I am fairly well know as a Moderator on this board. In that capacity, I will tell you that OCDO does not limit, restrict or otherwise prevent postings to only those that agree with us. It is the subject material (OC specifically & guns generally) that is controlled - not the POV or personal opinion of the poster/user.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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