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Cite? Innocent Until Proven Guilty

stainless1911

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Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
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Davisburg, Michigan, United States
28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.
 
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rvd4now

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2011
Messages
239
Location
down river
28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

yes but what law says i must show the leo id.. and what law says i must give him the id in his hand
 

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
Act 372 of 1927


28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.
Sec. 5f.
(1) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol shall have his or her license to carry that pistol in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.
(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:
(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.
(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.
(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.
(4) An individual who violates subsection (1) or (2) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00.
(5) An individual who violates subsection (3) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined as follows:
(a) For a first offense, by a fine of not more than $500.00 or by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended for 6 months, or both.
(b) For a subsequent offense within 3 years of a prior offense, by a fine of not more than $1,000.00 and by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being revoked.
(6) If an individual is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this section, the court shall notify the department of state police and the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license of that determination.
(7) A pistol carried in violation of this section is subject to immediate seizure by a peace officer. If a peace officer seizes a pistol under this subsection, the individual has 45 days in which to display his or her license or documentation to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer. If the individual displays his or her license or documentation to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer within the 45-day period, the authorized employee of that law enforcement entity shall return the pistol to the individual unless the individual is prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. If the individual does not display his or her license or documentation within the 45-day period, the pistol is subject to forfeiture as provided in section 5g. A pistol is not subject to immediate seizure under this subsection if both of the following circumstances exist:
(a) The individual has his or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card in his or her possession when the violation occurs.
(b) The peace officer verifies through the law enforcement information network that the individual is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol.
(8) As used in this section, "peace officer" includes a motor carrier officer appointed under section 6d of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6d, and security personnel employed by the state under section 6c of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6c.
 

budlight

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
yes but what law says i must show the leo id.. and what law says i must give him the id in his hand

Take a look at 28.425f......if you are carrying under the authority of a CPL.

28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.
Sec. 5f.

(1) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol shall have his or her license to carry that pistol in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.

(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

(4) An individual who violates subsection (1) or (2) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00.

(5) An individual who violates subsection (3) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined as follows:

(a) For a first offense, by a fine of not more than $500.00 or by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended for 6 months, or both.

(b) For a subsequent offense within 3 years of a prior offense, by a fine of not more than $1,000.00 and by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being revoked.

(6) If an individual is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this section, the court shall notify the department of state police and the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license of that determination.

(7) A pistol carried in violation of this section is subject to immediate seizure by a peace officer. If a peace officer seizes a pistol under this subsection, the individual has 45 days in which to display his or her license or documentation to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer. If the individual displays his or her license or documentation to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer within the 45-day period, the authorized employee of that law enforcement entity shall return the pistol to the individual unless the individual is prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. If the individual does not display his or her license or documentation within the 45-day period, the pistol is subject to forfeiture as provided in section 5g. A pistol is not subject to immediate seizure under this subsection if both of the following circumstances exist:

(a) The individual has his or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card in his or her possession when the violation occurs.

(b) The peace officer verifies through the law enforcement information network that the individual is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol.

(8) As used in this section, "peace officer" includes a motor carrier officer appointed under section 6d of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6d, and security personnel employed by the state under section 6c of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6c.
 

rvd4now

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2011
Messages
239
Location
down river
It just says you have to show it.



show
   [shoh] Show IPA verb, showed, shown or showed, show·ing, noun

verb (used with object)
1.
to cause or allow to be seen; exhibit; display.


dis·play
   [dih-spley] Show IPA

verb (used with object)
1.
to show or exhibit; make visible: to display a sign

so does this mean i can hold it in my hand and not give it to them.. when they say can i see some id.. can i just show them and tell them to write down my id numbers
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
FredBear.jpg
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
dr todd, warchild

im thinking i can just show them.. idk how the leo would like that

I can't find it right now, but I seem to recall a case where a CPL holder handed his CPL and license to an officer and was successfully convicted of failure to disclose. I believe Steve Dulan was either involved in the case or was just passing the information on. I'm writing this on my phone now; I'll search for it when I get home to my computer. If anyone else can find it, I'll defer to them.

Ah, found it

http://www.ammoland.com/2011/08/01/...e-to-hand-over-my-cpl-card-stopped-by-police/
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Is there a cite for Innocent until proven guilty, or is the whole concept an urban myth?

According to a wiki author, it goes back at least as far as a compendium of Roman law ordered by Emporer Justinian in the 6th century. The idea then being more along the lines of the burden of proof is on the accuser, necessarily implying the accused was presumed innocent.

Interesting wiki article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocent_until_proven_guilty
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
If you are accused (even falsely) of CC in a PFZ like I was, you will get a letter from the board saying your CPL has been suspended long before you go to court. You are punished without trial, due process, or conviction. This goes against the second amendment, as well as the fifth amendment. If you are proven innocent in court, then, after jumping through some hoops, you can have your CPL back.

Guilty before proven innocent.
 

TheQ

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Aug 2, 2010
Messages
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Lansing, Michigan
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