Yep. Another one of them polls.

Fisherman said:

Equality and freedoms are for people. Not preferences. It's in their jeans and not their genes. It's a perversion and they need to get back in the closet or clean it. Want to do that kind of crap? Don't do it in public. Sorry, I don't do PC. Must not be "enlightened".

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You're absolutely right. What was I thinking?

You know, we should declare Christianity as the national religion and pass a law that requires all citizens to attend church services atleast once a week. While we're at it, let's also outlaw all other religions.

Afterall, the freedom of religion only applies to you if your religion is Christianity, amirite? I mean, that is what I am getting from you and Since9.

Jack House said:

You're absolutely right. What was I thinking?

You know, we should declare Christianity as the national religion and pass a law that requires all citizens to attend church services atleast once a week. While we're at it, let's also outlaw all other religions.

Afterall, the freedom of religion only applies to you if your religion is Christianity, amirite? I mean, that is what I am getting from you and Since9.

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Well, yea. You cannot just not trust the government, like the founders, and think that they should stay out of everything that they don't NEED to be in. Nope, If you have the same views as you and I then you are supporting gays, you're not limiting the rights of the government.

And you do know that homosexuality is everything wrong with our country don't you? Its not the lack of responsibility that everything portrays anymore, its not a super intrusive government, its not the lack of learning or discipline. It is two males having a loving relationship.

Fisherman said:

Equality and freedoms are for people. Not preferences. It's in their jeans and not their genes. It's a perversion and they need to get back in the closet or clean it. Want to do that kind of crap? Don't do it in public. Sorry, I don't do PC. Must not be "enlightened".

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Not much on freedom and free will eh? You are part of why Obama and his type win, petty tyrants can only help big tyrants, even if they try to oppose the big ones.

Washington State just passed through the House a equal marriage bill. Apparently the Senate will be much easier, and the Government is set to sign it. Obviously regarding this issue people here know where I stand.

Call it Preference, call it Choice, call it whatever a person chooses to call it, all Americans that are over the age of eighteen and have the capacity to understand what marriage is should be allowed to be married. Regarding marriage in a church, I am not sure what Gay person would be interested in marrying in a church but the church should not be required to marry any couple, including for racial or any other reason.

Now that I am typing this I should state that my partner and me have been together for fourteen years, and we have four children shared between us legally. The negative effect not being permitted to be married is huge. If, outside of Washington State, we were on a trip and were in a car accident, neither of us would be recognized as the spouse and could not make medical decisions. I have heard it before, "there are legal documents that you can draw up for things like that," yes, there are but unlike legal marriage, those documents can be disputed and thrown out, and they have been disputed and throw out.

Anyhoo.

As for it being a "choice": As you can see from my screen name and the picture I added, I was a soldier. In fact, I was a soldier for well over twenty-one years in the Regular Army, Alabama National Guard, and Active Reserve. I've been a Platoon Sergeant and an Acting First Sergeant.

I knew my people. I also knew which ones were straight and which ones were gay/lesbian/bi. I talked to them and I asked many of them the same question, "Why are you the way you are?" Not one could give me an answer because they did not know. They did know that they did not choose to be the way they were.

And, yes, my soldiers talked to me for the very simple reason that I did not sit in judgment on them because of their sexuality. In fact, those soldiers were some of my better soldiers. All I ever asked of them was that they keep their private lives just that: Private. I asked the same thing of my straight soldiers.

Yes, I'd serve with them again in a heartbeat.

Fisherman said:

Equality and freedoms are for people. Not preferences. It's in their jeans and not their genes. It's a perversion and they need to get back in the closet or clean it. Want to do that kind of crap? Don't do it in public. Sorry, I don't do PC. Must not be "enlightened".

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So why are you attracted to women? Did you say "you know, I really want to like girls, so I'm going to" or was it something that came to you as "wow, that person's kind of attractive"?

You can yell "it's a preference" all you want, but in the vast, vast majority of cases, you're wrong.

Beretta92FSLady said:

Washington State just passed through the House a equal marriage bill. Apparently the Senate will be much easier, and the Government is set to sign it. Obviously regarding this issue people here know where I stand.

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Other way, we just got the senate votes to pass it, the house was much easier. I was quite happy when my senator came out as a "yes" voter. An R that gets that government-supported inequality should not stand.

Now that I am typing this I should state that my partner and me have been together for fourteen years, and we have four children shared between us legally. The negative effect not being permitted to be married is huge. If, outside of Washington State, we were on a trip and were in a car accident, neither of us would be recognized as the spouse and could not make medical decisions. I have heard it before, "there are legal documents that you can draw up for things like that," yes, there are but unlike legal marriage, those documents can be disputed and thrown out, and they have been disputed and throw out.

Anyhoo.

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All this, and more. Many ask "why not just make everyone get a civil union." Hell, I used to say the same thing, because people put way too much weight into the word marriage. But that got me thinking, there's a reason so many people put that weight into it - there's a social and legal precedence in which "marriage" confers a meaning. People want to get legally married because the concept of that legal bond is important to them. Additionally, decisions in law almost uniformly refer to marriage and spouses. That legal precedence disappears in civil unions, and it leads to important things, such as the right to interstate property protection, mutual ownership, etc.

Personally, I'm happy to have met so many wonderful homosexual people who turned my view around, because I used to be against the whole thing. Yet the more I interacted with those who were just wired differently, the harder it was to hold the schism in my head of "well, I didn't choose to be straight, but they had to choose to be gay." Now I'm one of the staunchest advocates for equality, because we really are treating people unequally simply due to the way they were wired when they were born, and that is wrong.

Tawnos said:

So why are you attracted to women? Did you say "you know, I really want to like girls, so I'm going to" or was it something that came to you as "wow, that person's kind of attractive"?

You can yell "it's a preference" all you want, but in the vast, vast majority of cases, you're wrong.

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Tawnos said:

"well, I didn't choose to be straight, but they had to choose to be gay." Now I'm one of the staunchest advocates for equality, because we really are treating people unequally simply due to the way they were wired when they were born, and that is wrong.

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Fisherman said:

Equality and freedoms are for people. Not preferences. It's in their jeans and not their genes. It's a perversion and they need to get back in the closet or clean it. Want to do that kind of crap? Don't do it in public. Sorry, I don't do PC. Must not be "enlightened".

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SFCRetired said:

I also knew which ones were straight and which ones were gay/lesbian/bi. I talked to them and I asked many of them the same question, "Why are you the way you are?" Not one could give me an answer because they did not know. They did know that they did not choose to be the way they were.

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It is a preference. Humans have the ability to choose who they want to mate with. It is a fact that we choose what we truly want. I choose to be straight, others choose to be gay but lets call it what it really is, a choice. To the people that choose that lifestyle: Are you really saying that you didn't choose your partner that you had no choice in it? That sounds romantic, more like rape than love.

Tawnos said:

So why are you attracted to women? Did you say "you know, I really want to like girls, so I'm going to" or was it something that came to you as "wow, that person's kind of attractive"?

You can yell "it's a preference" all you want, but in the vast, vast majority of cases, you're wrong.

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Tawnos is correct here... I could most certainly NOT choose to be a homosexual because it is repulsive to me. However, so are olives. Other's enjoy olives... so be it.

Of course, this is not really the issue. Making the argument that someone is "wired" or "born" that way doesn't indicate a "right" or a "wrong". Some people are "wired" to be more susceptible to addictive drugs. Does this say anything about the morality of such actions?

The point here is that it is "belief system" dependent and the government should not be regulating preferences one way or the other.

georg jetson said:

Tawnos is correct here... I could most certainly NOT choose to be a homosexual because it is repulsive to me.

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See, you choose to mate with women because you are attracted to them and homosexuality repulses you. It is always a choice. You aren't "programed" to like dogs or cats more, you aren't wired to like this firearm over that, its not destiny that you are attracted to the sex you're attracted to. It is all a choice.

Tawnos said:

So why are you attracted to women? Did you say "you know, I really want to like girls, so I'm going to" or was it something that came to you as "wow, that person's kind of attractive"?

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Yes, isn't that what most people do?

09jisaac said:

See, you choose to mate with women because you are attracted to them and homosexuality repulses you. It is always a choice. You aren't "programed" to like dogs or cats more, you aren't wired to like this firearm over that, its not destiny that you are attracted to the sex you're attracted to. It is all a choice.

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Not sure if serious.

It may be a choice to act upon what you feel, but you're not making a choice whether you feel such attraction. You really "choose" to be straight? It's not something you just "are"?

Because I most certainly didn't choose, and though I do know sexually ambivalent people, they are very few and far between.

Somewhat like Georg, I would find engaging in homosexual acts repulsive. It doesn't appeal or fit or sound right in any manner to me. Why should I expect any of my gay or lesbian friends to feel differently about heterosexual acts? Seems an awfully self-centered point of view.

Let me see if I can summarize...

People can "choose" to act on their "desire". However, they cannot choose what their desires are. So... do we really have to figure out where peoples desires come from? Maybe it's "hardwired". Maybe it's upbringing... Maybe if we all get a PHD in psychiatry then we could all agree that we still don't know.

Hey I got an idea... this concept is way too complicated for us... let's let the government figure it out.

Tawnos said:

Not sure if serious.

It may be a choice to act upon what you feel, but you're not making a choice whether you feel such attraction. You really "choose" to be straight? It's not something you just "are"?

Because I most certainly didn't choose, and though I do know sexually ambivalent people, they are very few and far between.

Somewhat like Georg, I would find engaging in homosexual acts repulsive. It doesn't appeal or fit or sound right in any manner to me. Why should I expect any of my gay or lesbian friends to feel differently about heterosexual acts? Seems an awfully self-centered point of view.

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I am serious.

100% Sure that humans choose what they want. There isn't a set path for us, we make everything happen. What is in your mind you can control. If you like women, then that is a choice, don't try to act like its not. I am attracted to some women because they have some, or all, of the traits I like/want. I have complete control to figure out what I want. Am I just better than you at something, am I more in tune with my inner self, am I chosen by (if there is) God to be better than you? I strongly doubt it. So I am guessing that I am just a regular guy that don't believe in this destiny bull. You can't help what you're attracted to, I am sure you can.

well,,,,

You can't help what you're attracted to, I am sure you can.

.....................................................................................................
well,,, which is it?

I think people confusing attraction and practice. You do not choose who you are attracted to, you can not choose to be attracted to someone you are not attracted to and you can not choose not be to attracted to someone you are. You can choose whether or not you wish to pursue that attraction. But that is it. No one has a right to tell two consenting adults they can not pursue a relationship.

Jack House said:

I think people confusing attraction and practice. You do not choose who you are attracted to, you can not choose to be attracted to someone you are not attracted to and you can not choose not be to attracted to someone you are. You can choose whether or not you wish to pursue that attraction. But that is it. No one has a right to tell two consenting adults they can not pursue a relationship.

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That sums up why I wasn't sure if he was serious. The choice is in pursuit, not attraction. If someone thinks it's merely a choice, I offer to them the chance to try new things and see how they do with it. My guess is the reaction will be something like "no, I don't want to, I'm not attracted to any guys." But who knows, maybe I'm crazy.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if it's a choice or not. It's nobody else's business just like so many other things. What if the government decided to outlaw masturbation? What if they legislated that couples must have intercourse through a hole in a sheet?

I don't agree, however that it must be called marriage, or that it must not for that matter. A simple statute assigning the same weight and case law to a civil union is all that would be required.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

I am on the government shouldn't be involved in marriage crowd.

I do feel its wrong though to single out hetero sexual state licensed couples and afford them any special privileges above other couples regardless of their sexual orientation.

point is more equality to same sex relationships

is to have the same decision making benefits, medical, legal, etc., currently extended to those hetrosexual relationships. Imagine your life long partner being seriously ill (or traffic accident) and you have no say over their immediate care because you lack legal 'standing' provided by law through a few words conferred by 'marriage' blessings.

as previously mentioned, physicians, hospitals, etc., do not have to honor medical power of attorneys or stonewall your input while doing what they consider best for the patient. by the time you get appropriate management to interceed, your partner could be on 'life-suport' which is what you and your partner agreed would never be allowed. trust me, try getting someone off 'life-support' after it is started...imagine that nightmare !!

marriage the answer...truly not...however, enlightenment in changing the laws allowing the same medical, legal, etc., benefits to those in same sex relationships afforded to those opposite sex relationships would go a long way to providing equality that is being sought.

wabbit