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Thread: What To Expect When the U.S. Economy Finally Collapses...

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    What To Expect When the U.S. Economy Finally Collapses...

    Times are tough. They will get even tougher... the U.S. dollar is losing ground as an acceptable currency for International trade. But then, so are most national currencies, with the single exception of the Chinese yuan, which is being touted in the U.N. as a replacement for the dollar as the reserve currency (the "reserve currency" is that currency which is used for International trade.).

    Why is the dollar being devalued? Among the many reasons, two reasons immediately jump out at even the mentally insufficient in Washington D.C. (who choose to ignore it).
    1. Our national debt is moving ever-upward on the express elevator.
    2. Our government believes our economic salvation must take the form of:
    a. borrowing more money from China (which will immediately be consumed by U.S. "foreign aid") - thereby deepening our own debt
    b. printing more dollars - thereby reducing the buying power of the few dollars we may have because there is insufficient negotiable natural resource (gold, silver, diamonds, oil, etc) behind them.

    As of today, our national debt tops 15 trillion dollars. That means that every man, woman and child in the USA "owes" over $48,000 to the government. From a per taxpayer standpoint, the amount skyrockets to more than $134,000 per taxpayer. The per taxpayer figure is the only realistic one, since the government gets its money solely from the taxpayers. With an average annual income of $26,364, each U.S. taxpayer would have to forfeit 100% of his/her wages for 5.08 years to eliminate their personal portion of the national debt... if the deficit were to freeze at todays level! Unfortunately, the government will continue to spend like they really have money, and in 5.08 years the national debt will - in all likelihood - have increased! This is a serious "doom-and-gloom" scenario for American workers, with no relief in sight for not just several, but many generations.

    What can we expect in terms of practical effects from this doom-and-gloom scenario? As jobs become even more scarce and the unemployment rate continues its upward climb, times will become even more desperate. There is an axiom (of indeterminate origins) that states, "Desperate times call for desperate measures", and it is generally accepted as a truism. As civilized as we might like to think of ourselves, human beings still have a survival instinct, and when it moves into the forefront we will then (to paraphrase an old Chinese saying) certainly "live (or die) in interesting times".

    We can expect to witness the following behaviors - in no particular order:
    Extreme pressure will be brought to bear upon the elected officials of the federal government to resolve our financial calamity. This pressure will experienced by governments world-wide, since the financial crisis is currently projected to be global in scale.
    As unemployment grows, and food becomes scarce, outrageously expensive, or both, and people become unable to provide for their families, we can expect severe civil unrest, rioting, and a tremendous increase in criminal behaviors. Looting, assaults, burglaries, armed robberies and other forms of theft, will become so commonplace that law enforcement agencies will be overwhelmed.
    The "law of the land" will be "the survival of the fittest". Everyone - outside of the protected elite (government officials, corporate executives, the very wealthy, etc) - will become potential victims, and we will probably be further victimized by the imposition of martial law in an attempt to preserve whatever semblance of "peace" there may be.
    The exchange system will probably shift to the barter system, since the dollar will have little or no value. Food, fuel and medicines (and any means by which to acquire those items - i.e. weapons & ammunition) will become the primary "currencies".
    Farmers will be forced to guard their fields, and ranchers will have to protect their herds and flocks.
    OC and CC will necessarily become the "order of the day" for those who wish to see the next day (and those who dare to do so in the face of Martial Law).
    Food distribution centers and detention centers may be established by FEMA with the use of U.S. Army "Internment/Resettlement Specialists" (31E). The 31Echo specialists "are primarily responsible for day-to-day operations in a military confinement/correctional facility or detention/internment facility. I/R Specialists provide rehabilitative, health, welfare, and security to U.S. military prisoners within a confinement or correctional facility; conduct inspections; prepare written reports; and coordinate activities of prisoners/internees and staff personnel." The I/R specialty also includes "Provide command and control, staff planning, administration/logistical services, and custody/control for the operation of an Enemy Prisoner of War/Civilian Internee (EPW/CI) camp" and "command and control, staff planning, administration/logistical services, and custody/control for the operation of detention facility or the operation of a displaced civilian (DC) resettlement facility".
    (the red was added by me for emphasis - for details see: http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=292).

    The potential for a very ugly future does exist. Whether or not it becomes a reality depends upon so many variables that I can't even begin to list them. Although doom-and-gloom is not my favorite subject, reality is. This is simply the sharing of my reality as I see the world condition today. Another part of my reality is that it is better to be aware of potential dangers than to be surprised by their unexpected occurrence.

    I truly hope and pray that none of the preceding scenario ever happens... but I won't be taken by surprise if it does. Whaddaya think? (I can't wait to hear from the Kum-by-ya crowd on this one) Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 01-30-2012 at 01:16 PM.
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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    At least it wasn't a copyright violation.


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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Like you I agree that there is a distinct possiablity of the senerio you describe playing out. Expecially if our elected don't start listening to the people that put them there. I also thing 2012 could be the breaking point is someone is re-elected by dead people and the black panthers patroling the polling booths again.

    I think about reality and plan on using my hobby incase it gets extreme. I took a gun smith class and I'm an avid reloader. I have stores of ammo (incase Canada invades the USA) but also have a lot of powder, lead, brass, and primers to keep me busy. Ammo like gold, silver, food, medicine, and fuel will be in high demand if it gets to the point that we all hope it won't.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    For more on the economics of this, read Denninger or Zerohedge. Something is going to happen, when and how extreme is the question.

    http://market-ticker.org/

    http://www.zerohedge.com/


    Prepare, but don't freak out. If we are lucky, TPTB will come to their senses and we can look forward to a long period of austerity and low economic growth. If not, more debt will be issued and we will likely have collapse.
    Last edited by riverrat10k; 01-30-2012 at 01:53 PM.

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    Many farmers and ranchers already have to guard their herds and crops against varmints. Barter might come back some, but the real currency in hyperinflation is the real stuff. Metals. I know I'd accept gold, silver, copper and cupronickle coins as money; heck I'd even take zinc coins. Its the paper and electronic stuff that will not be used.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    FUD. I expect it will get worse as the election looms on the horizon with no electable republican candidate.TPub heads will begin to explode and it will just be a mess.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    All this hype and worrying; our economy is going to implode? mass hysteria? hyper inflation? No hope for us in the future ... All this sounds like the scare tactics used by Dubya and Obama, respectively, to lure us into the open.

    I look around and see the news, and papers playing out like no big deal, all this talk about our country collapsing, to me, is just talk. Do you all honestly think the entire place would sit idly by as the largest economy in the world went asunder? At best, IF anything was to occur, we'd just be like Greece, and rely on our allies, and other nations to give us indefinite loans, moreso than what we take in.

    At worst, our economy would be that of the Wiemar Republic. Massive inflation; a gallon of milk costing a hundred or more dollars. Massive unemployment akin to that of the great depression. Should that happen, we wouldn't be the only country to suffer. Look at how the world economy was affected when the Isolationist US had our great depression.

    Point being, all this banter about how our economy is going to collapse, and such destruction and everything, it's all just a bunch of hype meant to scare people into voting for one extreme, or the other. We're in a global economy, like it or not, We'll either sail through the hard times and come out strong, or go into another depression, plunge the entire world into another great depression, and pull out ahead and on top, like we have in the past.

    /end rant.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    All this hype and worrying; our economy is going to implode? mass hysteria? hyper inflation? No hope for us in the future ... All this sounds like the scare tactics used by Dubya and Obama, respectively, to lure us into the open.

    I look around and see the news, and papers playing out like no big deal, all this talk about our country collapsing, to me, is just talk. Do you all honestly think the entire place would sit idly by as the largest economy in the world went asunder? At best, IF anything was to occur, we'd just be like Greece, and rely on our allies, and other nations to give us indefinite loans, moreso than what we take in.

    At worst, our economy would be that of the Wiemar Republic. Massive inflation; a gallon of milk costing a hundred or more dollars. Massive unemployment akin to that of the great depression. Should that happen, we wouldn't be the only country to suffer. Look at how the world economy was affected when the Isolationist US had our great depression.

    Point being, all this banter about how our economy is going to collapse, and such destruction and everything, it's all just a bunch of hype meant to scare people into voting for one extreme, or the other. We're in a global economy, like it or not, We'll either sail through the hard times and come out strong, or go into another depression, plunge the entire world into another great depression, and pull out ahead and on top, like we have in the past.

    /end rant.
    Real unemployment is somewhere between 15-18%. Next time you grocery shop, look at the cost of what you are paying per ounce and what you were paying 5 years ago.

    It is better to be overprepared than underprepared.
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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    It is better to be overprepared than underprepared.
    Prepared for what? Read up on the Ludic fallacy, robustness--fragility--anti-fragility; read NN Taleb. If he's so smart then why ain't he rich? He is, he bailed ahead of the 2008 bust.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Oh trust me, I know well of the unemployment rate; I've been out of a job since August, and when I last applied at a factory, the recruiter mentioned she had hundreds of applicants before me.

    Price per ounce, yea its rough, especially when your feeding yourself, and two others on 200$ worth of food stamps per month.

    But still, what we have today is NOTHING like what media and bloggers are screaming about. End of the world prophecy is what all the hype is equated to. Somehow, someway, we're all going to die in a massive apocalypse if unemployment, or inflation gets above a certain percentage. Because, ya know, our body's are magically connected to the government and economy, and the slightest disruption causes everyone to go epically insane, and implode...

    I'm just trying to say, isn't it time to put all his madness at rest?

    The great depression didn't take ten years to finally happen and plunge the entire world into economic darkness... It happened almost over night, figuratively that is.

    What's going on now has been going on since Clinton was in office, steadily going down hill for almost twenty years. Some times fast, some times so slow it wasn't noticeable. Point being, wake up. stop living in a pipe dream, the more I see, hear, and read of people talking about end of the world comparisons like this, the more it makes me think that they WANT it to happen.
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 01-30-2012 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Because I cant live life with spelling errors.
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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    You're right, I WANT IT to happen and best on Obummer's watch and while I'm still hale and hearty enough to enjoy the schadenfreude of mass starvation of the most deserving.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Real unemployment is somewhere between 15-18%. Next time you grocery shop, look at the cost of what you are paying per ounce and what you were paying 5 years ago.

    It is better to be overprepared than underprepared.
    Along those same lines, look at the price of diesel fuel today. Diesel is the least refined commercial fuel available, yet it is priced above premium. We all KNOW why! Because all consumer goods, and many pieces of military equipment are transported primarily by diesel-powered vehicles - trains and big rigs. Why are our groceries, appliances, etc., costing more? Because transportation costs more, and if you "follow the money", so that the oil companies can continue to post tens of billions of dollars in profits every quarter! We can thank big oil for much of our personal financial crises, and NOT just at the pump! Pax...
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Oh trust me, I know well of the unemployment rate; I've been out of a job since August, and when I last applied at a factory, the recruiter mentioned she had hundreds of applicants before me.

    Price per ounce, yea its rough, especially when your feeding yourself, and two others on 200$ worth of food stamps per month.

    But still, what we have today is NOTHING like what media and bloggers are screaming about. End of the world prophecy is what all the hype is equated to. Somehow, someway, we're all going to die in a massive apocalypse if unemployment, or inflation gets above a certain percentage. Because, ya know, our body's are magically connected to the government and economy, and the slightest disruption causes everyone to go epically insane, and implode...

    I'm just trying to say, isn't it time to put all his madness at rest?

    The great depression didn't take ten years to finally happen and plunge the entire world into economic darkness... It happened almost over night, figuratively that is.

    What's going on now has been going on since Clinton was in office, steadily going down hill for almost twenty years. Some times fast, some times so slow it wasn't noticeable. Point being, wake up. stop living in a pipe dream, the more I see, hear, and read of people talking about end of the world comparisons like this, the more it makes me think that they WANT it to happen.
    I don't think most people are thinking it is the end of the world, but anyone can see that the crime rate is going up. People are getting desperate, what if your $200.00 in food stamps and all assistance just stopped. How would you feed your family? Would you turn to crime if your children where starving and nobody would or could help? I think most people see something happen more in the way of the French Revolution; where you have the real rich and people in Washington living off the backs of the average joe until something snaps and people start starving. This might result in anarcey or it might not, the key is to be prepared and have a plan if fuel stops, food becomes hard to obtain, or people just get stupid and decide to take what you have.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    but anyone can see that the crime rate is going up
    Correction: Crime rates are going down in America.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Along those same lines, look at the price of diesel fuel today. Diesel is the least refined commercial fuel available, yet it is priced above premium. We all KNOW why! Because all consumer goods, and many pieces of military equipment are transported primarily by diesel-powered vehicles - trains and big rigs. Why are our groceries, appliances, etc., costing more? Because transportation costs more, and if you "follow the money", so that the oil companies can continue to post tens of billions of dollars in profits every quarter! We can thank big oil for much of our personal financial crises, and NOT just at the pump! Pax...
    Read up on who makes more money, the companies or the government?

    http://www.marklevinshow.com/goout.a...it-per-gallon/

    And why is this happening?

    http://www.marklevinshow.com/goout.a...s_Stories.html
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Correction: Crime rates are going down in America.
    "Recently released FBI Violent Crime Statistics report that "preliminary January-through-June (2011) figures showed the number of violent crimes declined 6.4 percent from the previous year, led by a 5.7 percent drop in murders and a 5.1 percent decrease in rapes. In other violent crime categories, robberies declined 7.7 percent while aggravated assaults fell 5.9 percent. The FBI's regular statistical report did not give any reasons for the lower crimes nationwide."

    "FBI statistics showing violent crimes decreasing correlate with the popularity of state laws allowing the carrying of concealed firearms by private citizens." (ammoland.com) I would assume that the increase in OC is also having a significant impact upon the drop in violent crimes.

    Is it just a coincidence that in 1980 there were only one million concealed firearm permits in the USA, and that today there are over six million concealed firearm permits issued? Is it simply another coincidence that the FBI - an agency of the currently left-wing federal government - "did not give any reasons for the lower crimes nationwide"? Or, is it possible that the leadership of the FBI, fearing reprisal from within the liberal, Marxist, Socialist-"Progressive" Obama administration, opted not to suggest that contrary to the administration's position on gun control (which position is contrary to the Second Amendment), the vast majority of gun owners in our country are responsible, law-abiding citizens? Pax...
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    The point was simply to correct the widely held misconception that crime rates are on the rise. They're actually at the lowest they've been for like half a century.

    Afterall, as you've pointed out. Crime rates are declining at a very nice rate while ownership rates are sharply rising. Allowing the belief that crime rates are rising, no matter the reason, will negate any impact gun ownership may have had on their actual decline. And if that belief becomes widely accepted enough, then it will come back to bite us in the ass. Gun control proponents could very easily claim that all their theories about guns were right and we are now headed for a national crisis if something isn't done. It's not like they haven't done it before.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Read up on who makes more money, the companies or the government?

    http://www.marklevinshow.com/goout.a...it-per-gallon/

    And why is this happening?

    http://www.marklevinshow.com/goout.a...s_Stories.html
    Okay, I looked at both those, and still big oil is posting tens of billions of dollars in profits every quarter! And some Exxon blogger (not an official arm of Exxon) claims they are only making two cents per gallon? How many quintillions of gallons of fuel do they have to pump in 3 months - at two cents per gallon profit - to consistently make billions in profits? You really believe that? State and federal taxes combined comes to not quite $1 per gallon.

    We can trace the cost of almost everthing back to it point of origin, and taxes. Doing so doesn't make it any less expensive for the consumer. Medical care is a prime example of that. IF the medical schools didn't charge outrageous fees and tuitions, and IF the American parmaceutical industry sold their products in the USA for the same price they sell them to Mexico/Canada or almost anywhere else in the world, and IF the medical equipment manufacturers only marked up their product by 25%, and IF it didn't take doctors 20 years or more to pay for their education, and IF medical insurance companies were more reasonable in their policy pricing. That's a LOT of "IFs", but if they were to happen, perhaps nobody would see Obamacare as even desirable, much less LEGAL! Love isn't what (according to the old song) "makes the world go 'round"... GREED is! The accumulation of power is at the heart of all greed. The power to control - money, people, armies,governments... THE ENTIRE WORLD (in the case of the U.N.)! Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 01-30-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Along those same lines, look at the price of diesel fuel today. Diesel is the least refined commercial fuel available, yet it is priced above premium. We all KNOW why! Because all consumer goods, and many pieces of military equipment are transported primarily by diesel-powered vehicles - trains and big rigs. Why are our groceries, appliances, etc., costing more? Because transportation costs more, and if you "follow the money", so that the oil companies can continue to post tens of billions of dollars in profits every quarter! We can thank big oil for much of our personal financial crises, and NOT just at the pump! Pax...
    The price of oil is not high because Oil companies are large and making low margin profits. Saying "tens of billions in profits" hides that the cost of such a huge profit is tiny. So what if the largest company in the world makes 10 billion a quarter? its only a 1-3% profit, that's it. Most companies do far better margins.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    If we are lucky, TPTB will come to their senses and we can look forward to a long period of austerity and low economic growth. If not, more debt will be issued and we will likely have collapse.

    Actually a "long period of austerity" is EXACTLY the plan they've been working towards for the last 100 years.

    Their definition of "long period" (meaning eternity) and "austerity" (meaning planetary serfdom of 99% of the population AFTER they kill off 85% of the "useless eaters") may be a little different from your understanding of the words though...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-31-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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    My guess is a push for monetary hegemony--one planetary system of finance.

    Here is why I guess that.

    The politicians are in it for their own self-interests. They're going to keep doing what they've been doing--not making meaningful monetary and fiscal reform. Just look at the resistance Ron Paul is encountering from the establishment.

    The bankers are in it for their own self-interests. They're not going to dramatically curtail their money-making game(s) which were direct causes of the current mess.

    Basically, the central banks loan money created out of thin air to the governments, and the governments borrow from the central banks in order to finance their overspending.

    As the poster above said, something is going to happen. The only question is when and how bad.

    So, as things deteriorate, the bankers, who are already largely in control through their control of the central banks, are going to want to remain in control and/or try to get even more control.

    If you step into the banker's shoes for a moment, the obvious solution is to make a play for a single planetary currency under the control of one planetary central bank. The IMF or World Bank already floated the idea last year. Its already been thought of by the bankers.

    It was done once before--when the Federal Reserve was created. "Oh! Gloom! Financial doom! We bankers must have a central bank to prevent all this turmoil and protect people from insolvent banks and bank runs and monsters under the bed!" And, well, now we have a Federal Reserve aka central bank.

    Same old story. They only way to prevent all the bad guys (in this case financial bad guys) from wrecking the place is to give control to one entity--that will be the story line. "Its for your own protection." Of course, economic turmoil in individual countries will only serve to add to the justification and the urgency. "Yes! Save us! Erect your planetary central bank! Give us your stable planet-wide monetary unit!"

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    Regular Member deniedmyrights's Avatar
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    ?????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    The point was simply to correct the widely held misconception that crime rates are on the rise. They're actually at the lowest they've been for like half a century.

    Afterall, as you've pointed out. Crime rates are declining at a very nice rate while ownership rates are sharply rising. Allowing the belief that crime rates are rising, no matter the reason, will negate any impact gun ownership may have had on their actual decline. And if that belief becomes widely accepted enough, then it will come back to bite us in the ass. Gun control proponents could very easily claim that all their theories about guns were right and we are now headed for a national crisis if something isn't done. It's not like they haven't done it before.
    U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/wo...pagewanted=all

    There are more people in US prisons now than were in Stalin's gulags.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/101610576

    The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. At year-end 2009 it was 743 adults incarcerated per 100,000 population.

    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._United_States
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deniedmyrights View Post
    U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/wo...pagewanted=all

    There are more people in US prisons now than were in Stalin's gulags.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/101610576

    The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. At year-end 2009 it was 743 adults incarcerated per 100,000 population.

    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._United_States

    What you fail to correlate is that the VAST majority of those incarcerated in the US are in for "victimless crimes" such as drug possession, tax violations, and administrative infractions.

    According to the FBI's "Uniform Crime Report", violent crimes such as robbery, rape, assault and homicide have been on a steady decline for the last two decades, and are in sharp decline over the last decade.

    http://www.bjs.gov/content/glance/tables/viortrdtab.cfm

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm


    The "felonization" of everyday activities is the main reason for the massive increase in the prison population. It has gotten to the point, where, technically, it is nearly impossible to walk out of your house and go about a normal 24 hours of daily life without committing a few felones in the USA, even if you are the most conscientious, law-abiding citizen on the planet.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...830760842.html


    For instance, in MD, it is a felony for a MD resident to bring more than two packs (not cartons, PACKS) of cigarettes into the state that do not have MD tax stamps on them. In some states, "dumpster diving" is a felony.


    The PERCEPTION of increased crime is caused by the 24-hour news coverage, the media's contant fear-mongering, and the Fascist Corporate/Government program to instill feelings of fear, helplessness and perpetual vitimhood on the populace, in order to elicit support for increased control over and domination of the everyday life of each and every Citizen.

    Know the facts. Nearly EVERYTHING the media is telling you is a lie. WTFU...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-31-2012 at 01:16 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  24. #24
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    The point was simply to correct the widely held misconception that crime rates are on the rise. They're actually at the lowest they've been for like half a century.

    Afterall, as you've pointed out. Crime rates are declining at a very nice rate while ownership rates are sharply rising. Allowing the belief that crime rates are rising, no matter the reason, will negate any impact gun ownership may have had on their actual decline. And if that belief becomes widely accepted enough, then it will come back to bite us in the ass. Gun control proponents could very easily claim that all their theories about guns were right and we are now headed for a national crisis if something isn't done. It's not like they haven't done it before.
    I will concede the fact that OC and CC have made a difference in some criminals deciding to commit crimes. I also can tell you that within 200 miles of me crimes such as bank robberies, hold ups, muggings, and such have increased.

    Murders and Rape may have dropped but I also don't believe everything the FBI or other goverment angency tells me either. I go by what is actually happening around me. What I know is happening around me and not what the goverment blindly tells me. If crime has dropped so much then why do we have such a large population of inmates in our prison system. Shouldn't we have empty beds? A lot of people are barley hanging on with food stamps and handouts, I just wonder what it would take for some people to turn to crime to feed there kids if they suddenly stopped getting help from the goverment.

  25. #25
    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    ...If crime has dropped so much then why do we have such a large population of inmates in our prison system. Shouldn't we have empty beds? ...
    You can blame this on our wonderful "War on Drugs".

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