What To Expect When the U.S. Economy Finally Collapses...

Herr Heckler Koch · Jan 31, 2012

Venator said:
Why do drug addicts steal? To get money for more drugs, right? Legalize drugs the price goes down, also include cheap or free drugs provided by charities and governments and that issue is greatly reduced.

Spend money on drug rehabilitation and supplying cheap drugs and the all around problem of ancillary crimes due to illegal drug use is reduced.

Unfortunately we are on the meat-hook for their healthcare and welfare safety net - de facto if not de jure. The Libertarian planks will be viable only when we can spurn a druggie in the gutter for free, guilt free.

Why I am a conservative and not a libertarian.

Citizen · Jan 31, 2012

DocWalker said:
SNIP If crime has dropped so much then why do we have such a large population of inmates in our prison system.

Because the government has everybody looking in the wrong direction when considering crime.

Heh, heh, heh.

We are actually suffering from a huge crime wave of historic proportions. You just have to look at statistics that FBI does not compile.

The national debt has gone up trillions. Just recently, the debt limit was raised $1.4T. Vast, vast, vast criminality with millions of victims.

Social Security raked in billions last year, coercively, to feed a giant Ponzi scheme. Huge, huge, huge criminality with millions of victims.

Spending has gone up, paying government employees for all sorts of useless--and too often overlapping--government programs. Much, much, much criminality with millions of victims.

You get the idea. We're looking in the wrong place to identify the crime.

Daylen · Jan 31, 2012

Herr Heckler Koch said:
Unfortunately we are on the meat-hook for their healthcare and welfare safety net - de facto if not de jure. The Libertarian planks will be viable only when we can spurn a druggie in the gutter for free, guilt free.

Why I am a conservative and not a libertarian.

It would still be cheaper to give druggies free heroine and medical care until they die than what we are doing now. Wouldn't that be a fair compromise?

Dreamer · Feb 1, 2012

DocWalker said:
It would be like your parents telling you not to do drugs with a cigarette hanging out of their mouth and a beer in their hand.

Actually, the "War on Drugs" is more like your parents telling you not to use drugs, while they both shoot up 8-balls, snort lines of crystal meth off the backside of a 12-year-old Bosnian child sex slave supplied by DynCorp, while simultaneously selling a key of pot and a footlocker full of AK-47s to the local MS-13 dealer, all this being done while they fly half a ton of pure Columbian Cocaine into Mena Arkansas in a CIA-front-group owned Cessna, and have a team of AR State Troopers unload it into the trunks of their cruisers to take to the Governor's mansion in 1991.

Just sayin...

Dreamer · Feb 1, 2012

Daylen said:
It would still be cheaper to give druggies free heroine and medical care until they die than what we are doing now. Wouldn't that be a fair compromise?

Actually, with the exception of overdoses (mostly caused by the lack of regulated purity in the heroin supply), and opportunistic diseases (contracted because of poor living conditions caused by the criminalized lifestyle of addicts), the average lifespan of a heroin addict is only a few years shorter than the mean lifespan of non-drug-users in the US. Chronic heroin use under the conditions of a known purity of the drug and an otherwise healthy lifestyle, is no more physically debilitating than chronic cigarette smoking or chronic TV-Dinner eating.

Truth be told, there are a LOT of junkies that live well into their sixties in the USA...

Dreamer · Feb 1, 2012

Citizen said:
You get the idea. We're looking in the wrong place to identify the crime.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

(Standing Ovation!)

Daylen · Feb 1, 2012

Dreamer said:
Actually, with the exception of overdoses (mostly caused by the lack of regulated purity in the heroin supply), and opportunistic diseases (contracted because of poor living conditions caused by the criminalized lifestyle of addicts), the average lifespan of a heroin addict is only a few years shorter than the mean lifespan of non-drug-users in the US. Chronic heroin use under the conditions of a known purity of the drug and an otherwise healthy lifestyle, is no more physically debilitating than chronic cigarette smoking or chronic TV-Dinner eating.

Truth be told, there are a LOT of junkies that live well into their sixties in the USA...

That is why I'd rather just legalize it and leave em alone and on their own. However if they are in jail they are being fed, housed entertained and given medical care, with no drugs to shorten their lives. Plus, we have to pay for the DEA, that is a huge financial burden; and that isn't even adding up what locals spend on their police to do drug busts.

since9 · Feb 3, 2012

I'm amazed at the single-minded focus of the druggies on this forum...

So a discussion about a possible collapse of the U.S. Economy degenerates into yet another fruitless discussion about legalizing deadly drugs.

Nice... :banghead:

georg jetson · Feb 3, 2012

^^^^^^^^

The title to the above post seems to imply that those arguing against federal control of "drugs" must be "druggies".

...Really??? REALLY!!??

since9 · Feb 3, 2012

georg jetson said:
^^^^^^^^

The title to the above post seems to imply that those arguing against federal control of "drugs" must be "druggies".

"Unintentional fatal drug overdoses nearly doubled from 1999 to 2004 and were the second leading cause of accidental death in the United States in 2004, behind only automobile crashes, according to the Centers for Disease Control.
Deaths from accidental overdoses increased to 19,838 in 2004, from 11,155 in 1999, according to the CDC report, which was based on death certificate information."

So, you support unbridled illegal drug use and the resulting 20,000 annual deaths? By the way, only approximately half of the 20,000 is from illegal drugs. The other half is from prescription drugs, mostly painkillers.

georg jetson · Feb 3, 2012

since9 said:
"Unintentional fatal drug overdoses nearly doubled from 1999 to 2004 and were the second leading cause of accidental death in the United States in 2004, behind only automobile crashes, according to the Centers for Disease Control.
Deaths from accidental overdoses increased to 19,838 in 2004, from 11,155 in 1999, according to the CDC report, which was based on death certificate information."

I'm gonna assume your statistice are true... so what??? It's none of my business... and none of your either. Perhaps the "druggies" should be more safe BUT, that's THEIR prerogative.

since9 said:
So, you support unbridled illegal drug use and the resulting 20,000 annual deaths? By the way, only approximately half of the 20,000 is from illegal drugs. The other half is from prescription drugs, mostly painkillers.

I support you keeping your nose out of MY business.

Back to your "implication"... well??? Did you mean to imply that those arguing against federal control of "drugs" must be "druggies"?

since9 · Feb 3, 2012

georg jetson said:
I'm gonna assume your statistice are true... so what??? It's none of my business... and none of your either.

Whenever my taxpayer dollars are used to fund police/paramedic/fire/medical support for a druggie, as is usually the case, it most certainly is my business, and that of all other taxpayers as well.

Perhaps the "druggies" should be more safe BUT, that's THEIR prerogative.

Perhaps we should pass a law prohibiting offering any response whatsoever to help a known user of illegal drugs.

I support you keeping your nose out of MY business.

I support you keeping your druggie fingers out of my taxpayer dollars.

Back to your "implication"... well??? Did you mean to imply that those arguing against federal control of "drugs" must be "druggies"?

Oh! You're not a druggie? No worries. Then since you believe druggies are none of anyone's business, keep your nose of their business.

Since I believe otherwise, I'll butt in where I feel its necessary to help reduce illegal drugs here in my country, and I'll thank you to keep your nose out of that business, as well.

Daylen · Feb 3, 2012

since9 said:
"Unintentional fatal drug overdoses nearly doubled from 1999 to 2004 and were the second leading cause of accidental death in the United States in 2004, behind only automobile crashes, according to the Centers for Disease Control.
Deaths from accidental overdoses increased to 19,838 in 2004, from 11,155 in 1999, according to the CDC report, which was based on death certificate information."

So, you support unbridled illegal drug use and the resulting 20,000 annual deaths? By the way, only approximately half of the 20,000 is from illegal drugs. The other half is from prescription drugs, mostly painkillers.

Absolutely, I choose freedom over moral crusader tyranny every time. If someone wants to commit suicide from a drug overdose that is their decision not yours. If someone wants to partake in intoxicating, hallucinogenic or other type drugs, it is their body and does not harm you so therefore it is within their right to pursue happiness. Petty tyrants against drugs have always helped big tyrants against the right to bear arms.

georg jetson · Feb 3, 2012

since9 said:
Whenever my taxpayer dollars are used to fund police/paramedic/fire/medical support for a druggie, as is usually the case, it most certainly is my business, and that of all other taxpayers as well.

Agreed... we should NOT be funding such things!!

since9 said:
Perhaps we should pass a law prohibiting offering any response whatsoever to help a known user of illegal drugs.

Perhaps we should STOP passing effing LAWS with regards to helping ANYONE.

since9 said:
I support you keeping your druggie fingers out of my taxpayer dollars.

My druggie fingers??? How about YOUR "Jack-booted thug" "telling people how to live" fingers!!??

since9 said:
Oh! You're not a druggie? No worries. Then since you believe druggies are none of anyone's business, keep your nose of their business.

Since I believe otherwise, I'll butt in where I feel its necessary to help reduce illegal drugs here in my country, and I'll thank you to keep your nose out of that business, as well.

NO. You'll continue being a hypocrite using MY tax dollars telling ME and others how to live. You'll continue being a hypocrite using MY tax dollars creating TYRANNY.

Dreamer · Feb 3, 2012

since9 said:
"Unintentional fatal drug overdoses nearly doubled from 1999 to 2004 and were the second leading cause of accidental death in the United States in 2004, behind only automobile crashes, according to the Centers for Disease Control.
Deaths from accidental overdoses increased to 19,838 in 2004, from 11,155 in 1999, according to the CDC report, which was based on death certificate information."

So, you support unbridled illegal drug use and the resulting 20,000 annual deaths? By the way, only approximately half of the 20,000 is from illegal drugs. The other half is from prescription drugs, mostly painkillers.

If we legalized cannabis, a significant number of those prescription drug deaths would disappear, because people could and would use cannabis to treat a myriad of ailments rather than "prescription drugs" which come with thousands of dangerous side effects and lethal interactions with other prescription drugs, foods, and environmental chemicals.

Also, a significant number of those illegal drug overdoses are directly attributable to the higher-purity cocaine and heroin, and contaminated/improperly manufactured "designer drugs" dumped into US inner cities by the CIA, DEA and FBI during the Clinton and Bush administrations, so that they could fund their covert ops in Central America, Asia, and the Near East without asking for more money from Congress...

Dreamer · Feb 3, 2012

since9 said:
I support you keeping your druggie fingers out of my taxpayer dollars.

I don't hear anyone complaining about the tax dollars gleaned from all the ethanol-using "druggies", and the multi-billion dollar industry that revolves around "the Devils pisswater".

Just sayin'...

Citizen · Feb 4, 2012

I think using drugs is a really bad idea.

But, I think a far worse idea is giving government the power to cage human beings for using drugs.

As always, it is far more than just a question of "fighting" drugs. The equation must always include what government will do with the power once its got it. The so-called War on Drugs is a proven failure that has cost billions, helped militarize our police, and eroded the 4th Amendment. It is well past time for policy change.

jdholmes · Feb 4, 2012

Wow...the conversation is waaaaaaaaay off topic.

And all I can say to a few of the posters is, "Thou dost protest too much.".

Druggies are a plague on society.

I love some people love to throw that 'tyranny' word around anytime they are miffed they can't do something. Ridiculous. They wouldn't know tyranny if it kicked them in the balls.

Citizen · Feb 4, 2012

jdholmes said:
SNIP They wouldn't know tyranny if it kicked them in the balls.

Oh? Do you suppose a few fellas like John Adams, John Hancock, George Mason, or Thomas Jefferson were able to recognize it?

The Founders experienced less tyranny than we do today--less government intrusion by far than what we put up with. And, they kicked the king in the teeth over their tyranny.

Jack House · Feb 4, 2012

since9 said:
"Unintentional fatal drug overdoses nearly doubled from 1999 to 2004 and were the second leading cause of accidental death in the United States in 2004, behind only automobile crashes, according to the Centers for Disease Control.
Deaths from accidental overdoses increased to 19,838 in 2004, from 11,155 in 1999, according to the CDC report, which was based on death certificate information."

So, you support unbridled illegal drug use and the resulting 20,000 annual deaths? By the way, only approximately half of the 20,000 is from illegal drugs. The other half is from prescription drugs, mostly painkillers.

Oh dear God! ONE DEATH IS TOO MANY!

What To Expect When the U.S. Economy Finally Collapses...

Herr Heckler Koch

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