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Thread: Fashion Square Mall

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    Regular Member JesterP99's Avatar
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    Fashion Square Mall

    So, what is the deal with The Fashion Square Mall in Charlottesville being a no-gun mall? I mean, was it always this way or did something happen?

    I have been open carrying in Charlottesville for a few weeks now, all over town, never been given any trouble. So, what's so different about the mall? I know every store owner has the right to deny entry if you are carrying, but I don't know too many that choose to exercise that right.

    I have been thinking about why I open carry and I always come back to this. "I open carry because as a law abiding citizen (and I can't say that without thinking about the movie, Law Abiding Citizen), it is my right to carry a firearm because I refuse to be a victim,. And, to show that I am not a criminal, I choose to carry it on the outside, in plain sight."

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesterP99 View Post
    So, what is the deal with The Fashion Square Mall in Charlottesville being a no-gun mall? I mean, was it always this way or did something happen?

    I have been open carrying in Charlottesville for a few weeks now, all over town, never been given any trouble. So, what's so different about the mall? I know every store owner has the right to deny entry if you are carrying, but I don't know too many that choose to exercise that right.

    I have been thinking about why I open carry and I always come back to this. "I open carry because as a law abiding citizen (and I can't say that without thinking about the movie, Law Abiding Citizen), it is my right to carry a firearm because I refuse to be a victim,. And, to show that I am not a criminal, I choose to carry it on the outside, in plain sight."
    What gives you the impression that it is a "no guns" mall. I open carry in there all the time granted I have gotten the ugly eye once or twice from their rent-a-cop but I have never been told I can not carry in there
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Regular Member JesterP99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    What gives you the impression that it is a "no guns" mall. I open carry in there all the time granted I have gotten the ugly eye once or twice from their rent-a-cop but I have never been told I can not carry in there
    I feel like I have seen a sign on the door saying so. I guess I am wrong then. Hmm.

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesterP99 View Post
    I feel like I have seen a sign on the door saying so. I guess I am wrong then. Hmm.

    If you did I never have but just as a side note I "never" look for signs. Signs do not mean anything anyway you have to be asked to leave by the owner of the establishment or someone who is working under the direct authority of the owner ie. Store Security. There have been times I was in the mall for several hours including eating at the Red Robin several times and I have never had any problems.
    Last edited by Jay; 01-30-2012 at 08:13 PM.
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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Actually now that I think about I have never been asked to leave anywhere in Albemarle County or the City of Charlottesville while OC'ing. The only place I know that you will have a problem with OC'ing is with Buffalo Wild Wings.. I have never attempted because everyone says they are very anti-gun. You really are not missing anything because the two times I had to go there for something the food was awful. Oh yeah and UVA Grounds off limits as well.
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Regular Member JesterP99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    If you did I never have but just as a side note I "never" look for signs. Signs do not mean anything anyway you have to be asked to leave by the owner of the establishment or someone who is working under the direct authority of the owner ie. Store Security. There have been times I was in the mall for several hours including eating at the Red Robin several times and I have never had any problems.
    Well alright then. I know the signs don't have any legal president. I just thought those mall cops didn't like people with bigger weapons than them.

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    Regular Member JesterP99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Actually now that I think about I have never been asked to leave anywhere in Albemarle County or the City of Charlottesville while OC'ing. The only place I know that you will have a problem with OC'ing is with Buffalo Wild Wings.. I have never attempted because everyone says they are very anti-gun. You really are not missing anything because the two times I had to go there for something the food was awful. Oh yeah and UVA Grounds off limits as well.
    About the UVA grounds. Are the streets considered UVA or city? And what if the weapon in your POV?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Actually now that I think about I have never been asked to leave anywhere in Albemarle County or the City of Charlottesville while OC'ing. The only place I know that you will have a problem with OC'ing is with Buffalo Wild Wings.. I have never attempted because everyone says they are very anti-gun. You really are not missing anything because the two times I had to go there for something the food was awful. Oh yeah and UVA Grounds off limits as well.
    UVA grounds may only be off-limits to those associated with the university who are subject to their policy. I believe a check of the GMU case will reveal that the university's regulations may only have effect within the buildings themselves and not to the outside areas. Even UVA's new regulation only states that the gun ban is restricted to buildings, but again I'd have to check the regulation.

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    UVA grounds may only be off-limits to those associated with the university who are subject to their policy. I believe a check of the GMU case will reveal that the university's regulations may only have effect within the buildings themselves and not to the outside areas. Even UVA's new regulation only states that the gun ban is restricted to buildings, but again I'd have to check the regulation.
    In addition, the policy is relatively toothless (unless you're one of the employees, who UVa treats quite shabbily). It just says 'may be asked to leave'.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Here is the regulation for UVA

    B. Members of the university community. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by any university student, faculty, employee, trainee, or volunteer, except a law enforcement officer, on university property is prohibited.

    C. General public and visitors. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by the general public or visitors, except a law-enforcement officer, on university property in academic, administrative, athletic, entertainment, or student residence buildings, child care or dining facilities, or the University Medical Center, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational activities is prohibited.

    D. Exceptions. In the following circumstances, the Chief of the University Police Department, or his designee, may authorize in writing a person to possess, store, or use a weapon: (i) educational or artistic display, parade, or ceremony in connection with a university-sponsored activity (unloaded or disabled only and with other specified safeguards, if appropriate); (ii) official military or Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) activities; (iii) university contracted protection or security details; (iv) any university-approved training, course, or class; or (v) university personnel, other than law enforcement officers, required to possess a weapon as part of their official duties. A request for permission pursuant to one of the exceptions in this subsection shall be addressed in advance to the Chief of the University Police Department where it will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis in accordance with state and federal law, university policy, and the safety of the university community.
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Regular Member JesterP99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Here is the regulation for UVA

    B. Members of the university community. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by any university student, faculty, employee, trainee, or volunteer, except a law enforcement officer, on university property is prohibited.

    C. General public and visitors. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by the general public or visitors, except a law-enforcement officer, on university property in academic, administrative, athletic, entertainment, or student residence buildings, child care or dining facilities, or the University Medical Center, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational activities is prohibited.

    D. Exceptions. In the following circumstances, the Chief of the University Police Department, or his designee, may authorize in writing a person to possess, store, or use a weapon: (i) educational or artistic display, parade, or ceremony in connection with a university-sponsored activity (unloaded or disabled only and with other specified safeguards, if appropriate); (ii) official military or Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) activities; (iii) university contracted protection or security details; (iv) any university-approved training, course, or class; or (v) university personnel, other than law enforcement officers, required to possess a weapon as part of their official duties. A request for permission pursuant to one of the exceptions in this subsection shall be addressed in advance to the Chief of the University Police Department where it will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis in accordance with state and federal law, university policy, and the safety of the university community.
    But are those policies, or laws?

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesterP99 View Post
    But are those policies, or laws?
    they embody what was policy and is now regulation. i believe that once the regulation is recognized by the legislature, it carries weight of law. if i'm wrong, a forum expert will be along shortly to clarify.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    they embody what was policy and is now regulation. i believe that once the regulation is recognized by the legislature, it carries weight of law. if i'm wrong, a forum expert will be along shortly to clarify.
    I'm not an expert, but I believe I've seen them described as "having the force of law".

    However, it should be noted that as far as I know and was last aware, each of these institutions cheated in the process of establishing these regulations when they by-passed the public comment period, supposedly relying on an exemption that allows the by-pass only for matters regarding academic and student discipline type issues. I don't have the rules in front of me so I can't quote verbatim.

    I thought there was going to be some litigation at some point to challenge the validity of these new regulations based on the cheating, but I think the GA session took top priority, and the hope that we could fix this there. If that ultimately fails, then hopefully someone will be filing suit very soon after. It's clear cut plain-text English, they really don't have a legitimate defense to excuse their abuse of the regulation procedure.

    Again... as far as I understand...

    TFred

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    'force of law' sounds right, my mistake.

    thanks for reminding me... i also seem to recall now, that they pulled a fast one re: the public hearing/commentary prior to adoption. still, doesn't the ga need to do something to formally recognize the regulation and have it added to the administrative(?) code?
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    'force of law' sounds right, my mistake.

    thanks for reminding me... i also seem to recall now, that they pulled a fast one re: the public hearing/commentary prior to adoption. still, doesn't the ga need to do something to formally recognize the regulation and have it added to the administrative(?) code?
    No, and that is the problem. These appointed bozos are controlling the behavior of citizens of the Commonwealth with an authority that is equivalent to law, but without the legislative process and public review that is required by the very form of government that makes us who we are.

    It's quite disgusting the more you think about it.

    TFred

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    No, and that is the problem. These appointed bozos are controlling the behavior of citizens of the Commonwealth with an authority that is equivalent to law, but without the legislative process and public review that is required by the very form of government that makes us who we are.

    It's quite disgusting the more you think about it.

    TFred
    got it, thanks for clarifying. infuriating!
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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