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Thread: Drinking and Carrying - something you should consider before you do!

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    Regular Member IdahoOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Drinking and Carrying - something you should consider before you do!

    What if you do have to shoot someone while carrying and you have been drinking?
    Two of the primary purposes in OC'ing are: protecting life; and, promoting OC, so we don't lose it to the anti-gun left (that is usually their first and easiest target and victim).
    If you are under the influence when you are driving a car and someone runs into you, in all probability, you will take the fall criminally and civilly.
    If you are under the influence and you are required to protect your life or someone else’s, the first consideration of the investigating officers and city or county prosecuting attorney will be; would you have shot the person if you were not under the influence. Whether or not alcohol did influence the shooting, you will still be defending yourself for being under the influence when discharging your weapon, either in criminal or civil court or both. Even one beer can be used against you.
    I spent 40 years as a process server and private investigator serving people civil summons for traffic accidents that they were involved in; and they were being held responsible for the accident because they were under the influence. Right or wrong, your insurance company will not fight the lawsuit in court; it is easier to settle out of court and raise your premiums.
    You WILL be sued and or prosecuted if you shoot someone while you are under the influence, whether you are right or wrong. It is better to not drink if you are carrying and have nothing impeding your decision to use your gun if it is necessary. And similarly, your homeowner's insurance will not defend you; they will pay out to the person suing you and raise your premiums.
    Better to be safe than sorry!
    Tony@IdahoOpenCarry.org
    Last edited by IdahoOpenCarry; 01-31-2012 at 07:50 PM.

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    Considering the alternative is dying I'll take my chances in court.

    If I carry after drinking and my life is not threatened then I will not be in court; assuming I have not violated any laws. If I don't carry after drinking and my life is threatened, I might die then I will not be in court. The only time I would be in court is if I am alive after having successfully defending my life. The same can happen in the home, does this mean one should lock all firearms away after having a drink, and simply hope it will be ok? This is a fallacy promoted by two groups those against alcohol consumption and those against carrying firearms. The reasons are simple and easy to discern so I'll leave that to the readers for now.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoOpenCarry View Post
    What if you do have to shoot someone while carrying and you have been drinking?
    Not even an issue for me. I don't drink. Ever. It's the same as if there was a thread titled "Smoking Cigars and Carrying". I don't do that either, ever. Smoke that is.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoOpenCarry View Post
    ...Two of the primary purposes in OC'ing are: protecting life; and, promoting OC...
    As an individual, I do not carry to promote it. I only carry for protection. Promotion is a completely separate and incidental issue for me.

    I have no problem with those who carry with the purpose of also promoting it.
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    Founder's Club Member Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    As an individual, I do not carry to promote it. I only carry for protection. Promotion is a completely separate and incidental issue for me.

    I have no problem with those who carry with the purpose of also promoting it.
    Whether it is a primary purpose or not makes little difference - we are seen, heard, and judged by others. In that process we become good or bad examples of our community - many are frequently judged based on the image of one.

    The very act of carrying for personal protection is at the very least a silent endorsement; therefore a promotion. As an instructor you directly promote to others the personal responsibility of carrying for self-defense in both your words and deeds/by example.

    IMO - it is impossible to divorce oneself totally from that connection/relationship.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoOpenCarry View Post
    What if you do have to shoot someone while carrying and you have been drinking?
    Two of the primary purposes in OC'ing are: protecting life; and, promoting OC, so we don't lose it to the anti-gun left (that is usually their first and easiest target and victim).
    If you are under the influence when you are driving a car and someone runs into you, in all probability, you will take the fall criminally and civilly.
    If you are under the influence and you are required to protect your life or someone else’s, the first consideration of the investigating officers and city or county prosecuting attorney will be; would you have shot the person if you were not under the influence. Whether or not alcohol did influence the shooting, you will still be defending yourself for being under the influence when discharging your weapon, either in criminal or civil court or both. Even one beer can be used against you.
    I spent 40 years as a process server and private investigator serving people civil summons for traffic accidents that they were involved in; and they were being held responsible for the accident because they were under the influence. Right or wrong, your insurance company will not fight the lawsuit in court; it is easier to settle out of court and raise your premiums.
    You WILL be sued and or prosecuted if you shoot someone while you are under the influence, whether you are right or wrong. It is better to not drink if you are carrying and have nothing impeding your decision to use your gun if it is necessary. And similarly, your homeowner's insurance will not defend you; they will pay out to the person suing you and raise your premiums.
    Better to be safe than sorry!
    Tony@IdahoOpenCarry.org


    Blanket statements like "You will be sued and or prosecuted" should be closely watched. I do not know what the laws are in your state, but I am very familiar with them in mine. In the the state of MO, you have the right to defend yourself, even if intoxicated.

    Missouri Revised Statutes
    Chapter 571
    Weapons Offenses
    Section 571.030

    Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.

    (5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;

    A civil case may result from any shooting, whether alcohol is involved or not.
    AUDE VIDE TACE

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    Considering the alternative is dying I'll take my chances in court.

    If I carry after drinking and my life is not threatened then I will not be in court; assuming I have not violated any laws. If I don't carry after drinking and my life is threatened, I might die then I will not be in court. The only time I would be in court is if I am alive after having successfully defending my life. The same can happen in the home, does this mean one should lock all firearms away after having a drink, and simply hope it will be ok? This is a fallacy promoted by two groups those against alcohol consumption and those against carrying firearms. The reasons are simple and easy to discern so I'll leave that to the readers for now.
    We have a winner!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    As an individual, I do not carry to promote it. I only carry for protection. Promotion is a completely separate and incidental issue for me.

    I have no problem with those who carry with the purpose of also promoting it.

    You will be co-opted in to the "movement" whether you like it or not. They will tell you they support your right to carry, they just don't always seem to support how you choose to exercise that right. They will tell you that how you exercise your right, if not done in the proper way, is in some way hindering their choices on how to exercise their rights. I can't say I understand that logic. How I choose to exercise my right to free speech doesn't hinder another's right to free speech. How I choose to exercise my right to worship, doesn't hinder another's right to religion. But, apparently how I choose to exercise my right to bear arms and for what reason, strips this right from someone else. Go figure. I guess that also means I am part of the free speech and religious freedoms movements and I just didn't know it.
    AUDE VIDE TACE

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    Considering the alternative is dying I'll take my chances in court.

    If I carry after drinking and my life is not threatened then I will not be in court; assuming I have not violated any laws. If I don't carry after drinking and my life is threatened, I might die then I will not be in court. The only time I would be in court is if I am alive after having successfully defending my life. The same can happen in the home, does this mean one should lock all firearms away after having a drink, and simply hope it will be ok? This is a fallacy promoted by two groups those against alcohol consumption and those against carrying firearms. The reasons are simple and easy to discern so I'll leave that to the readers for now.
    You may be surprised at how many folks agree with the premise that drinking, even one drink, means that our right to self-defense is abrogated.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

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    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    It depends. If I am at home where I do most of my drinking, then I still carry or at least have it out next to me. If I visit someplace like a relatives, I know I will end up having a few, so I lock it up in the car. Anyone trying anything at a relative gathering will be for one hell of a surprise. I have four brothers, so out of the five of us, four of us are VN vets so don't take to much crap from anyone.

    If I attend a poker game, where I know I will most likely drink too much, I leave it at home. Sorry I won't drink to the point of being intoxicated and taking any chance with a firearm on me. Being drunk makes you do stupid stuff. In the last year I have left my handgun at home only once.
    Last edited by gunns; 02-01-2012 at 07:20 AM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I get what you are saying.

    BUT....'drinking and guns do not mix' is the mantra, a good one by the way, but too absolute. Yet we will leave it in the car if we are going to be out and about....drinking. Interesting, guns & booze = very bad, driving & booze = just bad.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    The WI forum is having a similar discussion: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1692475



    Here is my overriding points:

    1. I want to die an old man of natural causes never having pulled my firearm and pointing it at another human being.
    2. I do not give up my right to self defense because I choose to have an alcoholic beverage.
    3. Even if I have ZERO alcohol in my system, if I am forced to shoot someone, I will most likely end up in court.
    4. I'd rather be alive and in jail then dead because I can only carry a gun or a beer.

    Everyone needs to make their own decision as to what they will do. All I am saying is that it is not explicitly illegal to drink and carry. My buddy Mcx would yell and throw things at me but it is 'The totality of the circumstances' that will determine when/where I carry.

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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I get what you are saying.

    BUT....'drinking and guns do not mix' is the mantra, a good one by the way, but too absolute. Yet we will leave it in the car if we are going to be out and about....drinking. Interesting, guns & booze = very bad, driving & booze = just bad.
    +1

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    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I get what you are saying.

    BUT....'drinking and guns do not mix' is the mantra, a good one by the way, but too absolute. Yet we will leave it in the car if we are going to be out and about....drinking. Interesting, guns & booze = very bad, driving & booze = just bad.
    I probably should have stated. That if my gun ends up in the car locked up and I drink, by the time I get back in my car I haven't drank for hours and I am perfectly sober. Like I said in my post, I only ended up leaving my gun home once in the last year and even then I did not get drunk and was perfectly sober when I drove home.

    I haven't gotten stupid drunk in over 20 years. Damn I can't even remember when I was stupid drunk, guess I am showing my age? Or is it experience?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ...Interesting, guns & booze = very bad, driving & booze = just bad.
    And remember that the former is merely POSSESSION.
    The latter is OPERATING.

    So to clarify, no one (that I saw) is saying it is a good idea to drink while shooting. But you are not required (in my state) to be deprived of your ability to self-defense just because you are going to RESPONSIBLY have an alcoholic beverage.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-01-2012 at 09:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    ...
    If I attend a poker game, where I know I will most likely drink too much, I leave it at home. Sorry I won't drink to the point of being intoxicated and taking any chance with a firearm on me. Being drunk makes you do stupid stuff. In the last year I have left my handgun at home only once.
    That is logical fallacy, an example does not extend to the general. The only way to prove everyone is stupid after drinking is to show by exhaustion, or in other words show each and every person is stupid after drinking. Being drunk does not make me do stupid stuff. You might be stupid, but don't extend your stupidity to me. My inner ear balance might be impaired by large quantities of alcohol, but my judgement is not.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Founder's Club Member Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Impairment -

    http://alcoholism.about.com/od/dui/a/impaired.htm

    http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm

    There must be literally thousands of studies/reports/papers detailing the facts regarding alcohol impairment.

    Then there is the consideration of public perception.

    We all make choices and will have to live with the results.

    Should you have the right to defend yourself even with alcohol in your system? Absolutely.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    And remember that the former is merely POSSESSION.
    The latter is OPERATING.

    So to clarify, no one (that I saw) is saying it is a good idea to drink while shooting. But you are not required (in my state) to be deprived of your ability to self-defense just because you are going to RESPONSIBLY have an alcoholic beverage.
    I get that too.

    But, if mere possession transitions to operation.....

    Just as possession of a vehicle does not mean that I will operate the vehicle after I have a wee nip while out and about. Call a cab, get a ride from a friend....leave the firearm in my vehicle?
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I don't see an issue with drinking and carrying. I do, however see an issue with carrying while drunk. If you want to get drunk, stay at home or don't take your gun.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ^^^
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoOpenCarry View Post
    What if you do have to shoot someone while carrying and you have been drinking?...
    If you are under the influence and you are required to protect your life or someone else’s, the first consideration of the investigating officers and city or county prosecuting attorney will be; would you have shot the person if you were not under the influence.
    The first and only legal consideration will be whether or not the shooting was justified.

    Civil suits and publicity are a different matter.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Texas law only prohibits carrying while intoxicated.
    Last edited by Jack House; 02-01-2012 at 08:41 PM.

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    And similarly, your homeowner's insurance will not defend you; they will pay out to the person suing you and raise your premiums.


    They'll do that anyway, alcohol or not.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoOpenCarry View Post
    And similarly, your homeowner's insurance will not defend you; they will pay out to the person suing you and raise your premiums.
    Better to be safe than sorry!
    Tony@IdahoOpenCarry.org
    False. Most states have castle doctrine, so you are protected from being sued. I've of at least one insurance company in WI that will protect you if you are sued.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  25. #25
    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    That is logical fallacy, an example does not extend to the general. The only way to prove everyone is stupid after drinking is to show by exhaustion, or in other words show each and every person is stupid after drinking. Being drunk does not make me do stupid stuff. You might be stupid, but don't extend your stupidity to me. My inner ear balance might be impaired by large quantities of alcohol, but my judgement is not.
    I was talking about myself if you had read it correctly. If you think you can get drunk and OC, knock yourself out.

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