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Drinking and Carrying - something you should consider before you do!

IdahoOpenCarry

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
38
Location
Hidden Springs, Idaho
What if you do have to shoot someone while carrying and you have been drinking?
Two of the primary purposes in OC'ing are: protecting life; and, promoting OC, so we don't lose it to the anti-gun left (that is usually their first and easiest target and victim).
If you are under the influence when you are driving a car and someone runs into you, in all probability, you will take the fall criminally and civilly.
If you are under the influence and you are required to protect your life or someone else’s, the first consideration of the investigating officers and city or county prosecuting attorney will be; would you have shot the person if you were not under the influence. Whether or not alcohol did influence the shooting, you will still be defending yourself for being under the influence when discharging your weapon, either in criminal or civil court or both. Even one beer can be used against you.
I spent 40 years as a process server and private investigator serving people civil summons for traffic accidents that they were involved in; and they were being held responsible for the accident because they were under the influence. Right or wrong, your insurance company will not fight the lawsuit in court; it is easier to settle out of court and raise your premiums.
You WILL be sued and or prosecuted if you shoot someone while you are under the influence, whether you are right or wrong. It is better to not drink if you are carrying and have nothing impeding your decision to use your gun if it is necessary. And similarly, your homeowner's insurance will not defend you; they will pay out to the person suing you and raise your premiums.
Better to be safe than sorry!
Tony@IdahoOpenCarry.org
 
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Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
Considering the alternative is dying I'll take my chances in court.

If I carry after drinking and my life is not threatened then I will not be in court; assuming I have not violated any laws. If I don't carry after drinking and my life is threatened, I might die then I will not be in court. The only time I would be in court is if I am alive after having successfully defending my life. The same can happen in the home, does this mean one should lock all firearms away after having a drink, and simply hope it will be ok? This is a fallacy promoted by two groups those against alcohol consumption and those against carrying firearms. The reasons are simple and easy to discern so I'll leave that to the readers for now.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...Two of the primary purposes in OC'ing are: protecting life; and, promoting OC...

As an individual, I do not carry to promote it. I only carry for protection. Promotion is a completely separate and incidental issue for me.

I have no problem with those who carry with the purpose of also promoting it.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
As an individual, I do not carry to promote it. I only carry for protection. Promotion is a completely separate and incidental issue for me.

I have no problem with those who carry with the purpose of also promoting it.

Whether it is a primary purpose or not makes little difference - we are seen, heard, and judged by others. In that process we become good or bad examples of our community - many are frequently judged based on the image of one.

The very act of carrying for personal protection is at the very least a silent endorsement; therefore a promotion. As an instructor you directly promote to others the personal responsibility of carrying for self-defense in both your words and deeds/by example.

IMO - it is impossible to divorce oneself totally from that connection/relationship.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
What if you do have to shoot someone while carrying and you have been drinking?
Two of the primary purposes in OC'ing are: protecting life; and, promoting OC, so we don't lose it to the anti-gun left (that is usually their first and easiest target and victim).
If you are under the influence when you are driving a car and someone runs into you, in all probability, you will take the fall criminally and civilly.
If you are under the influence and you are required to protect your life or someone else’s, the first consideration of the investigating officers and city or county prosecuting attorney will be; would you have shot the person if you were not under the influence. Whether or not alcohol did influence the shooting, you will still be defending yourself for being under the influence when discharging your weapon, either in criminal or civil court or both. Even one beer can be used against you.
I spent 40 years as a process server and private investigator serving people civil summons for traffic accidents that they were involved in; and they were being held responsible for the accident because they were under the influence. Right or wrong, your insurance company will not fight the lawsuit in court; it is easier to settle out of court and raise your premiums.
You WILL be sued and or prosecuted if you shoot someone while you are under the influence, whether you are right or wrong. It is better to not drink if you are carrying and have nothing impeding your decision to use your gun if it is necessary. And similarly, your homeowner's insurance will not defend you; they will pay out to the person suing you and raise your premiums.
Better to be safe than sorry!
Tony@IdahoOpenCarry.org



Blanket statements like "You will be sued and or prosecuted" should be closely watched. I do not know what the laws are in your state, but I am very familiar with them in mine. In the the state of MO, you have the right to defend yourself, even if intoxicated.

Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 571
Weapons Offenses
Section 571.030

Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.

(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;


A civil case may result from any shooting, whether alcohol is involved or not.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Considering the alternative is dying I'll take my chances in court.

If I carry after drinking and my life is not threatened then I will not be in court; assuming I have not violated any laws. If I don't carry after drinking and my life is threatened, I might die then I will not be in court. The only time I would be in court is if I am alive after having successfully defending my life. The same can happen in the home, does this mean one should lock all firearms away after having a drink, and simply hope it will be ok? This is a fallacy promoted by two groups those against alcohol consumption and those against carrying firearms. The reasons are simple and easy to discern so I'll leave that to the readers for now.

We have a winner!

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
As an individual, I do not carry to promote it. I only carry for protection. Promotion is a completely separate and incidental issue for me.

I have no problem with those who carry with the purpose of also promoting it.


You will be co-opted in to the "movement" whether you like it or not. They will tell you they support your right to carry, they just don't always seem to support how you choose to exercise that right. They will tell you that how you exercise your right, if not done in the proper way, is in some way hindering their choices on how to exercise their rights. I can't say I understand that logic. How I choose to exercise my right to free speech doesn't hinder another's right to free speech. How I choose to exercise my right to worship, doesn't hinder another's right to religion. But, apparently how I choose to exercise my right to bear arms and for what reason, strips this right from someone else. Go figure. I guess that also means I am part of the free speech and religious freedoms movements and I just didn't know it.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Considering the alternative is dying I'll take my chances in court.

If I carry after drinking and my life is not threatened then I will not be in court; assuming I have not violated any laws. If I don't carry after drinking and my life is threatened, I might die then I will not be in court. The only time I would be in court is if I am alive after having successfully defending my life. The same can happen in the home, does this mean one should lock all firearms away after having a drink, and simply hope it will be ok? This is a fallacy promoted by two groups those against alcohol consumption and those against carrying firearms. The reasons are simple and easy to discern so I'll leave that to the readers for now.
You may be surprised at how many folks agree with the premise that drinking, even one drink, means that our right to self-defense is abrogated.
 

gunns

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
270
Location
Minnesota
It depends. If I am at home where I do most of my drinking, then I still carry or at least have it out next to me. If I visit someplace like a relatives, I know I will end up having a few, so I lock it up in the car. Anyone trying anything at a relative gathering will be for one hell of a surprise. I have four brothers, so out of the five of us, four of us are VN vets so don't take to much crap from anyone.

If I attend a poker game, where I know I will most likely drink too much, I leave it at home. Sorry I won't drink to the point of being intoxicated and taking any chance with a firearm on me. Being drunk makes you do stupid stuff. In the last year I have left my handgun at home only once.
 
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OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I get what you are saying.

BUT....'drinking and guns do not mix' is the mantra, a good one by the way, but too absolute. Yet we will leave it in the car if we are going to be out and about....drinking. Interesting, guns & booze = very bad, driving & booze = just bad.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
The WI forum is having a similar discussion: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...in-a-Class-B&p=1692475&viewfull=1#post1692475



Here is my overriding points:

1. I want to die an old man of natural causes never having pulled my firearm and pointing it at another human being.
2. I do not give up my right to self defense because I choose to have an alcoholic beverage.
3. Even if I have ZERO alcohol in my system, if I am forced to shoot someone, I will most likely end up in court.
4. I'd rather be alive and in jail then dead because I can only carry a gun or a beer.

Everyone needs to make their own decision as to what they will do. All I am saying is that it is not explicitly illegal to drink and carry. My buddy Mcx would yell and throw things at me but it is 'The totality of the circumstances' that will determine when/where I carry.
 

gunns

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
270
Location
Minnesota
I get what you are saying.

BUT....'drinking and guns do not mix' is the mantra, a good one by the way, but too absolute. Yet we will leave it in the car if we are going to be out and about....drinking. Interesting, guns & booze = very bad, driving & booze = just bad.

I probably should have stated. That if my gun ends up in the car locked up and I drink, by the time I get back in my car I haven't drank for hours and I am perfectly sober. Like I said in my post, I only ended up leaving my gun home once in the last year and even then I did not get drunk and was perfectly sober when I drove home.

I haven't gotten stupid drunk in over 20 years. Damn I can't even remember when I was stupid drunk, guess I am showing my age? Or is it experience?
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...Interesting, guns & booze = very bad, driving & booze = just bad.

And remember that the former is merely POSSESSION.
The latter is OPERATING.

So to clarify, no one (that I saw) is saying it is a good idea to drink while shooting. But you are not required (in my state) to be deprived of your ability to self-defense just because you are going to RESPONSIBLY have an alcoholic beverage.
 
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Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
...
If I attend a poker game, where I know I will most likely drink too much, I leave it at home. Sorry I won't drink to the point of being intoxicated and taking any chance with a firearm on me. Being drunk makes you do stupid stuff. In the last year I have left my handgun at home only once.

That is logical fallacy, an example does not extend to the general. The only way to prove everyone is stupid after drinking is to show by exhaustion, or in other words show each and every person is stupid after drinking. Being drunk does not make me do stupid stuff. You might be stupid, but don't extend your stupidity to me. My inner ear balance might be impaired by large quantities of alcohol, but my judgement is not.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
And remember that the former is merely POSSESSION.
The latter is OPERATING.

So to clarify, no one (that I saw) is saying it is a good idea to drink while shooting. But you are not required (in my state) to be deprived of your ability to self-defense just because you are going to RESPONSIBLY have an alcoholic beverage.
I get that too.

But, if mere possession transitions to operation.....

Just as possession of a vehicle does not mean that I will operate the vehicle after I have a wee nip while out and about. Call a cab, get a ride from a friend....leave the firearm in my vehicle?
 

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
I don't see an issue with drinking and carrying. I do, however see an issue with carrying while drunk. If you want to get drunk, stay at home or don't take your gun.
 
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