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Thread: FBI cuts down Mass. mom's door in wrong-home raid

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    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    FBI cuts down Mass. mom's door in wrong-home raid

    FBI cuts down Mass. mom's door in wrong-home raid

    [quote]It turns out agents were after the other tenant on the floor of the multiunit building who is suspected of dealing drugs.[quote]

    http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-cuts-down-...143434056.html

    What happens if you are in your kitchen minding your own business, OC'ing your gun as some do in their own home, when a chainsaw starts cutting down your door?

    http://www.krqe.com/dpps/news/strang...12-jgr_4060419
    Last edited by John Canuck; 02-01-2012 at 12:20 PM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    What was that line in Die hard:

    Dwayne T. Robinson: We're gonna need some more FBI guys, I guess.
    Let's not get started on this topic again.

    She just hit the law suit lottery, that is if she wants to cash in her winning ticket.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I wonder if the FBI guys got their man after the ruckus abated?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    How hard is it to read an address?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Canuck View Post

    What happens if you are in your kitchen minding your own business, OC'ing your gun as some do in their own home, when a chainsaw starts cutting down your door?
    As a stay at home, OCing mom...well, let's just say in that situation, mother bears will be comparing themselves to me for the next several decades.

    And +2 on that whole reading the address thing. Is it REALLY that hard?

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Thats the thing, if someone sends a chainsaw through my door I will send some 124grs back. Of course I probably would have gotten gunned down in my own home, but there was no way of knowing who that was on the other side of the door. But you could easily guess that it wasn't your neighbor asking for sugar, or girl scouts.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=John Canuck;1693734]FBI cuts down Mass. mom's door in wrong-home raid

    [quote]It turns out agents were after the other tenant on the floor of the multiunit building who is suspected of dealing drugs.

    http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-cuts-down-...143434056.html

    What happens if you are in your kitchen minding your own business, OC'ing your gun as some do in their own home, when a chainsaw starts cutting down your door?

    http://www.krqe.com/dpps/news/strang...12-jgr_4060419
    I would probably end up dead and we're just going to leave it at that.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Jack House;1693816][QUOTE=John Canuck;1693734]FBI cuts down Mass. mom's door in wrong-home raid

    It turns out agents were after the other tenant on the floor of the multiunit building who is suspected of dealing drugs.
    I would probably end up dead and we're just going to leave it at that.
    I'm in total agreement with you on the "I probably would end up dead" part.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    How about a compromise?

    Visualize this sign on all of your exterior doors:

    "LE....CHECK THE ADDRESS ON THE DANGED WARRANT BEFORE NO_KNOCKING....THANKS, ARMED AND READY OCCUPANTS."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Canuck View Post
    What happens if you are in your kitchen minding your own business, OC'ing your gun as some do in their own home, when a chainsaw starts cutting down your door?
    http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/sho...ent?oid=948430 would happen.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston would happen.

    http://www.westword.com/2000-02-24/news/unlawful-entry/ would happen.

    Tipping the iceberg here. There are many more stories of wrong addresses, no announcing, etc.

    The one story I've read that is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may...l/me-corrupt20

    Really, really, really infuriates me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOneChick View Post
    The one story I've read that is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may...l/me-corrupt20
    Ferguson had five felony arrests for burglary- and theft-related offenses before being hired by the Los Angeles Police Department in 1996.
    How the hell...

    Well, at least that somewhat explains the corruption in the police force...

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    I don't think they especially care if they have the right place, figuring they'll get the door to the abode of the 'suspected' drug user eventually.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Good thing this is an isolated incident. This kind of thing is extremely rare.
    http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The two later became friends, and Palomares recruited him to join a gang of friends, family and police associates he was assembling to rip off drug dealers. The crew committed about 40 robberies, attempted robberies and burglaries between 1999 and 2001, netting about $1 million in drugs and cash.

    Ferguson and Palomares would wear their LAPD uniforms and badges and brandish weapons. They even stole police cars from the academy to make them seem more legitimate while conducting their bogus raids.
    I guess we are supposed to accept that not a single officer on the force ,outside of the 'crew', had any idea what was going on.

    Academy cop car dude: Yo!....where the heck are the cop cars?
    LAPD dude: Nah....don't worry about it, they'll show up eventually.
    Academy cop car dude: Yeah....I guess you're right, no big deal actually.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Excellent map, END_THE_FED. Thank you for sharing that.

    I lived at an address where I was worried the previous owners' illegal activities would come back and bite me in the butt. I was concerned that there would be a raid from police or criminals looking for the previous owners. A raid did take place across the street from me and they were, in fact, looking for the previous owners. It's too bad the previous owners had moved out 5 years before. At least they had the right address, just not the right decade.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    This is the FBI, folks... the same FBI that took almost two years to find well-known Patty Hearst with photographs of her, and knowledge of the group into which she had been conscripted/recruited! As with most government agencies, they are not known for their efficiency or precision of action. Pax...
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    SNIP But you could easily guess that it wasn't your neighbor asking for sugar, or girl scouts.
    I don't know about that, those girl scouts can get pretty aggressive when they're trying to sell cookies...
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOneChick View Post
    Excellent map, END_THE_FED. Thank you for sharing that.

    I lived at an address where I was worried the previous owners' illegal activities would come back and bite me in the butt. I was concerned that there would be a raid from police or criminals looking for the previous owners. A raid did take place across the street from me and they were, in fact, looking for the previous owners. It's too bad the previous owners had moved out 5 years before. At least they had the right address, just not the right decade.
    I have that worry every day. The house I bought was a rental for over 10 years before I bought it. They did come by once looking for a previous resident.

    Another incident

    There is another person in this town with the same name as me. Even same middle initial. Several times I have had a leo in the past few years show up looking for him. Last time it was a deputy sheriff with a warrant who asked if I was so and so and I said yes that is my name. She proceeded to read to warrant to me as she got out her handcuffs and the stopped mid sentence and said. Oh wait. your not black! I said uh no. She then said sorry, laughed and left. The sheriff dept got a nice call from me after that incident. Fortunately it has been three years since it has happened. I didn't carry back then. But I always worry. Especially since I open carry now. Apparently this guy has a record and if I get mistaken for him and they see me with a weapon things could get ugly. And I have this thing about getting shot. It hurts. I may change my name to Billy Joe Bob. I am sure there is no one in Kentucky with a name like that.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    There are about 6 people in Texas with my exact name.

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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYKevin View Post
    I have that worry every day. The house I bought was a rental for over 10 years before I bought it. They did come by once looking for a previous resident.

    Another incident

    There is another person in this town with the same name as me. Even same middle initial. Several times I have had a leo in the past few years show up looking for him. Last time it was a deputy sheriff with a warrant who asked if I was so and so and I said yes that is my name. She proceeded to read to warrant to me as she got out her handcuffs and the stopped mid sentence and said. Oh wait. your not black! I said uh no. She then said sorry, laughed and left. The sheriff dept got a nice call from me after that incident. Fortunately it has been three years since it has happened. I didn't carry back then. But I always worry. Especially since I open carry now. Apparently this guy has a record and if I get mistaken for him and they see me with a weapon things could get ugly. And I have this thing about getting shot. It hurts. I may change my name to Billy Joe Bob. I am sure there is no one in Kentucky with a name like that.
    That is nuts. I can extremely empathize with how you feel about OCing and having that issue. I first started carrying and got my permit while at the previous address. I would stress thinking of the possibility of a raid, especially after I read about the cops doing illegal raids. How am I suppose to know who the "good guys" are? Makes me sick, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    There are about 6 people in Texas with my exact name.
    Maybe you can change your name to Billy Joe Bob and move next door to KYKevin.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    That might cause some issues when my girlfriend asks for KY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    There are about 6 people in Texas with my exact name.
    The closest people to having the same name as me in the US/world are my dad and my son. And we all have different middle names/initials so I don't have to worry about them looking for someone else unless they're either after my dad or 10mo son and they forget to check the middle name/initial.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    This is the FBI, folks... the same FBI that took almost two years to find well-known Patty Hearst with photographs of her, and knowledge of the group into which she had been conscripted/recruited! As with most government agencies, they are not known for their efficiency or precision of action. Pax...
    But they are experts at murdering innocent women and children by burning them alive at Waco or shooting them in the back at Ruby Ridge. The fbi does have it's notable heroes though. j edgar prancing around in a dress and of course their poster boy, bobby hanssen. Murder, treason, theft of handguns, computers and other equipment, and stupidity. Great legacy. America's "police" force. Sieg heil!
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Thats the thing, if someone sends a chainsaw through my door I will send some 124grs back. Of course I probably would have gotten gunned down in my own home, but there was no way of knowing who that was on the other side of the door. But you could easily guess that it wasn't your neighbor asking for sugar, or girl scouts.
    Whaddya mean? All the girl scouts on my block use chainsaws...

    I'd call 911, both to get a confirmation as well to make damned sure what goes does is officially recorded.

    Similar situation happened in my apartment complex back in July, '09, with local S.W.A.T. knocking in a door one floor below then using a flash-bang. Around 9am. I thought someone had knocked in a door and the occupant responded with a shotgun. I had 911 on the line before the flash-bang went off, and within 20 seconds they told me it was a S.W.A.T. raid and to remain inside.

    That would not have been enough time to receive verification before they entered my own home, however!

    I suppose if I see a chain saw tip sticking through my door I could always take the crowbar I keep next to the door and jab the chisel into the chainsaw. Might even break the cutting chain. It's either than or through a tangle mess of fine diameter steel cable at it. Wouldn't that be interesting, their chainsaw becoming fouled enough they can't even yank it back through the door?

    Hell, they might even have to knock and announce they're police with a warrant, LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.

    All judges who allow no-knock warrants need to be on the receiving end of one of those puppies, just to see what it feels like.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    All judges who allow no-knock warrants need to be on the receiving end of one of those puppies, just to see what it feels like.
    +1

    And, all the officers/SWAT that enforce them.

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