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Thread: SB 863 -- A slap in the face to lawful gun owners

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    SB 863 -- A slap in the face to lawful gun owners

    UPDATE: Let's hold off on our calls until Monday (2/6) at 8 AM. The people we are trying to reach are all out of the office on Friday (I know -- I visited their office earlier today). Let's light up the phones at 8 AM on Monday (Feb. 6) again!

    SB 863 is not the way to eliminate Concealed Gun Free Zones
    Dear Friend of Michigan Open Carry, Inc.:

    This morning it came to our attention that SB 863 will be voted on in the Senate Judiciary Committee next week. SB 863 (Introduced December of 2011) is a Michigan Legislative Bill that would exempt employees of Licensed Private Investigators who have a Concealed Pistol License (CPL) from “Concealed Gun Free Zones”.

    On the surface, this may seem like a good bill. However, there is another bill (SB 58 – Introduced January 2011) that is sitting in front of the same legislative committee. SB 58 eliminates all “Concealed Gun Free Zones” for every person that has a valid CPL. It appears the committee chair has no intentions on acting on SB 58 despite being eager to create another “special exempt class” by voting on SB 863. Because SB 58 increases freedom for every person with a CPL, rather than an elite few, Michigan Open Carry, Inc. is opposing SB 863 and asking the committee chair to instead vote on SB 58.

    Here's where you come in.

    During business hours (8 AM-5 PM), if possible, we'd like you to place a phone call to the three members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and pass on a message to them: Either every CPL holder gets more freedom or nobody does.

    Committee Members:

    Sen. Rick Jones (Chairman) (Grand Ledge)
    (517) 373-3447

    Sen. Tonya Schuitmaker (Kalamazoo Co. plus Paw Paw Twp and Antwerp Twp)
    (517) 373-0793

    Sen. Tory Rocca (Clinton Twp., Roseville, Sterling Heights, Utica)
    (517) 373-7315


    Tell them you would like them to vote against SB 863 and instead insist that SB 58 be brought to vote and passed.


    If you're a bit lost for words you can say this:

    (Person Answers the phone)

    You: Hi, I'd like to speak to the staffer who handles Judiciary Committee Matters (Wait to be transferred, ask to leave a Voice Mail if they are not available).

    (After you are transferred)

    You: I am calling at the request of Michigan Open Carry. I am asking the Senator to not support SB863, which will be heard in the Judiciary Committee next week. Enough is enough, no more laws that give special privileges to certain classes of citizens.

    One of the founding principles of this great nation was that all people are equal and that the idea of special classes is contrary to liberty and freedom.

    What the Senate should be concentrating on is SB58 which eliminates all gun free zones for all CPL holders. This bill has languished in committee since January 25th, 2011. It is time to stand up and fight for our right to bear arms recognized by both the Federal and State constitutions. Senate Bill 58 is legislation that all Michigan gun rights organizations can support.

    Either we are all free or we are not. No more special privileges for certain classes of people.




    If you cannot call all three committee members, it is crucial you at least call Senator Rick Jone's office as he is the committee chair.
    Last edited by TheQ; 02-03-2012 at 03:52 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    I agree with opposing this. They need to be eliminated for everyone, not just a select few.

  3. #3
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    Agreed.

  4. #4
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    Me too, I certainly support the MOC decision in this. They dont need to spoon feed us some more of their baby food legislation, and then claim that they did soooo much for furthering the rights of gun owners.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 02-01-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Original post updated with action plan. Please share with your friends (email them the link to this thread or on Facebook

    Make your calls during the business day tomorrow!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  6. #6
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Sent them all an email thanks for the heads up!

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quarter horseman View Post
    Sent them all an email thanks for the heads up!
    Beyond emailing your reps, we need you to CALL the Senators listed in this note. Please helps us...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I don't understand. We can talk about pot and CPls for 300+ posts -- but this thread (which affects all our rights) gets very little attention.

    ...how -- frustrating.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    it has over 200 views and it's only been up since 3pm yesterday

    look down the list, there are threads that have been up for days that have less views
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 02-02-2012 at 09:37 AM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I don't understand. We can talk about pot and CPls for 300+ posts -- but this thread (which affects all our rights) gets very little attention.

    ...how -- frustrating.
    What more would you like said, besides I will call shortly?
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  11. #11
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    I emailed all 3. I know, calling is better. I also sent the info to a few other people who I'm sure will also at least email.

    -Got an email back from the Rick Jones address within a couple minutes. From Sandra M. McCormick, Constituent Services Director. 1 sentence saying the bill fixes an oversight. Considering my email was a couple paragraphs of info and my reasoning I see this as "I don't care what you have to say". Seems like even a prepared response would give more then 1 sentence. Did my opinion go in the trash?
    Last edited by qqq1; 02-02-2012 at 11:25 AM.

  12. #12
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    Probably.

    Like I have said, the current legislature is a waste of time. My transportation thread reflected that truth quite well.

  13. #13
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    I got 3 secretaries, 2 of whom asked what city I was in, one asked if I had contacted my senator about it, and all 3 said they would forward my opinions.

  14. #14
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Called Sen. Jones' office... spoke with chief of staff Jason...
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

  15. #15
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    Sent the legislature this email

    I have been made aware of another useless piece of legislation, SB 863, which would exempt the employees of private investigators from the pistol free zones with a CPL. The reason that I am opposed to this, is because it creates yet another group of privileged individuals, while ignoring the lost rights of everyone else. As the law is now, these people can already simply carry open in these areas.

    Instead of wasting another opportunity here, why not pass SB 58, which would eliminate the gun free zones for all CPL holders? This is one of the main requests of gun owners that brought us to the ballots and many of you to your offices.

  16. #16
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Jason is the best contact for Senator Jones Office.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  17. #17
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qqq1 View Post
    I emailed all 3. I know, calling is better. I also sent the info to a few other people who I'm sure will also at least email.

    -Got an email back from the Rick Jones address within a couple minutes. From Sandra M. McCormick, Constituent Services Director. 1 sentence saying the bill fixes an oversight. Considering my email was a couple paragraphs of info and my reasoning I see this as "I don't care what you have to say". Seems like even a prepared response would give more then 1 sentence. Did my opinion go in the trash?
    This was my responce from Sandra M. McCormick I quote
    "Thank you for contacting the office of Senator Rick Jones about SB 863. Senator Hildenbrand introduced this legislation to fix an oversight on private investigation firms wherein the investigator can carry but their employees cannot. Thank you again for your email." end quote

  18. #18
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Regarding SB 863 and SB 58:
    We are getting their attention -- good work. One Senator's office has initiated contact with the me (President of MOC) in regards to our position and your calls. Please keep up the good work.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Let's hold off on our calls until Monday (2/6) at 8 AM. The people we are trying to reach are all out of the office on Friday (I know -- I visited their office earlier today). Let's light up the phones at 8 AM on Monday (Feb. 6) again!
    Last edited by TheQ; 02-03-2012 at 03:52 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Let's hold off on our calls until Monday (2/6) at 8 AM. The people we are trying to reach are all out of the office on Friday (I know -- I visited their office earlier today). Let's light up the phones at 8 AM on Monday (Feb. 6) again!
    I called all three. I was asked if I called my senator. I explained that unless my senator recently was placed on Judiciary I see no point in contacting my senator unless the bill goes to the floor.

    I made it clear that Jones has been sitting on SB58 and that his actions do not promote the 2nd amendment.

    I wonder when they will just come clean and offer a bill to exempt legislators and former legislators from 28.425o

    I asked (I forget which staffer) if a secretary of a PI firm's life is more important that my wife's life (My wife has a shattered knee and can never run again.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    This legislation continue's Michigan's violation of the Equal Protection Clause. Basically, they are once again, allowing people who have no law-enforcement purpose, to be exempt from the Section 28.425o restrictions on concealed carry. The Ninth District Appeals Court found that a California law exempting retired police officers from the CA assault (sic) weapon ban violated the Equal Protection Clause as these people are civilians, not police officers. see SILVEIRA v. LOCKYER (2002)

    Likewise, Michigan's restrictions on concealed carry exempt a number of people who are not law-enforcement officers: a police or sheriff's department auxiliary officer or reserve officer, a member of a sheriff's posse; and a State court judge or State court retired judge; etc. These exceptions elevate other general citizens without law-enforcement duties to a privilege not given any other CPL holder.

    I did notice, too, that the analysis of the bill has an error; there is no requirement that these exempted people be "on duty", although the exemption for the employee of a Licensed Private Investigator/ Detective be "on duty". Read the actual law http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...1-SIB-0863.htm and compare it to the bill's analysis http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...SFA-0863-S.htm.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Called all three again today.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    spoke to ryan at senator jones' office, he said he would pass along the message
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  24. #24
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I had the privilege of a five or 10 minute conversation with Ryan and Sen. Rick Jones (in his office) earlier today around 2 o'clock.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  25. #25
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Earlier today, I was in the Judiciary Committee Meeting where it was announced SB 863 will not be heard or voted on today. I found out this news myself about 45 minutes before the meeting while visiting one of the committee member's office.

    Good work team!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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