• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

FBI Raid wrong house W/ a CHAINSAW.

PrayingForWar

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
1,701
Location
The Real World.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/31/fbi-uses-chainsaw-in-raid-on-wrong-fitchburg-apartment/

“I just happened to glance over and saw this huge chainsaw ripping down the side of my door,” she explains. “And I was freaking out. I didn’t know what was going on.”

I know that even if I heard people yelling "police!!" before cutting down my door w/ a ^%$# CHAINSAW I'd be putting rounds downrange. A person who has no reason too expect too be raided in the first place should consider the highly unusual method to be that of home invaders posing as police.

I can't find words to voice my disgust over this incident, but I hope this lady gets rich from it.
 

Dutch Uncle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,715
Location
Virginia, USA
I really fear that some day, some LEO's will be caught flat-footed (sorry, I couldn't help it!), by some perfectly decent, law-abiding citizens who happen to have an "arsenal" of about a half dozen guns, many of which can throw out some serious, lethal stuff. If the fellow and his wife happen to have excellent APPARENT reasons to use their weapons because "seconds count", and they decide to use those seconds by sending loads of heavy, deadly stuff downrange, the courts may find them completely blameless and the LEO's entirely at fault. I know...far-fetched... but not completely from fantasy land. The looney left would predictably call for (you guessed it) stricter gun control, but most reasonable Americans, including many in law enforcement would want to see more Fourth Amendment restrictions on how LEOs can rip into someone's private dwelling. When you think about it, my scenario is not so terribly unrealistic, but one I hope will never be seen.
 

rscottie

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
608
Location
Ashland, Kentucky, USA
Could you even hear them yell FBI?

Could you even hear them yell FBI over the chainsaw?

Not only do we need to work on seriously curtailing No Knock Warrants, now we must also demand "No Chainsaw Warrants"?

I hope she gets a good lawyer and goes after them.
 

jayspapa

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
313
Location
South end of the state, Illinois, USA
If that were to happen to me , even if I did hear them yell FBI , I would never suspect them to be using a chain saw. I have never heard of them using anything but pry bars or door breaching loads in a shotgun. Thus I wouldn't believe it was any lawful entity and I would protect myself and mine.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
Notice what a lot of these egregious "no knock" stories have in common?

The worst ones (like this one) are in states where the law makes it nearly impossible for law-abiding citizens to carry (or even own) self-defense firearms.

Maryland, Massachusetts. California. Illinois. New York. See a pattern forming here?

Why don't these no-knock fiascoes happen much in states like VA, NC, or PA (OK, they DO happen a lot in Philly, but that's not really part of PA)?

Maybe it's because police in states that have a lot of lawfully-armed citizens KNOW that if they try this sort of crap, they'd be bet with .45 caliber mag dumps of 230 grain hollowpoints or a half-a dozen rounds of 00-buck from citizens who thought they were defending themselves from home-invasion thugs. Maybe it's because police in those states actually respect the civil rights and personal property of their citizens, and so they actually do their homework before going on raids?

Maybe it's because states that severely restrict lawful ownership and carry view their citizens not so much as fellow human beings, but as chattel.

I hope this woman gets VERY rich from this incident...
 

Metalhead47

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,800
Location
South Whidbey, Washington, USA
I really fear that some day, some LEO's will be caught flat-footed (sorry, I couldn't help it!), by some perfectly decent, law-abiding citizens who happen to have an "arsenal" of about a half dozen guns, many of which can throw out some serious, lethal stuff. If the fellow and his wife happen to have excellent APPARENT reasons to use their weapons because "seconds count", and they decide to use those seconds by sending loads of heavy, deadly stuff downrange, the courts may find them completely blameless and the LEO's entirely at fault. I know...far-fetched... but not completely from fantasy land. The looney left would predictably call for (you guessed it) stricter gun control, but most reasonable Americans, including many in law enforcement would want to see more Fourth Amendment restrictions on how LEOs can rip into someone's private dwelling. When you think about it, my scenario is not so terribly unrealistic, but one I hope will never be seen.

Completely unrealistic. Said fictional couple would be quite dead before the wrongful invasion was over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Sig229

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
926
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
Notice what a lot of these egregious "no knock" stories have in common?

The worst ones (like this one) are in states where the law makes it nearly impossible for law-abiding citizens to carry (or even own) self-defense firearms.

Maryland, Massachusetts. California. Illinois. New York. See a pattern forming here?

Why don't these no-knock fiascoes happen much in states like VA, NC, or PA (OK, they DO happen a lot in Philly, but that's not really part of PA)?

Maybe it's because police in states that have a lot of lawfully-armed citizens KNOW that if they try this sort of crap, they'd be bet with .45 caliber mag dumps of 230 grain hollowpoints or a half-a dozen rounds of 00-buck from citizens who thought they were defending themselves from home-invasion thugs. Maybe it's because police in those states actually respect the civil rights and personal property of their citizens, and so they actually do their homework before going on raids?

Maybe it's because states that severely restrict lawful ownership and carry view their citizens not so much as fellow human beings, but as chattel.

I hope this woman gets VERY rich from this incident...



Well said!
When only the police and other government officials are allowed to walk around armed, they get a holier than thou attitude and truly believe that the citizens life is worth less than theirs.
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
If I heard/saw a chainsaw working on taking out my door I would either be putting a few rounds with my shotgun through the door or I would be grabbing my rifle with green-tipped 5.56 ammo to put through the door since I know those rounds are more likely to properly get through the door compared to my handgun. And I would NOT expect my government to be "serving" a warrant via a chainsaw.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Dutch Uncle said:
I really fear that some day, some LEO's will be caught flat-footed (sorry, I couldn't help it!), by some perfectly decent, law-abiding citizens who happen to have an "arsenal" of about a half dozen guns, many of which can throw out some serious, lethal stuff. If the fellow and his wife happen to have excellent APPARENT reasons to use their weapons because "seconds count", and they decide to use those seconds by sending loads of heavy, deadly stuff downrange, the courts may find them completely blameless and the LEO's entirely at fault. I know...far-fetched... but not completely from fantasy land. The looney left would predictably call for (you guessed it) stricter gun control, but most reasonable Americans, including many in law enforcement would want to see more Fourth Amendment restrictions on how LEOs can rip into someone's private dwelling. When you think about it, my scenario is not so terribly unrealistic, but one I hope will never be seen.

Completely unrealistic. Said fictional couple would be quite dead before the wrongful invasion was over.

Maybe so, maybe no. History shows that if enough overwhelming firepower is directed at the invading enemy, they may be forced to withdraw, regroup, and begin a siege. A la Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Not unrealistic at all, especially when you consider the total number of government employees conducting the average unconstitutional, illegal no-knock search is likely to be considerably less than the initial force at either of the aforementioned engagements.
 
Last edited:

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
Could you even hear them yell FBI over the chainsaw?

Not only do we need to work on seriously curtailing No Knock Warrants, now we must also demand "No Chainsaw Warrants"?

I hope she gets a good lawyer and goes after them.
Even if you heard them say FBI, would you actually believe that the FBI was taking a chainsaw to your door? I wouldn't.
 

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
What Judge in their Right Mind would approve of using a Chainsaw to gain access to a residence to execute a Warrant?

What Police Chief/Police Department in their Right Mind would approve of using a Chainsaw to gain access to a residence to execute a Warrant?

HEADS NEED TO ROLL!
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
What Judge in their Right Mind would approve of using a Chainsaw to gain access to a residence to execute a Warrant?

What Police Chief/Police Department in their Right Mind would approve of using a Chainsaw to gain access to a residence to execute a Warrant?

HEADS NEED TO ROLL!

I love how you capitalized "Right Mind." That answers your question. It has become a proper noun, indicating it is a title for whatever they deem it to be; it is no longer a necessarily accurate description as if a mere descriptive term.

Sort of like "LEO."
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Notice what a lot of these egregious "no knock" stories have in common?

The worst ones (like this one) are in states where the law makes it nearly impossible for law-abiding citizens to carry (or even own) self-defense firearms.

Maryland, Massachusetts. California. Illinois. New York. See a pattern forming here?

California law really doesn't prevent homeowners from being deadly within their homes. Californians may keep any number of rifles, handguns, and shotguns ready within their home or business.

Why don't these no-knock fiascoes happen much in states like VA, NC, or PA (OK, they DO happen a lot in Philly, but that's not really part of PA)?

The name Ryan Frederick ring a bell?
 
Last edited:

Metalhead47

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,800
Location
South Whidbey, Washington, USA
While your in your house sleeping, a chainsaw cuts through your door. You arm yourself ready to fire because you don't know whats going on.

Maybe he is trying to save you? After all your were just sleeping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHxeWwQGJkM

In that case I think the smoke alarms going off, flashing lights outside, acrid smell of smoke, and that unpleasant burning sensation where your hair used to be might be a tip-off :p
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
California law really doesn't prevent homeowners from being deadly within their homes. Californians may keep any number of rifles, handguns, and shotguns ready within their home or business.


I was referring to carry law in CA, specifically. However, they DO have some REALLY stupid and restrictive laws prohibiting certain rifles and handguns, because they look mean...



The name Ryan Frederick ring a bell?


Ryan Frederick is a textbook case for what is wrong with LEA policies today. The police essentially hired two career criminals to go around breaking in to people's property looking for things they could charge the break-in victims for. The police allowed these robbers to take whatever hey wanted, and essentially gave them a license to steal. One of the police-backed robbers had a long-time grudge with Mr. Frederick. The police had even encouraged these thugs to break into Frederick's home a few days before the incident that put him in prison.

The more you learn about this story, the more unbelievably criminal the Chesapeake PD looks.

Ryan Frederick isn't in prison because he shot a good cop. Good cops would not have hired criminals to break into his house, pressured them to fabricate testimony to support a warrant, and then broken into his house while he was sleeping when they KNEW he wasn't actually doing what they accused him of.

Chesapeake Detective Jarrod Shivers will be judged--by a MUCH "higher court".

Hopefully Captain James Dunlap, Detective Kylie Roberts, the Prosecutors and Circuit Court Judge Marjorie A.T. Arrington have trouble sleeping at night, knowing they are responsible for the death of a fellow officer, and that they have sent an innocent man to prison, but somehow I doubt it...
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Ryan Frederick is a textbook case for what is wrong with LEA policies today. The police essentially hired two career criminals to go around breaking in to people's property looking for things they could charge the break-in victims for. The police allowed these robbers to take whatever hey wanted, and essentially gave them a license to steal. One of the police-backed robbers had a long-time grudge with Mr. Frederick. The police had even encouraged these thugs to break into Frederick's home a few days before the incident that put him in prison.

The more you learn about this story, the more unbelievably criminal the Chesapeake PD looks.

Ryan Frederick isn't in prison because he shot a good cop. Good cops would not have hired criminals to break into his house, pressured them to fabricate testimony to support a warrant, and then broken into his house while he was sleeping when they KNEW he wasn't actually doing what they accused him of.

Chesapeake Detective Jarrod Shivers will be judged--by a MUCH "higher court".

Hopefully Captain James Dunlap, Detective Kylie Roberts, the Prosecutors and Circuit Court Judge Marjorie A.T. Arrington have trouble sleeping at night, knowing they are responsible for the death of a fellow officer, and that they have sent an innocent man to prison, but somehow I doubt it...

+100
 
Top