OT Washington state militia

Double tap

Orphan said:

Metalhead/saywhat we were talking about fighting right, not logistics, not cooking, not sleeping, not being a gun smith.

Giant leap there Saywhat from me saying he is not much of a threat in a fight to you inferring I said he would not be of any value to the group.

Both of you read a lot more into my simple statement than was said. I will stand by my statement someone that big is not much of a threat in a fight.

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Think what you might, unless you know the guy you cant assert what he is and is not capable of. I shoot with a guy who's about the same build and when you put guns in his hands, he hits what he aims at and he's fast. I'd rather have a fat dude who can handle the steel by my side then some athletic guy who can hit the broad side of a barn. Never underestimate a threat, that's the fastest way to lose a "fight".

PS - my comment wasn't particularly directed at you.

SayWhat said:

Think what you might, unless you know the guy you cant assert what he is and is not capable of. I shoot with a guy who's about the same build and when you put guns in his hands, he hits what he aims at and he's fast. I'd rather have a fat dude who can handle the steel by my side then some athletic guy who can hit the broad side of a barn. Never underestimate a threat, that's the fastest way to lose a "fight".

PS - my comment wasn't particularly directed at you.

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This.

My comment wasn't solely directed at you, Orphan. This isn't the first time I've a "why's that fat guy need a gun? He'll just die of a stoke first" type of comment around here.

SayWhat's right. For all you (or anyone else knows) the guy in the photo can shoot a flea off a dog's back at half a mile. Whether his physical condition is a result of a disability for lack of will power is between him & his Creator only, neither you nor anyone else has right to judge, especially knowing absolutely zero about his skills.

Would you (not you specific Orphan) be so quick to cast dispersion if the guy in the photo was a dwarf? Or in a wheelchair?

kparker said:

"Who would have thought that Chris Gregoire would allow such a thing?"

Anyone who realizes that in Washington state the governor is not a dictator? :-/

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Shhhh. Don't tell her.

sirpuma said:

Here's a question, in the off chance that the government really goes south and the local LEO follows orders and there is rounding people up based on beliefs or views or whatever, will you still run out and join up with the local cops? Some groups organize themselves outside of the local LEO but still support their neighborhood or community. Just because they aren't sanctioned by the Governor doesn't mean they're criminal or looking to get themselves thrown in jail. And how evil is the group, really, if the Feds send in agent provocateurs to rile them up and get them arrested as they did with Hutery (sp?)? Who really is the evil group then?

And they are Militia in the sense that our Founders intended as they considered EVERY male between certain ages who were physically able a member of the militia, not just those organized and trained by the government.

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Freedom First is not just some silly made up avatar name, it's how I view the events of the day. I look at what will bring my children the most Freedom in the long run.

So, Did I say I would run out and join up with LEO if he was gathering up Amercians and stuffing them in camps? No. Ever read any of my posts?... I'm pretty consistant. I support the Oathkeepers and I consider myself a 3%er. Extra-Constitutional law is no law. So, section 1031 being clearly unconstitutional is no law. A group of LEOs attempting to kidnap me or my family using the police power of the state are acting with criminal intent.

And speaking of criminal, I never did say that these folks in the local militias are criminals, what I said was, "...they generally operate outside of the statute law..." which places them in a vulnerable position when it comes to the "law" as defined by those in power. Just like OC is misunderstood, membership in an "unorganized militia" carries with it a certain image. That image of being one opposed to overreaching government power and having a willingness to "fight" that power. Government and LE (local, state or federal) doesn't like that. It's an affront to their belief that they are doing the good work and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Does that mean the militia guys are wrong? Not hardly. I'm just not waving a molon labe flag in one hand and my firearm in the other. That would be dumb when facing a group willing in the past to kill Americans in cold blood.

Again, let's say I join a militia and get scooped up in a federal sting or even killed. How does that help my children be free? It doesn't. It just bankrupts my family and lands me in prison. Not acceptable.

Just this little bit of Constitution would give any prosecutor room to wiggle:
"Washington State Constitution, SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.
The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."

What is a militia if not an armed body of men? I know a miltita is far more than that but what of your typical LEO or government official who reads the dreck that they call intelligence from Janet? You know, the drivel where anyone who loves the Constitutuion is a clear threat to "homeland security". What do they see and think? Threat, threat, threat...

So, today, while I may hold to many of the same ideas and even preach the same ideals to folks, do I openly associate myself with a group of individuals who will be seized in the first wave of internments? Would that be wise? Will I stand with them on that day? You bet. How about you?

Metalhead47 said:

That's right make fun of the fat guy based on a photo with zero context. He can't support & defend the Constitution or his family. Fat folks have less value as human beings after all, they don't need the same rights as everyone else.

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How do you know that the point of the picture wasn't they guy right behind him in all the camouflage. Oh wait, he was camouflaged.

I do question the guy in the foreground "whittling" with a trenching tool though.

SayWhat said:

The fact of the matter is he is there doing his part, what ever it is, while others are sitting on their arse being keyboard commandos.

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You're right. BTW, I served in the US Military while a lot of so called "citizens" were running to Canada to avoid their obligations. A lot of people today also have "better things to do" than serve. What branch of the Military did you serve in? Or did/do you have better things to do with your time?

amlevin said:

You're right. BTW, I served in the US Military while a lot of so called "citizens" were running to Canada to avoid their obligations. A lot of people today also have "better things to do" than serve. What branch of the Military did you serve in? Or did/do you have better things to do with your time?

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What obligation? Can you please point to the part of the constitution we are obligated to serve in political wars that were not even constitutionally declared.

And a draft is just plain unconstitutional.

sudden valley gunner said:

What obligation? Can you please point to the part of the constitution we are obligated to serve in political wars that were not even constitutionally declared.

And a draft is just plain unconstitutional.

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I do not know if the constitution says anything about required military service but Thomas Jefferson did say the following

" Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state."

I think we must lead by the example given to us by our founding fathers, only by following their examples will our country become what so many men have fought and died for

sudden valley gunner said:

What obligation? Can you please point to the part of the constitution we are obligated to serve in political wars that were not even constitutionally declared.

And a draft is just plain unconstitutional.

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Well, Congress does have the authority to "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" but that hardly addresses sending the army to the Gulf. As I said before, the militia is a defensive force, not designed for projecting power beyond the borders of these United States.

Regarding the draft, I can see it having some legitimacy IN THE CASE OF AN INVASION of the United States. For Vietnam? No.

amlevin said:

You're right. BTW, I served in the US Military while a lot of so called "citizens" were running to Canada to avoid their obligations. A lot of people today also have "better things to do" than serve. What branch of the Military did you serve in? Or did/do you have better things to do with your time?

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I tried to enlist but I was disqualified due to a birth defect in my heart and the two operations I have had on it. I can not guarantee the military I will not go back into a irregular rhythm at any time. Maybe that's why the idea of a militia is appealing

fire suppressor said:

I do not know if the constitution says anything about required military service but Thomas Jefferson did say the following

" Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state."

I think we must lead by the example given to us by our founding fathers, only by following their examples will our country become what so many men have fought and died for

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On our soil.

gogodawgs said:

On our soil.

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Battles are often fought on foreign soil so we don't have to fight here on our own.

What continental US soil has been occupied by foreign forces in the last 100 years?

Should we have waited until Japan invaded the US? Likewise for Germany and Italy?

This country has been fighting on foreign soil or in foreign waters since the days of Thomas Jefferson to protect US interests.

amlevin said:

Battles are often fought on foreign soil so we don't have to fight here on our own.

What continental US soil has been occupied by foreign forces in the last 100 years?

Should we have waited until Japan invaded the US? Likewise for Germany and Italy?

This country has been fighting on foreign soil or in foreign waters since the days of Thomas Jefferson to protect US interests.

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The wars of the last 60 years have been different in character than most that preceded them. There was a slim possibility that Japan or Germany could have invaded the Continental US but North Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Would Germany or Japan have even considered invading America if there was 15,000,000 plus militia here, defending their homes? With a rifle behind every tree or building? That is the threat of a militia. You can come, but you will die here.

In my mind I draw a distinction between when the US is directly threatened and when "our interests" are. "Our interests" are rarely mine. More often they relate directly to the financial well being of the Few. And is that a good reason to die? For your kids to die or be maimed, physically or mentally?

Freedom First said:

The wars of the last 60 years have been different in character than most that preceded them. There was a slim possibility that Japan or Germany could have invaded the Continental US but North Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?

Would Germany or Japan have even considered invading America if there was 15,000,000 plus militia here, defending their homes? With a rifle behind every tree or building? That is the threat of a militia. You can come, but you will die here.

In my mind I draw a distinction between when the US is directly threatened and when "our interests" are. "Our interests" are rarely mine. More often they relate directly to the financial well being of the Few. And is that a good reason to die? For your kids to die or be maimed, physically or mentally?

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I agree.
Libya?, Pakistan?, Yemen?, the 130+ other countries we maintain troops in?

amlevin said:

You're right. BTW, I served in the US Military while a lot of so called "citizens" were running to Canada to avoid their obligations. A lot of people today also have "better things to do" than serve. What branch of the Military did you serve in? Or did/do you have better things to do with your time?

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So is someone who didn't serve in the military somewhat less of a citizen to you? Cuz that's what it sounds like.

Did I serve? No. Because I was legally blind when I was of serving age and even after fixing my eyes they weren't good enough to be a pilot. Hows that for an answer.

I am an "able bodied man" and as per the constitution and therefore, by default, I am a member of the US Militia. If I'm called to defend the homeland, I'll be there just the same as you would.

Don't question someones dedication to their country based solely on if they wore a uniform.

SayWhat said:

Did I serve? No. Because I was legally blind when I was of serving age and even after fixing my eyes they weren't good enough to be a pilot. Hows that for an answer.

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Lame.

BigDave said:

Lame.

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I know.. Instead of keeping multi-million dollar companies computer systems running, I should have joined the motor-pool instead. That would have been a much more productive use of my time. People don't need silly things like software, manufacturing equipment, medical, electricity and the like.

I guess us folks that decided to use our brains instead of our brawn should just go be bullet stoppers instead. Of course, y'all won't get cool stuff like Ageis, OnStar, GPS and things like that.


After the stories my Grandfather (MIA/POW/WIA) and my Uncle (POW/WIA/Bataan Death March survivor) told me, my mind was made up, ground war is for fools; and yes I would say that to a generals face if I knew one. If you have to fight, fight from the air and that's what I wanted to do. When they told me no, I changed my path in life. If you can't respect that, it's your problem.

I have no regrets.

BigDave said:

Lame.

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David,
Explain yourself. You seem to accept that he couldn't qualify for military service because of his eyesight, but that once he paid for and went through the surgery to better his eyesight, that he should have served in some capacity that he had no interest in. 4 years is a long time to be doing a job that you hate.

It is one thing to be conscripted into the military when the country needs your services, quite another to volunteer in a capacity for which you will not be 100% committed to your job. It is one of the reasons we went to a voluntary basis for military service.

The military had no interest in him because of his eyesight and were done with him. So you lambast him for not volunteering after HE paid and went through the medical procedures to see better.

What service did you serve in?

I have never served in the military. My father was the Liaison Officer for the Air Force Academy for Eastern Washington for over 20 years out of a 30 plus year career. All I ever have wanted to do was be a pilot in the military and then commercially. I had every intention of Going to the Air Force Academy. But they only accepted candidates who had 20/50 vision or better. Mine was 20/400. Two of my uncles were pilots. One in the Marines and one flew choppers in Vietnam. All my brothers served as has my oldest son.

My draft lottery # was 274. So I was not going to be drafted. Don't even know if I could have passed the physical for grunt. But had my # been 6, I would have tried to enlist doing something interesting and served.
Took my ASVAB and scored a 95. The Navy wanted to put me through Nuclear School. Last place I was interested in being was deep in the ass end of a ship, when my desire was to be above the clouds.

My point being, at 18, if I couldn't fly I didn't have a mature enough brain to think of serving in another capacity. Now, at 58, I wish I had served. I think it would have been good for me. But I certainly understand the concept of an 18 year old mind not being open to doing something that my heart was set on.

I could not even qualify for the Fire Service. Minimum of 20/100 needed. Got into the Fire Service by a round about way after restrictions were raised and so have served in a Uniformed service for many years and have loved it. Just not the military.

Personally I can't fault SayWhat. Been there,done that, and understand the mindset.