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Thread: VA Non-Resident Permit question???

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    VA Non-Resident Permit question???

    If I live in a state where it is impossible to get a CC permit (Maryland), but I have non-resident permits (and the appropriate training certificates) from other states that have reciprocity with VA, can I use those training certs to get a VA non-res permit?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    If I live in a state where it is impossible to get a CC permit (Maryland), but I have non-resident permits (and the appropriate training certificates) from other states that have reciprocity with VA, can I use those training certs to get a VA non-res permit?
    Here's the section of 18.2-308 on qualified training:

    G. The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence, nor shall any proof of demonstrated competence expire:

    1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;

    2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

    3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;

    4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

    5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;

    6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in the Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;

    7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class, including an electronic, video, or on-line course, conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;

    8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or

    9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.
    I would argue that having another state's permit that is recognized in Virginia means that Virginia has "licensed" you to carry a concealed handgun. So training used to obtain that permit should suffice.

    Now whether a local judge will see it that way is altogether up for grabs.

    Perhaps you'd be better to submit the course material for the other permit and ask the judge to grant it based on option #9.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    I cant find it now.
    But VA used to (still do?) allow an online training certification.
    You pay,$20. Watch a video then take an online test.
    Once you pass, you print out the certificate and mail it in with the VA application.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Actually, I think I qualify through #3 and #5. BOTH my NC and UT permit instructors were also NRA certified instructors, which qualifies #3.

    And I'm a ranked USPSA member and have my qualification certificate with a Civilian Marksmanship Program group in NC, so I think that qualifies under #5.

    I'll have to call them this week and see...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Actually, I think I qualify through #3 and #5. BOTH my NC and UT permit instructors were also NRA certified instructors, which qualifies #3.

    And I'm a ranked USPSA member and have my qualification certificate with a Civilian Marksmanship Program group in NC, so I think that qualifies under #5.

    I'll have to call them this week and see...

    Any of these should work fine.
    James Reynolds

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    No judge involved...

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Here's the section of 18.2-308 on qualified training:



    I would argue that having another state's permit that is recognized in Virginia means that Virginia has "licensed" you to carry a concealed handgun. So training used to obtain that permit should suffice.

    Now whether a local judge will see it that way is altogether up for grabs.

    Perhaps you'd be better to submit the course material for the other permit and ask the judge to grant it based on option #9.

    TFred
    It's a non-res permit; they are handled by VSP, and local judges aren't involved. Good thing too, since some of them have reading comprehension problems...

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfenter View Post
    It's a non-res permit; they are handled by VSP, and local judges aren't involved. Good thing too, since some of them have reading comprehension problems...
    Oops, of course you are correct... that little "non-resident" nugget slipped right through!

    You know... We ought to press for a slight change in the law: If you don't want to bother carrying a separate photo ID along with your CHP, we should allow Virginia residents to optionally choose to go through the non-resident process, to get a CHP with photo attached. Thoughts?

    TFred

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    NR permits are handled by VSP, not local judges.

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Just curious... if you have a non-resident permits that VA recognizes, why would you want to obtain a VA non-resident permit in addition? Is it a matter of coverage for other states?
    Last edited by BillB; 02-02-2012 at 09:58 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    Just curious... if you have a non-resident permits that VA recognizes, why would you want to obtain a VA non-resident permit in addition? Is it a matter of coverage for other states?
    If Dreamer has established residency in Maryland, his NC permit will likely be or about to be invalid and NC does not issue non-resident permits. I'm sure that he is just trying to cover all bases.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdf
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If Dreamer has established residency in Maryland, his NC permit will likely be or about to be invalid and NC does not issue non-resident permits. I'm sure that he is just trying to cover all bases.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdf
    What bases would these be? If he has a non-resident permit from Utah (implied), then it covers just about everything a VA non-resident permit would.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If Dreamer has established residency in Maryland, his NC permit will likely be or about to be invalid and NC does not issue non-resident permits. I'm sure that he is just trying to cover all bases.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    What bases would these be? If he has a non-resident permit from Utah (implied), then it covers just about everything a VA non-resident permit would.
    Utah (as of 1/1/12) requires that all applicants for a Utah non-resident permit have a valid permit from their home state.
    http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/doc...rApril2011.pdf

    Have no idea when his Utah permit might expire or whether an existing Utah non-resident permit would continue to be legal when he establishes another home state w/o a permit from that state, but do see where this is simplified by acquiring a Virginia non-resident CHP.

    Believe that covers all bases - Never known Dreamer to like loose ends, they tend to trip you up.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot
    Utah (as of 1/1/12) requires that all applicants for a Utah non-resident permit have a valid permit from their home state.
    http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/doc...rApril2011.pdf
    Does not apply to MD. From your link:

    "If a non-resident applicant is from a state that either has a formal reciprocity
    agreement with Utah or recognizes the Utah concealed firearm permit, the
    applicant must hold and provide proof of a current concealed firearm or concealed
    weapon permit issued by the applicant’s state of residency upon application for the
    Utah concealed firearm permit"



    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot
    Have no idea when his Utah permit might expire or whether an existing Utah non-resident permit would continue to be legal when he establishes another home state w/o a permit from that state, but do see where this is simplified by acquiring a Virginia non-resident CHP.
    He can renew his Utah permit unless he moves to a state that has a formal reciprocity agreement with Utah or recognizes a Utah permit. If he does move into one of these states, he should then get a resident permit from that state. What does a non-resident permit from VA do for him?

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    .... What does a non-resident permit from VA do for him?
    It adds New Mexico to the states that recognize his permits to carry concealed

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I cant find it now.
    But VA used to (still do?) allow an online training certification.
    You pay,$20. Watch a video then take an online test.
    Once you pass, you print out the certificate and mail it in with the VA application.
    http://virginiaCHPtraining.com ( i have never known it to be $20)
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I cant find it now.
    But VA used to (still do?) allow an online training certification.
    You pay,$20. Watch a video then take an online test.
    Once you pass, you print out the certificate and mail it in with the VA application.
    A terrible idea to begin with, and one that I am thrilled to hear that the NRA has divested itself from.....
    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Speaking of non-resident CHPs... I just ran across this today in Paragraph K of 18.2-308:

    The State Police shall withhold from public disclosure permittee information submitted to the State Police for purposes of entry into the Virginia Criminal Information Network, except [blah blah blah]. However, nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit the release of (a) records by the State Police concerning permits issued to nonresidents of the Commonwealth pursuant to subsection P1, or (b) statistical summaries, abstracts, or other records containing information in an aggregate form that does not identify any individual permittees.


    I never realized that one could get a list of non-resident CHP holders from the VSP!

    TFred

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    http://virginiaCHPtraining.com ( i have never known it to be $20)
    $29 here: http://www.vaguntraining.com/

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    A terrible idea to begin with, and one that I am thrilled to hear that the NRA has divested itself from.....
    I hear the NRA is about to get into the online training game themselves with Range Safety being the first offered to other than instructors.

    Did you perhaps take this online course?

    http://www.nrahq.org/rtbav/online_in...r_training.asp
    Last edited by BillB; 02-02-2012 at 11:38 PM.

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    It adds New Mexico to the states that recognize his permits to carry concealed
    Yes, and back to my original question to the OP...

    Quote Originally Posted by BillB
    Just curious... if you have a non-resident permits that VA recognizes, why would you want to obtain a VA non-resident permit in addition? Is it a matter of coverage for other states?

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    http://virginiaCHPtraining.com ( i have never known it to be $20)
    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    And FREE here: http://www.mdgunsafety.com/
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillB View Post
    Does not apply to MD. From your link:

    "If a non-resident applicant is from a state that either has a formal reciprocity
    agreement with Utah or recognizes the Utah concealed firearm permit, the
    applicant must hold and provide proof of a current concealed firearm or concealed
    weapon permit issued by the applicant’s state of residency upon application for the
    Utah concealed firearm permit"





    He can renew his Utah permit unless he moves to a state that has a formal reciprocity agreement with Utah or recognizes a Utah permit. If he does move into one of these states, he should then get a resident permit from that state. What does a non-resident permit from VA do for him?
    Concede that you are correct. My bad. We both left out the key element in citing.

    If a non-resident applicant is from a state that either has a formal reciprocity agreement with Utah or recognizes the Utah concealed firearm permit, the applicant must hold and provide proof of a current concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit issued by the applicant’s state of residency upon application for the Utah concealed firearm permit. This change will not affect those applicants who reside in a state that does not have formal reciprocity or recognition with Utah, i.e. California, New York, Kansas, etc.
    http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/doc...rApril2011.pdf

    Wonder if Dreamer may have missed this key distinction or if he prefers a VA non-resident permit for another reason(s).
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    Wonder if Dreamer may have missed this key distinction or if he prefers a VA non-resident permit for another reason(s).
    The reason I asked the question is that he may have some good reason that is not apparent to me or others posting in this thread. If so, I and perhaps we learn something new. Or, perhaps he is considering getting a VA non-resident permit because of some misunderstanding on his part. If so, we have a chance to save him spending a $100 on something he does not need or really want.

    Given a reason, there may well be additional and smarter ways to meet the need. For example, those considering doing an online course to meet VA CHP training requirements may read Ed's reply and use MD's free online safety course and save $30 to $40. Or better yet, take ProShooter's course and learn something about carrying in addition to basic safety.
    Last edited by BillB; 02-03-2012 at 12:43 AM.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    im surprised nobody has said this,,,

    in order to be exempt from the Federal GFSZ law,
    You must have a permit issued by The STATE in which the school is located.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    im surprised nobody has said this,,,

    in order to be exempt from the Federal GFSZ law,
    You must have a permit issued by The STATE in which the school is located.
    And it's a felony to boot. This bad law pretty much makes a mockery of state permit reciprocity since it's nearly impossible to drive around in any state without entering an area within 1000 feet of a k-12 school. Good thing it's not enforced as a standalone law.

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