Carrying Near a College Campus

HighFlyingA380 · Feb 2, 2012

Hey guys, I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've been trying to get into shape more, and want to start going for walks. Unfortunately, my apartment is right on the edge of campus. To get to downtown and anywhere that's not residential, I pretty much have to walk near campus. What I'm worried about is even thou it would be city streets and sidewalks, they (cops or campus security) will arrest me for carrying on campus. Are the sidewalks along campus (not IN, but along) city owned? Any insight into this? Should I go to somebody in the city government to get some clarification? Thanks for your help!

MAC702 · Feb 3, 2012

I can tell you that I see a lot of high school students (in my area) smoking on the sidewalk adjacent to the high school, smoking on the campus being prohibited.

Freedom 1st · Feb 3, 2012

HighFlyingA380 said:
Hey guys, I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've been trying to get into shape more, and want to start going for walks. Unfortunately, my apartment is right on the edge of campus. To get to downtown and anywhere that's not residential, I pretty much have to walk near campus. What I'm worried about is even thou it would be city streets and sidewalks, they (cops or campus security) will arrest me for carrying on campus. Are the sidewalks along campus (not IN, but along) city owned? Any insight into this? Should I go to somebody in the city government to get some clarification? Thanks for your help!

Anytime you carry (within 1000 ft of a school) I would think you were subject to GFSZ laws. But hopefully, I could be mistaken, and the federal law does not pertain to a colleges.
If it does, the only way I could see you getting around that, would be with a MISSOURI CCW permit.

edit: GFSZ= federal gun free school zone

MAC702 · Feb 3, 2012

HighFlyingA380 said:
...Should I go to somebody in the city government to get some clarification?...

That's the best one I've heard all day so far!

bc.cruiser · Feb 3, 2012

If you want to know exactly who owns the street and/or sidewalk, check with the city's roads and ground division. The GFSZ does not apply to colleges, only to elementary and secondary schools.

HighFlyingA380 · Feb 3, 2012

MAC702 said:
I can tell you that I see a lot of high school students (in my area) smoking on the sidewalk adjacent to the high school, smoking on the campus being prohibited.

Unfortunately, firearms are taken slightly more serious than smoking. Also, most of the time, smoking is regulated by the school, not laws.

Freedom 1st said:
Anytime you carry (within 1000 ft of a school) I would think you were subject to GFSZ laws. But hopefully, I could be mistaken, and the federal law does not pertain to a colleges.
If it does, the only way I could see you getting around that, would be with a MISSOURI CCW permit.

edit: GFSZ= federal gun free school zone

As bc.cruiser says below, I'm pretty much sure that doesn't come into effect here. Missouri has no laws regarding campus carry, they leave it to to university to regulate.

bc.cruiser said:
If you want to know exactly who owns the street and/or sidewalk, check with the city's roads and ground division. The GFSZ does not apply to colleges, only to elementary and secondary schools.

Would I just go to City Hall and request that information?

Oramac · Feb 3, 2012

Do you have your CCW? Are you a student at the college? If you answered yes, no, then just go ahead and carry. It's perfectly legal.

RSMO 571.107 said:
2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5710000107.htm

Colleges are number 10, so well within the 1-17 guideline. I spoke with the lawyer who wrote the law specifically about this section, as I was in college at the time I got my permit. You can carry on campus just fine according to MO law. However if you are a student and they find out, you WILL be expelled.

EDIT: added link to MO statute.

EDIT2: I see you're in Warrensburg. That's actually where I started carrying, and where I went to college. Stinkin small, but a pretty nice town.

HighFlyingA380 · Feb 3, 2012

Oramac said:
Do you have your CCW? Are you a student at the college? If you answered yes, no, then just go ahead and carry. It's perfectly legal.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5710000107.htm

Colleges are number 10, so well within the 1-17 guideline. I spoke with the lawyer who wrote the law specifically about this section, as I was in college at the time I got my permit. You can carry on campus just fine according to MO law. However if you are a student and they find out, you WILL be expelled.

EDIT: added link to MO statute.

EDIT2: I see you're in Warrensburg. That's actually where I started carrying, and where I went to college. Stinkin small, but a pretty nice town.

CCW: pending. I'm getting Maine non-res, and they're backlogged like crazy. She said about a week and it'll be processed.

I know that Missouri law allows it, that's why I believe that the university policies about carrying on campus and in vehicles is technically illegal, and unenforceable, since MO laws outrank them. And, since it's a state school, not private, they have no right to do so. I just don't want to take the chance. I'm thinking about writing a letter requesting to be exempt from their policy (which they state is allowed according to the student handbook).

Yeah, it's pretty small but I live just west of campus (the old Collegiate Station), so to get anywhere I'm almost always bordering campus, unless I take a half mile detour each way.

PS: What was your major?

Oramac · Feb 3, 2012

HighFlyingA380 said:
CCW: pending. I'm getting Maine non-res, and they're backlogged like crazy. She said about a week and it'll be processed.

I know that Missouri law allows it, that's why I believe that the university policies about carrying on campus and in vehicles is technically illegal, and unenforceable, since MO laws outrank them. And, since it's a state school, not private, they have no right to do so. I just don't want to take the chance. I'm thinking about writing a letter requesting to be exempt from their policy (which they state is allowed according to the student handbook).

I think it's not lawful too, but until we have someone act as the proverbial sacrificial lamb and be a test case, it'll never change.

Yeah, it's pretty small but I live just west of campus (the old Collegiate Station), so to get anywhere I'm almost always bordering campus, unless I take a half mile detour each way.

PS: What was your major?

Good deal. I lived in the apartments off 13 right behind Break Time. I was Automotive Management, and also did a lot in the Business Administration area.

REALteach4u · Feb 6, 2012

Freedom 1st said:
Anytime you carry (within 1000 ft of a school) I would think you were subject to GFSZ laws. But hopefully, I could be mistaken, and the federal law does not pertain to a colleges.
If it does, the only way I could see you getting around that, would be with a MISSOURI CCW permit.

edit: GFSZ= federal gun free school zone

A CCW endorsement or endorsement from any other State or political subdivision would be restricted by Federal law and the Safe Schools Act is a Federal law. RSMO 571.107.1(9) Any place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law;

There are provisions within that same section that would allow you to carry onto a campus with permission which would alleviate the State crime, but it in no way alleviates the Federal matter.

These are examples of why our law needs to be changed to no restrictions and say: wherever said person has a lawful purpose to be.

Redbaron007 · Feb 6, 2012

REALteach4u said:
A CCW endorsement or endorsement from any other State or political subdivision would be restricted by Federal law and the Safe Schools Act is a Federal law. RSMO 571.107.1(9) Any place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law;

There are provisions within that same section that would allow you to carry onto a campus with permission which would alleviate the State crime, but it in no way alleviates the Federal matter.

These are examples of why our law needs to be changed to no restrictions and say: wherever said person has a lawful purpose to be.

IIRC correctly, the fed GFSZ allows state laws to overide this act and MO CCW laws do that. Here is the ATF brochure. The GFSZ is not pre-emptive.

Then here is the state CCW law on schools in MO; #10.

Freedom 1st · Feb 6, 2012

Simple terms

To my understanding federal and state law.

Missouri CCW permit/ Missouri school= legal to carry. According to state and federal law
Az permit/ Missouri school= NOT legal to carry.
Missouri permit/ Az school= NOT legal to carry.

According to federal law you are only exmempt from the GFSZ laws, if you are licensced by the state in which the school is located.
I only use Az as an example, you could insert any other state (besides MO) with same results

Oramac · Feb 6, 2012

Redbaron007 said:
IIRC correctly, the fed GFSZ allows state laws to overide this act and MO CCW laws do that. Here is the ATF brochure. The GFSZ is not pre-emptive.

Then here is the state CCW law on schools in MO; #10.

This is as I understand it as well. Also, the lawyer that wrote the MO law specifically told me it was ok when I asked him point blank about it.

As always though, IANAL. Individual research and confirmation is recommended.

Redbaron007 · Feb 6, 2012

Freedom 1st said:
To my understanding federal and state law.

Missouri CCW permit/ Missouri school= legal to carry. According to state and federal law
Az permit/ Missouri school= NOT legal to carry.
Missouri permit/ Az school= NOT legal to carry.

According to federal law you are only exmempt from the GFSZ laws, if you are licensced by the state in which the school is located.
I only use Az as an example, you could insert any other state (besides MO) with same results

I agree with you. You have to have that State's CCW for it to be effective.
Question...AZ perimit = AZ schools (but MO resident...does it make a difference?) Just curious.

HighFlyingA380 · Feb 6, 2012

Redbaron007 said:
I agree with you. You have to have that State's CCW for it to be effective.
Question...AZ perimit = AZ schools (but MO resident...does it make a difference?) Just curious.

It seems to me that by Missouri accepting the Maine CCW permit for me, doesn't that mean they are indirectly authorizing it? Ie: ME non-res permit accepted by MO would allow carry on campus in MO? Maybe I'm just thinking too deep about it.

MAC702 · Feb 6, 2012

That is a very good question, and I agree that it should, however, the Federal law is worded "licensed by the state" not "authorized by the state."

You are authorized to drive in my state with your out-of-state driver's license, but that doesn't mean my state is licensing you for the activity.

Freedom 1st · Feb 6, 2012

HighFlyingA380 said:
It seems to me that by Missouri accepting the Maine CCW permit for me, doesn't that mean they are indirectly authorizing it? Ie: ME non-res permit accepted by MO would allow carry on campus in MO? Maybe I'm just thinking too deep about it.

To my understanding the only way you would be exempt from federal law, concerning a Missouri school (GFSZ) would be with a valid Missouri permit.
I heard a saying once or twice somewhere, " It doesn't have to make sense, it's the law."

Originally Posted by Redbaron007
I agree with you. You have to have that State's CCW for it to be effective.
Question...AZ perimit = AZ schools (but MO resident...does it make a difference?) Just curious

Good question, I would think you would be exempt from the federal law. But I couldn't speak to AZ state laws.

HighFlyingA380 · Feb 6, 2012

This crap is ridiculous. :banghead: How on Earth did our country get to this state? :cuss: Pisses me off that very few people use common sense anymore. I think we should all pool our money and buy a country.

DWCook · Feb 11, 2012

HighFlyingA380 said:
This crap is ridiculous. :banghead: How on Earth did our country get to this state? :cuss: Pisses me off that very few people use common sense anymore. I think we should all pool our money and buy a country.

Late response due to just reading this thread! But I like this idea!!!!

LMTD · Feb 11, 2012

DWCook said:
Late response due to just reading this thread! But I like this idea!!!!

then send some to folks who do things like sponsor SB680

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