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Thread: Newbie with a question

  1. #1
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    Newbie with a question

    I have been carrying both open and concealed for about 10 years, open carry mostly in smaller towns in eastern nc. my question is about gun free school zones, take ECU for example, if iam in my vehicle on 5th street traveling thru campus does the GFSZ extend to the road? how about the sidewalk?




    thanks in advance
    Rogelio

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    Understand this is my PERSONAL view. Don't worry too much about the Federal GFSZ (within 1000' of a school) law. If you abided by it you would never carry anywhere as it requires a CHP and the gun locked away, unloaded, to be in compliance. Just don't be doing something stupid within the zone.

    On the off chance that you have confused GFSZ laws with state laws about school property: City streets do not belong to the school; sidewalks may or may not, depending on who installed them. Driving through campus, just follow the advice in first paragraph. Walking through campus, open carrying, you would be asking for trouble. Even if CC, if someone realized you had a gun you could still be in for a hard time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    Understand this is my PERSONAL view. Don't worry too much about the Federal GFSZ (within 1000' of a school) law. If you abided by it you would never carry anywhere as it requires a CHP and the gun locked away, unloaded, to be in compliance. Just don't be doing something stupid within the zone.

    On the off chance that you have confused GFSZ laws with state laws about school property: City streets do not belong to the school; sidewalks may or may not, depending on who installed them. Driving through campus, just follow the advice in first paragraph. Walking through campus, open carrying, you would be asking for trouble. Even if CC, if someone realized you had a gun you could still be in for a hard time.
    Thanks, that was my first instinct, when i travel from my house to work i take 5th which travels thru the "heart" of ECU.

    This forum has been a wealth of knowledge for me........


    thanks
    Rogelio

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    Regular Member Large Caliber Kick's Avatar
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    Also, federal GFSZ's only apply to grade schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Large Caliber Kick View Post
    Also, federal GFSZ's only apply to grade schools.
    Thanks for the input........so many rules just to be able to exercise my god given right to self defence.


    Rogelio

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    Quote Originally Posted by Large Caliber Kick View Post
    Also, federal GFSZ's only apply to grade schools.
    Here I was, coming back to edit my post to say that the GFSZ doesn't apply to colleges, and you beat me to it. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    Here I was, coming back to edit my post to say that the GFSZ doesn't apply to colleges, and you beat me to it. Thanks.
    Once again, thanks for all the help, i hope to become more active on opencarry as time goes by. In all the years of open carrying i have yet to be contacted by law enforcement, i have had many weird looks and a few comments.

    Thanks
    Rogelio

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    This is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything, but I was stopped for a brake light or something on 10th street (the other adjacent to campus street) and it was a non issue as I expected.

    I wouldn't drive THROUGH campus with a firearm in the truck though
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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    If you have a NC CHP (or a permit from the state you are currently traveling in), you are exempt from the federal GFSZ IN NC. If you travel to another state, you CANNOT have a gun in a GFSZ with a NC CHP.

    The GFSZ's are federal law and regulated by the ATFE and not the state. This is another reason to have a NC CHP. You can then walk open carrying through a GFSZ without worry. I am trying to post the ATFE letter explaining this but it might take me a while to figure it out.

    Figured it out, below is the link.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

    Last edited by gary737; 02-03-2012 at 04:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    ..... If you abided by it you would never carry anywhere as it requires a CHP and the gun locked away, unloaded, to be in compliance. Just don't be doing something stupid within the zone.......
    If you have a NC CHP you do NOT have to worry about the GFSZ's in NC, and the firearm doesn't need to be unloaded and locked away.
    Last edited by gary737; 02-03-2012 at 04:39 PM.

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    The NC CHP overrides the 1000' federal rule.

    The Gun Free School Zones Act states:[6]
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) SUBPARAGRAPH (A) DOES NOT APPLY TO THE POSSESSION OF A FIREARM—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) IF THE INDIVIDUAL POSSESSING THE FIREARM IS LICENSED TO DO SO BY THE STATE IN WHICH THE SCHOOL ZONE IS LOCATED OR A POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    If you have a NC CHP (or a permit from the state you are currently traveling in), you are exempt from the federal GFSZ IN NC. If you travel to another state, you CANNOT have a gun in a GFSZ with a NC CHP.
    The GFSZ's are federal law and regulated by the ATFE and not the state. This is another reason to have a NC CHP. You can then walk open carrying through a GFSZ without worry. I am trying to post the ATFE letter explaining this but it might take me a while to figure it out.
    Figured it out, below is the link.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf
    Thanks Gary737. I think I got beyond the original question and did not specify that he would be exempt if he had a NC CHP.

    Chiefjason: You are almost correct. As written, a CHP holder can possess, etc., in a GFSZ in the issuing state, but it still must be unloaded and locked up. 18 USC 922 (q)(2)(B)(iii). As I said, we pretty much ignore this, because unless we really screw up, our NC LEOs likely aren't going to pile on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    .......in a GFSZ in the issuing state, but it still must be unloaded and locked up. 18 USC 922 (q)(2)(B)(iii)......
    I disagree that is has to be unloaded.

    18 USC § 922 (q)(2) --

    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

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    Hey guys. New to the forum. I am a bit concerned that you're possibly reading the law incorrectly. Hopefully I'm wrong though. What I'm thinking is that you're confusing our permit with a license. I think the terminology is something that could get someone into trouble. I'm thinking, again hoping I'm wrong, that a license to carry is something issued to a LEO or state official acting under his job duties. Any input?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Curtis View Post
    Hey guys. New to the forum. I am a bit concerned that you're possibly reading the law incorrectly. Hopefully I'm wrong though. What I'm thinking is that you're confusing our permit with a license. I think the terminology is something that could get someone into trouble. I'm thinking, again hoping I'm wrong, that a license to carry is something issued to a LEO or state official acting under his job duties. Any input?

    The Feeral GFSZ law uses the term "license" to mean ANY credential issued by a specific state that grants carry privileges to the holder. Some states call them "licenses", some call it "permit". Under the Federal GFSZ law, these are functionally the same thing.

    In NC, if you have a NC-issued CHP, you are exempt from the Federal GFSZ carry restrictions. This means you can drive through an elementary, middle, or high school zone and be OK to carry.

    The Federal law DOES NOT apply to colleges and universities.

    And even with a NC CHP, you CANNOT go ONTO school property, PERIOD, with a firearm--even if it is unloaded and locked up in your vehicle. Possession of a firearm in any way while on school property is against NC state law. And this DOES include Universities and colleges, even private schools and community colleges.

    If you are a student, faculty, staff, or have official business connections with the University, carrying on school property (or even possessing a firearm in your vehicle) is a FELONY.

    If you have no ties to the university, but are just "passing through" and are caught on school property in possession of a firearm, it is a misdemeanor. (yeah, THAT makes sense...)

    Also, your NC CHP will ONLY give you exemption from the Federal GFSZs in NC. This exemption does not apply to School Zones in another state--even if your NC CHP is recognized by that state (like VA, WV, SC, PA, etc...)

    Hope that clears things up for you.
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    That sounds more believable. One poster above made mention that you could open carry in a GFSZ if you had a CHP, and that sounded a bit far fetched. I guess maybe they're referring to the 1000' area around the school, and not actually on the property? Another question, let's say I'm dropping my kids off at school, I'm not allowed to have a gun in my car? That's utterly ridiculous IMHO. I guess out of sight out of mind, and don't act stupid can go a long way...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Curtis View Post
    ...... One poster above made mention that you could open carry in a GFSZ if you had a CHP, and that sounded a bit far fetched. I guess maybe they're referring to the 1000' area around the school, and not actually on the property?.........

    I was the one that posted that. To be clear, the GFSZ is the 1,000 feet AROUND the school property, NOT the property itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Curtis View Post
    That sounds more believable. One poster above made mention that you could open carry in a GFSZ if you had a CHP, and that sounded a bit far fetched. I guess maybe they're referring to the 1000' area around the school, and not actually on the property? Another question, let's say I'm dropping my kids off at school, I'm not allowed to have a gun in my car? That's utterly ridiculous IMHO. I guess out of sight out of mind, and don't act stupid can go a long way...
    The original post asked about GFSZs. Terminology has been corrected, and I think that horse has expired.
    I will refrain from again posting my interpretation of the referenced federal law. Except in person, and after I have bought the first round.

    I think your question about guns and school property has been answered by Dreamer. Take a note here: If you get an answer from him about the law, believe it.

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    The whole GFSZ thing is a mess and up for debate ad naseum. I think the most important part is that locally no one seems to care. NC started to issue signage at one point, but ended production of the signs. I think that speaks volumes.

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    I avoid 5th and use 10th when practical. My concern is, what do the ECU and city police understand about the law?

    Oh yes, and leave your umbrella at home. But that's another story.................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resto Guy View Post
    I avoid 5th and use 10th when practical. My concern is, what do the ECU and city police understand about the law?

    Oh yes, and leave your umbrella at home. But that's another story.................

    Well, 1000 feet is about 1/5 of a mile. I'm CERTAIN that the convenience store beside the "Sup Dog" on 5th and Reade is well within that range, and I was involved in a traffic accident (actually I was out of my vehicle and some kid backed into it with his pickup truck) while I was OCing my Glock 36 and half a dozen GPD officers watched the whole thing from across the street.

    They didn't make me disarm. They didn't treat me like a criminal. GFSZ didn't even enter into the discussion. All in all, I thought they handled it very professionally.

    Of course in G-Vegas, as we all know, YMMV, depending on your age and appearance...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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  22. #22
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    You were on private property. There might be a different reaction if you were bumped on 5th street and standing on the public sidewalk. YMMV according to who shows up to make the report, also.
    After seeing video and print media of the umbrella story that you are very familiar with, I usually take a different path.

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