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Thread: Nevada Firearms Coalition Progress ?

  1. #26
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    [QUOTE=varminter22;1695535]Only a few hundred members so far. Working on getting the word out. We need to recruit many more members!

    [QUOTE]

    A membership drive might help. They could offer a life membership at 50% $$ as an incentive to join.
    Due to the poor economy people are just not running around looking for another club to join so how about an incentive?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    Am anxious to hear your predictions on a wide range of subjects!

    Seriously, I can say the NFC is working on issues.

    Perhaps you could contact NFC and offer your service and suggestions.
    I contacted the NFC, I offered my services and a easy way for them to collect a name for themselves. It was immediatly brought to my attention that I was not a Paying member....... I was told,if I want a voice I need to caugh up some $$$$ We will see if my work on the Sheriffs and Chiefs will pay off down the road, but you would think that NFC would at least be interested. Sorry NFC, I need to save my money for filing fees.to do something no "rights Org. has the Hutspah to do.
    Last edited by DON`T TREAD ON ME; 02-07-2012 at 10:52 AM. Reason: sp

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Why would you expect, or require, a media story about what they are working on?
    Well, that's kinda what the media DOES, you know . . .they write STORIES about things that are happening.

    No stories pretty much means nothing happening.

    However, you're dodging the fact that I asked for contact info for whoever it is who IS doing something, so the media story isn't the only proof I'll accept.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Well, that's kinda what the media DOES, you know . . .they write STORIES about things that are happening.
    Why would you expect this specific to even BE in the media?
    Quote Originally Posted by DVC
    No stories pretty much means nothing happening.
    No, 'no stories' about a specific subject just means that no media outlet has prepared and released a story. It doesn't indicate 'nothing happening.'
    Quote Originally Posted by DVC
    However, you're dodging the fact that I asked for contact info for whoever it is who IS doing something, so the media story isn't the only proof I'll accept.
    No, I didn't dodge that fact. I simply didn't address that fact.







    NOTE: I am well aware of the role media plays.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Why would you expect this specific to even BE in the media?
    It's red meat for the hoplophobes whenever anyone is trying to reduce gun restrictions, and they watch these things closely (when I filed the Defense Rights Initiative, I was getting phone calls from media around the country before I got home from Phoenix). If someone were doing something, it would be noticed by the media down in the Sharp End.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    It's red meat for the hoplophobes whenever anyone is trying to reduce gun restrictions, and they watch these things closely (when I filed the Defense Rights Initiative, I was getting phone calls from media around the country before I got home from Phoenix). If someone were doing something, it would be noticed by the media down in the Sharp End.
    Sounds like a good reason to keep it on the QT then.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    No stories pretty much means nothing happening.
    Not necessarily. There is a time and a place ...

    Do you really believe that organizations or federal, state, or county legislators release info of their work and discussions with various entities?

    That said, perhaps NFC could do better at getting the word out. I'll suggest more communication.
    Last edited by varminter22; 02-08-2012 at 08:27 AM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    Do you really believe that organizations or federal, state, or county legislators release info of their work and discussions with various entities?
    We heard about a PRIVATE MEETING in which the hoplophobes were told by the PRESIDENT that he was working on gun control "under the radar."

    There are few secrets when it comes to such a hot-button subject, and, frankly, I don't think that such a secret could be kept in Nevada during an election year. If things were happening, that fact would be about as easy to hide as an Apollo moonship next to the junction of I-80 and US95.

  9. #34
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    Suggestion made to better communicate!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    Suggestion made to better communicate!
    So, what's the official pravda here? The other day you were saying that you're "not at liberty" to tell us anything, and today you're saying that it's a lack of communication.

    You are still giving nothing of substance, nor giving any name for someone to contact.

    Oh, I get it -- this is POLITICAL HOMEOPATHY, where there is no actual content, but you still call it medicine and say that if we have faith, it will work!

    So, NVFAC is like Dumbo's magic feather -- if we hold tightly, we can fly, and if we fly, you will claim that NVFAC is the reason.

    I saw who some of the leaders were, and the NRA in the middle of this, and asked to have my doubts proven wrong. All that I see and hear reinforces them. I notice that wrightme has very carefully NOT made any claims of the "coalition" actually doing anything.

    Now, the million-dollar question: have the other civil rights groups in the state lost steam? Is Stillwater as active as it was two years ago? Or have you all fallen in line behind this new messiah, who preaches to wait for pie in the sky . . ?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    So, what's the official pravda here? The other day you were saying that you're "not at liberty" to tell us anything, and today you're saying that it's a lack of communication.

    You are still giving nothing of substance, nor giving any name for someone to contact.

    Oh, I get it -- this is POLITICAL HOMEOPATHY, where there is no actual content, but you still call it medicine and say that if we have faith, it will work!

    So, NVFAC is like Dumbo's magic feather -- if we hold tightly, we can fly, and if we fly, you will claim that NVFAC is the reason.

    I saw who some of the leaders were, and the NRA in the middle of this, and asked to have my doubts proven wrong. All that I see and hear reinforces them. I notice that wrightme has very carefully NOT made any claims of the "coalition" actually doing anything.

    Now, the million-dollar question: have the other civil rights groups in the state lost steam? Is Stillwater as active as it was two years ago? Or have you all fallen in line behind this new messiah, who preaches to wait for pie in the sky . . ?
    Dude, it's between sessions. Why don't you give all the badmouthing a rest? It doesn't happen on your timeline. If you are so worried about not hearing what the NVFAC is doing, then JOIN them so you can get it right when it happens. Otherwise, frankly, KYBMS.

    But, I must say, you have helped convince me. I have been on the fence about joining them, but given the dislike you harbor for them, I am changing my position and believe they MUST be doing something right. Gonna join today.
    Last edited by wrightme; 02-09-2012 at 12:30 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  12. #37
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    There. Membership app submitted. Put your money where YOUR mouth is, join, and find out what they are doing.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Dude, it's between sessions. Why don't you give all the badmouthing a rest? It doesn't happen on your timeline. If you are so worried about not hearing what the NVFAC is doing, then JOIN them so you can get it right when it happens. Otherwise, frankly, KYBMS.

    But, I must say, you have helped convince me. I have been on the fence about joining them, but given the dislike you harbor for them, I am changing my position and believe they MUST be doing something right. Gonna join today.
    Why are you are waiting on the legislature to do something? The founders did not say you must be a vigilant citizen, as long as legislature is in session.

    Is NVFAC working the primaries?
    What is NVFAC doing about the unconstitutional involvement of the Nevada Sheriffs and chiefs assoc?
    Does the NVFAC have a "published position" on open carry? (rights)
    Does the NVFAC have a plan in place to deal with the illegal lobbying of state, and elected officials?
    What is the top priority of the NVFAC?
    The questions can go on for hours, and it seems that the dodging matches exactly.

    I really did not want answers, I just want to hear the "canned Join and find out" response.

    So lets really set the record straight. the NVFAC is run by well intentioned great guys... That being said, it is hard to promote something that is designed to be very limited from the onset. The truth is the NVFAC cannot and will not get involved in primary campaigns where all candidates are at their most vulnerable point and most reachable. (you volunteer for a campaign in a tight race and your newly elected BFF wont care if you carry a Sherman tank with you to PTA meetings.)

    The NVFAC cannot protect your rights. You are the only person that can protect your individual rights, hence the name. good example is the NRA says they helped bring the right to bear arms to XX amount of states. Truth is they registered gun owners, who in states like Texas and Florida have zero handgun rights, they however can ask permission.

    The NVFAC went to the sheriffs and Chiefs meeting Don Turner said they "look forward to working with the Sheriffs and Chiefs" why does NVFAC look forward to working with a iligitimate governmental entity who has veto power over our elected officials, and has demonstrated that they have no intention of being accountable for their governance? Why does the NRA still give Senator John lee a "A" rating when he was instrumental in putting this dictatorship in power? Will the NVFAC stand by the NRA in their decision to back John Lee?.... I would bet on it.

    The NVFAC would like us to believe that if we show interest in the bills, write on the legislature website, show up at the statehouse for bill hearings that together we can effect change. While I see the point to some of that you should ask yourself is that how change happens in the other direction? Did the Pro- cell phone law people go to the hearings pack the state house? No. So how does a law get passed?

    We saw last spring a bunch of uprising in the middle east. some people took over their countries in a matter of hours. the founders said it correctly our country is governed by the consent of the people. Well so is your gun organization. if you blindly join and trust, they will believe that they have your support. (support for what?) that's the kicker, they want members, members equals power. that power comes from the members to be channeled into the organization, for the purpose of ............. ("Join and you will find out?")
    Would you place a vote for a politician who will only let you in on his morals and ideals after you vote for him? that seems to be what I am hearing from the NVFAC.

    Sometimes organizations can be an asset but not always. You don't use the same tool to work on your car if the problems are different, sure your car wont run, but an electrical problem requires a different tool than a tire problem etc. What I am saying Is Join the NVFAC if that is your cup of tea, but do not have expectations that they can, will, or want to solve the issues that you and I care about. Realize that their hands are tied when election season comes around, relize that their tactics will involve making "deals" with the enemy in order to gain influence and power. This is a trade off and not pretty business... Just keeping it real.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    There. Membership app submitted. Put your money where YOUR mouth is, join, and find out what they are doing.
    I think that's part of the problem. You have to pay them before you can learn what they are doing or what they plan to do. For all we know, they could be gathering membership money for a purpose that does NOT benefit most of us. This is the exact reason I am no longer a member of the NRA. What if the NVFAC are planning to propose some "common sense" gun laws? What if they are going to work towards a permission slip for OC just like we have for CC. I'm assuming this is not the case, but it could be. There is very little specific information on their site to indicate what their plans are.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    Why are you are waiting on the legislature to do something? The founders did not say you must be a vigilant citizen, as long as legislature is in session.
    I didn't say "wait on the legislature." But, much of the needed progress made IS done during the session, and that is also when much of the publicizing of effort is done. IMHO, publicizing pending legislative efforts in the off-year is premature, and 'shows the hand' too soo.



    Quote Originally Posted by DTOM
    Is NVFAC working the primaries?
    What is NVFAC doing about the unconstitutional involvement of the Nevada Sheriffs and chiefs assoc?
    Does the NVFAC have a "published position" on open carry? (rights)
    Does the NVFAC have a plan in place to deal with the illegal lobbying of state, and elected officials?
    What is the top priority of the NVFAC?
    The questions can go on for hours, and it seems that the dodging matches exactly.

    I really did not want answers, I just want to hear the "canned Join and find out" response.
    THen here it is.

    "Join and Find Out."

    Better yet, Join and add you as a member, number, AND volunteer. Together we stand, divided we fall. Calling a group into question just because efforts are apparent or publicized is premature, and just adds to divisiveness. Keep moving towards the goals you desire in your way, and help other groups also. Badmouthing them does no good.


    Quote Originally Posted by DTOM
    So lets really set the record straight. the NVFAC is run by well intentioned great guys... That being said, it is hard to promote something that is designed to be very limited from the onset. The truth is the NVFAC cannot and will not get involved in primary campaigns where all candidates are at their most vulnerable point and most reachable. (you volunteer for a campaign in a tight race and your newly elected BFF wont care if you carry a Sherman tank with you to PTA meetings.)
    So, holding them accountable for that would not be valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by DTOM
    The NVFAC cannot protect your rights. You are the only person that can protect your individual rights, hence the name. good example is the NRA says they helped bring the right to bear arms to XX amount of states. Truth is they registered gun owners, who in states like Texas and Florida have zero handgun rights, they however can ask permission.
    Yes. Have I claimed the opposite?
    Quote Originally Posted by DTOM
    The NVFAC went to the sheriffs and Chiefs meeting Don Turner said they "look forward to working with the Sheriffs and Chiefs" why does NVFAC look forward to working with a iligitimate governmental entity who has veto power over our elected officials, and has demonstrated that they have no intention of being accountable for their governance? Why does the NRA still give Senator John lee a "A" rating when he was instrumental in putting this dictatorship in power? Will the NVFAC stand by the NRA in their decision to back John Lee?.... I would bet on it.
    Ask them. Otherwise, comments about that are simply sniping from the sidelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by DTOM
    The NVFAC would like us to believe that if we show interest in the bills, write on the legislature website, show up at the statehouse for bill hearings that together we can effect change. While I see the point to some of that you should ask yourself is that how change happens in the other direction? Did the Pro- cell phone law people go to the hearings pack the state house? No. So how does a law get passed?
    That comment makes the mistake of assuming that NVFAC presented the ONLY method to get something done. The reality is that the Cell Phone law had enough support to get through the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by DTOM
    We saw last spring a bunch of uprising in the middle east. some people took over their countries in a matter of hours. the founders said it correctly our country is governed by the consent of the people. Well so is your gun organization. if you blindly join and trust, they will believe that they have your support. (support for what?) that's the kicker, they want members, members equals power. that power comes from the members to be channeled into the organization, for the purpose of ............. ("Join and you will find out?")
    Would you place a vote for a politician who will only let you in on his morals and ideals after you vote for him? that seems to be what I am hearing from the NVFAC.
    This isn't the Middle East.

    Now, who is claiming someone should 'blindly join and trust?'


    Quote Originally Posted by DTOM
    Sometimes organizations can be an asset but not always. You don't use the same tool to work on your car if the problems are different, sure your car wont run, but an electrical problem requires a different tool than a tire problem etc. What I am saying Is Join the NVFAC if that is your cup of tea, but do not have expectations that they can, will, or want to solve the issues that you and I care about. Realize that their hands are tied when election season comes around, relize that their tactics will involve making "deals" with the enemy in order to gain influence and power. This is a trade off and not pretty business... Just keeping it real.
    Yes. But, it is a mistake to assume this one won't be an asset, especially barely 6 months from inception. And, the real power of such an organization will be the numbers they have upon start of the next session; because the true battle IS in the session with the legislative efforts. Without statute supportive of our views, the rest is simply time spent towards a cause we support.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Now, SFA was mentioned. It is predominantly Churchill County, mainly Fallon. I think last year we ended with over 700 members, out of a county of ~25,000. Just think if a state organization could get that percentage of membership from the entire state! NFC could conceivably have over 70,000 members, if the percentage held true into Clark County. But if not that, how about just 1/10 of that percentage, and get 7,000 members from Clark County, who all keep pinging NFC to address the Clark County issues in the legislature. But, with only a few hundred members, do not expect them to get much done. So, if people just badmouth them, those badmouthing them will help create a self-defeating prophecy. How about joining them en-masse down in the pointy end, and help ensure your voices are heard in the organization, AND in the legislature?



    Or, would you rather sit back and badmouth an organization that is actually trying to do something?
    Last edited by wrightme; 02-09-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Keep moving towards the goals you desire in your way, and help other groups also. Badmouthing them does no good.
    Cite Please: I want to know whom I was "Badmouthing?"

  18. #43
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    I recall that one of the NFC's priorities is also campus carry. I FINALLY received in the mail today my official rejection letter for permission to carry on the UNR campus. I'll find the other thread about it and update there. I will be sending a copy of my request letter and the rejection letter to the NFC for use in their lobbying efforts. There are few non-cops who are as qualified as I am, and yet I received just more of the same "it's for the children"-type BS.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    Cite Please: I want to know whom I was "Badmouthing?"
    I apologize, you were not badmouthing anyone.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Or, would you rather sit back and badmouth an organization that is actually trying to do something?
    WHAT are they trying to do? Be specific.

    WHO is trying to do it? Be specific.

    All we've seen is about as specific as "We believe in Tuesday," and about as active as hieroglyphics.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Yes. But, it is a mistake to assume this one won't be an asset, especially barely 6 months from inception.
    I formed Arizonans for Defense Rights the same day I filed the Defense Rights Initiative (to provide Constitutional Carry). Three months later, the Arizona Legislature was so afraid of what we were accomplishing that they called back a CCW permit bill which had been rejected earlier in the session (as it had been rejected several years in a row prior) and passed it, in order to take the wind out of our sails.

    We did that with no paid membership, and about $200 in donations -- half of which was a $100 bill kicked in by Colonel Cooper and the Countess -- plus a few petition photocopies made by supporters.

    The idea that a group supposedly working for civil rights, but "6 months from inception" has had no discernible effect -- or even presence -- pretty much doesn't impress me. To say that the problem is lack of members or lack of money REALLY doesn't impress me. We proved that if you are moving, people will come help you push.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    WHAT are they trying to do? Be specific.

    WHO is trying to do it? Be specific.

    All we've seen is about as specific as "We believe in Tuesday," and about as active as hieroglyphics.
    Get in the mix and find out if it bothers you not knowing.
    But, the simple fact is, sitting on the sidelines and badmouthing them doesn't help anything, except your ego.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    I formed Arizonans for Defense Rights the same day I filed the Defense Rights Initiative (to provide Constitutional Carry). Three months later, the Arizona Legislature was so afraid of what we were accomplishing that they called back a CCW permit bill which had been rejected earlier in the session (as it had been rejected several years in a row prior) and passed it, in order to take the wind out of our sails.

    We did that with no paid membership, and about $200 in donations -- half of which was a $100 bill kicked in by Colonel Cooper and the Countess -- plus a few petition photocopies made by supporters.

    The idea that a group supposedly working for civil rights, but "6 months from inception" has had no discernible effect -- or even presence -- pretty much doesn't impress me. To say that the problem is lack of members or lack of money REALLY doesn't impress me. We proved that if you are moving, people will come help you push.
    Good for you on all the above, adn what youd accomplished in AZ.


    You are in NV now.... They aren't there to impress you. Give them your ideas, or quit growsing about it.
    Last edited by wrightme; 02-10-2012 at 09:58 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Since the NVFAC is a non-profit org, I have something that they can do to make a huge difference quickly and easily. This post is directed at varminter as he is a board member, but I decided to ask out in the open to show the OCDO crew that the NVFAC is wanting to make a difference.

    I can, and will write the Nevada open records act request, but need it to be from a non-profit, being active like I am I can get it sent from any non-profit, this request however pertains to a certain gun issue, and may give the NVFAC an opportunity to show some activity.

    The first request is a simple letter asking to use the state building for a meeting, including a video conference to the Grant Sawyer building, and what the requirements would be, both application and monetarily.

    So is the NVFAC game?
    Like I said, I willl write the request, and provide the stamp. All I ask is a pdf of the response. there will be 1 possibly 2 more and thats all
    Last edited by DON`T TREAD ON ME; 02-10-2012 at 10:35 PM.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Get in the mix and find out if it bothers you not knowing.
    The assertion has been made that the "coalition" is actively working on things. Since there is no evidence of this, the burden of proof lies with those who make the claims.

    REPEATED requests for information have not only been met with conflicting dodges, those doing the dodging are getting offended that anyone would actually ASK.

    That pretty much gives the answer to the question.

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