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Thread: Grant County District Court

  1. #1
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Checking a weapon at Grant County District Court

    Used the nice weather as an excuse to pay a ticket, in person, at the Grant County District Court in Ephrata, Washington today. Due to attire, I was cc but I am certain this would apply to any carry, regardless.

    Arrived at the courthouse building, went into one of at least two public entrances and found no "check in" points near the entrances. Asked a receptionist nearby where I needed to check a firearm. Back out of the courthouse building, across a breezeway to the sheriff's office. Enter a second building, find the sheriff's office and press the call button. I told them I needed to check a weapon, and wait a moment before a deputy arrives. He asks for the weapon and I hand him my weapon, holster and all, in condition 1. He disappears around the corner, comes back with a key and I continue on my way. I conclude my brief visit at the court offices, and return back to the sheriff's office.

    Ringing the bell, the receptionist sees me, comes immediately to the door and takes my key. I wait for a moment, and she returns my weapon. Magazine was removed, round out of the chamber. I immediately asked, "Who unloaded my weapon?" She says, "I did not, but we do not allow loaded firearms to be checked in." I politely smiled, said that was a silly policy and left it at that.

    Obviously, I'm not pleased that someone took the liberty of unloading my weapon to secure it. Just yesterday I went to the Franklin County Courthouse and did exactly the same thing without anyone touching my firearm!
    Last edited by Stretch; 02-13-2012 at 07:43 PM. Reason: some poor mod didn't like the title...

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    hahahhaa it says edited for "grammer"



    You WILL respect my authoritahhhhhhhhhh!


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    Modify the gun such that it fires when unloaded and try again. See how they like that! Not all guns operate the same. Foolish to unload it when unnecessary.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I smell an unconstitutional search....such as running your serial numbers......


    Respect my authoritahhhhh!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    At the bellingham court house I get to put my weapon in the lockbox myself. If you go back again, wrap a zip tie across the entire holster.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    At the bellingham court house I get to put my weapon in the lockbox myself. If you go back again, wrap a zip tie across the entire holster.
    So they cut the zip tie off, then what? I doubt there's any law against their rendering a firearm unloaded while in their custody.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    So they cut the zip tie off, then what? I doubt there's any law against their rendering a firearm unloaded while in their custody.
    Because it demonstrates the search aspect of it. The OP checked the weapon in a holster to unload it I am assuming they also had to unholster it. If you put a zip tie around it they would in my opinion need to get a warrant to cut it.

    Is there a law that allows them to mess with someone's private property?

    I believe actions of our government need to be enumerated and limited as intended years ago by our founders.

    Also our RCW's on firearms states that municipalities cannot be more restrictive except....and list the exceptions, demanding ID, stating "no loaded" firearms are permitted, or anything else demanded above what the RCW's state are more restrictive.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    At the bellingham court house I get to put my weapon in the lockbox myself.
    Your Welcome! LOL.....I am proud of that, it was a year long fight to get them to comply with the law and numerous pestering calls to the city attorney. I didn't think a simple working guy, well out of work guy, with no clout or connections could force a city to change it's policy and comply with state law.

    Yet when I win that battle Whatcom County courthouse now breaking the law demanding not just ID but a "Valid State Driver's License".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    I am trying to think where to start with this one.

    At the Franklin County Courthouse, everyone has to go through a screening building, where they provide lock boxes that you un-holster your weapon and lock it. My only beef there is they ask for ID. It is a private company and I asked what happens if I don't have ID. She didn't respond.

    At Grant County, you are sent out of the court building, and across to another building to hand off your weapon. That right there, appears to be in violation of 9.41.300 because it says it is supposed to be in the same building.

  10. #10
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Because it demonstrates the search aspect of it. The OP checked the weapon in a holster to unload it I am assuming they also had to unholster it. If you put a zip tie around it they would in my opinion need to get a warrant to cut it.

    Is there a law that allows them to mess with someone's private property?

    I believe actions of our government need to be enumerated and limited as intended years ago by our founders.

    Also our RCW's on firearms states that municipalities cannot be more restrictive except....and list the exceptions, demanding ID, stating "no loaded" firearms are permitted, or anything else demanded above what the RCW's state are more restrictive.
    You put it in their custody. It's like handing the keys to a valet in front of a casino or restaurant. They are going to drive the car.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    I am trying to think where to start with this one.

    At the Franklin County Courthouse, everyone has to go through a screening building, where they provide lock boxes that you un-holster your weapon and lock it. My only beef there is they ask for ID. It is a private company and I asked what happens if I don't have ID. She didn't respond.

    At Grant County, you are sent out of the court building, and across to another building to hand off your weapon. That right there, appears to be in violation of 9.41.300 because it says it is supposed to be in the same building.
    Sounds like Pierce Co. and sounds like Federal way. Correct, it must be in the same building. That sounds like a letter to the proper authorities is needed.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    You put it in their custody. It's like handing the keys to a valet in front of a casino or restaurant. They are going to drive the car.
    Yes they are going to drive it. But you make certain assumptions when you hand off your key. You assume that that valet does not have the right to drive your car to Vegas for the weekend, search it thoroughly, pilfer the spare change in the center console or sell your spare tire.

    When you place your firearm in the government lockbox, you have certain expectations there as well as to how they will treat it. Among them is that they will not break the law and make a warrantless search without probable cause.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Yes they are going to drive it. But you make certain assumptions when you hand off your key. You assume that that valet does not have the right to drive your car to Vegas for the weekend, search it thoroughly, pilfer the spare change in the center console or sell your spare tire.

    When you place your firearm in the government lockbox, you have certain expectations there as well as to how they will treat it. Among them is that they will not break the law and make a warrantless search without probable cause.
    But they do have the right, perhaps obligation, to make sure it's safe. If you leave the engine running, lights on, and windows down, they will roll them up, turn off the lights, and turn off the engine.

    Good luck on trying to take the issue of unloading the firearm to court. The argument they will present in rebuttal will merely be the safety issue. As for running serial numbers, the only way a court will take notice is if you are "harmed". That would mean if the weapon was then seized as stolen and you were charged in any manner. The warrantlless "search" would then get the evidence tossed. Otherwise you will most likely see the courts saying "no harm, no foul".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The safest firearm is a non handled firearm.

    Please cite where the law grants them the power to unload it?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The safest firearm is a non handled firearm.

    Please cite where the law grants them the power to unload it?
    agreed, I doubt the person handling the firearm is a master gunsmith and certified on every weapon that comes through the checkpoint. Therefore they are ADDING to their liability not lowering it.

  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The safest firearm is a non handled firearm.

    Please cite where the law grants them the power to unload it?
    It would be easier to show that there is no law preventing them from doing so. Remember that we here always argue that if something is not prohibited by law then it's allowed. Same for them as for us.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    agreed, I doubt the person handling the firearm is a master gunsmith and certified on every weapon that comes through the checkpoint. Therefore they are ADDING to their liability not lowering it.
    Did you have to take a course on every new firearm you purchased just so you could unload it safely?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Same for them as for us.

    Not really. "Them" is the state. The state has only those powers we delegate to it. The state has no rights.

    The sovereign individual has the right to do anything unless specifically prohibited by law. The subordinate state has only the powers we specifically delegate to it.
    Last edited by deanf; 02-05-2012 at 12:22 PM.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Did you have to take a course on every new firearm you purchased just so you could unload it safely?
    No, but I am liable if the firearm discharges, I doubt qualified Immunity would attach to someone handling a checked firearm and even if it did, the organization would be liable for damages as well. Pushing for the locations to have lock boxes similar to the post office with an attendant if they so choose would be in everyone's interest. I cannot remember which Court House has the owner of the firearm place it in a locker and take a key, but some do, working for that to be the standard is a worthy goal.
    I also agree that the state and it's representatives are limited to enumerated powers. That we, the citizens, have allowed the current slide away from that position is another topic altogether.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post



    Not really. "Them" is the state. The state has only those powers we delegate to it. The state has no rights.

    The sovereign individual has the right to do anything unless specifically prohibited by law. The subordinate state has only the powers we specifically delegate to it.
    He speaks the truth.

  21. #21
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    If this is all you have to whine about! then things are looking pretty good.
    This type of thing really makes one look like a crying baby over spilled milk, one round out of the chamber, really!
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    If this is all you have to whine about! then things are looking pretty good.
    This type of thing really makes one look like a crying baby over spilled milk, one round out of the chamber, really!
    Actually, it is more than that.

    Grant County is not following the prescribed procedures spelled out in the RCW's. Checking a weapon in a building not part of the courthouse. Beyond that, they are handling my firearm out of my view to "rendering it safe". It was holstered and perfectly safe without them touching it. Would they be liable for damages? Yes. However, they are introducing the possibility of a negligent discharge by unholstering and handling my firearm.

  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Actually, it is more than that.

    Grant County is not following the prescribed procedures spelled out in the RCW's. Checking a weapon in a building not part of the courthouse. Beyond that, they are handling my firearm out of my view to "rendering it safe". It was holstered and perfectly safe without them touching it. Would they be liable for damages? Yes. However, they are introducing the possibility of a negligent discharge by unholstering and handling my firearm.
    Other then the issue of not checking the firearm with in the same building is pure speculation on your part, where does it prohibit them from unloading the firearm?
    With your position then anytime you handle your firearm to unload or load you are introducing a negligent discharge as well, do not assume they are ignorant of handling firearms safely.
    I do prefer I only handle the firearm but that is not a requirement of the RCW.

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
    Did you get a key after securing the firearm?

    I have yet to have an issue with my firearm being unloaded in the course of checking prior to entering the court areas.

    Last December 2011 I was able to get Yakima County to come into compliance with checking of firearms at the County Jail to include their Video Visiting Center so you are preaching to the choir here when it comes to this topic. Note this was not covered under 9.41.300 but 9.94.043
    Last edited by BigDave; 02-05-2012 at 03:45 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Dave,

    While I don't agree that they should handle the firearm my biggest concern is what happens when I pick up my firearm. The county is not providing a safe area/environment for a citizen to reload and re-holster their firearm.
    Live Free or Die!

  25. #25
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Dave,

    While I don't agree that they should handle the firearm my biggest concern is what happens when I pick up my firearm. The county is not providing a safe area/environment for a citizen to reload and re-holster their firearm.
    There is no argument there Nick, it is an issue of what is required and what they do, unless spelled out in law it is left to interpretation on how the local authorities apply policy.
    Unless one finds an official able to make changes are in your corner likely there will be no advancement in this issue and the likelihood of having a firearms bill changed or added are slim do to the make up in Olympia, maybe someday it will change and my hopes are sooner then later.

    Just pick your battles wisely, picking at the smaller points when larger battles are to be fought, often brings more road blocks.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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