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Thread: stopped by off duty deputy at Wal-Mart

  1. #1
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    stopped by off duty deputy at Wal-Mart

    I was at Wal-Mart in Jackson County WV last night with a friend to pick up some 9mm. I was open carrying my G19 in its holster. We went back to sporting goods where a man with a young boy was talking to the cashier. The cashier stopped to assist me, I purchased my ammo, thanked the man and proceeded to leave when I heard an "excuse me!" I turned around and the man (in civilian clothes) had pulled out his wallet and flashed a badge at me. He wanted to see my concealed weapon permit and some ID. (note: you do not need a permit of any kind to OC in WV)

    Regardless, I complied and gave him my papers. He also wanted me to remove my weapon from his holster. I slowly took it out, dropped the mag and took the round out of the chamber and handed it to him muzzle down and in slide lock. He called it in, ran my info and the serial on the gun. He kept saying how "odd" and "unusual" it was to see someone OC'ing. When he hung up I asked "Are you satisfied?" He said "Yes" and set my weapon on the counter. With his permission I reloaded my weapon and secured it in my holster.

    I started to leave and he said "woah I'm not done with you yet!" I asked if I was being detained, to which he replied "No, I'm still checking you out" I asked again if I was being detained and he said "No" I asked if I was free to go and he again told me "No" I asked to see his badge again so I could get his name. He responded with "You damn sure can!" I can kick myself so hard for being unable to recall the name on the badge, but he was a Jackson County Deputy Sheriff. So I stood there and waited with him, his son, my friend and the cashier in very awkward and uncomfortable silence until his phone rang back and they told him I was indeed a law abiding citizen. I sure didn't feel like one during all this. I felt like I had done something wrong when I had not. It was an awful feeling. He told me I could go and to "stay out of trouble" I gathered my things and we left.


    Is this a normal interaction with LE especially those who are off duty for people who OC? It was my first. I hope it's my last.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    It will take some patience amd practice, my heart was beating like crazy the first time this happened to me. "Am I being detained? No? Well nice seeing you." And walk away. Force him to make the initiative to force you to stay. Otherwise he can claim that you were being consensual in the interaction. Remember, cops are allowed to lie.

    Never do ANYTHING consensually with cops. If you are not required to show ID for something, don't. If he calls it in and your name SOUNDS like someone else with a warrant out on him, they'll take you in and get it sorted out days later while you sit in jail. If he mis reads the serial number on your gun, it might come back as stolen. Again, days in jail till they figure out the mistake.

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    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

  3. #3
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    I get pissed every time I read stories like this in WV.
    Its such a lovely state and full of gun owners.
    We need to get the WV police officers under control.

    How the hell do they nit know by now that OC is legal and is also legal for non WV residents.
    Even though their state gun law pamphlet says OC is not legal for out of stater's.

    This harassment needs to stop. I thin all PD's need to be sent some type of notice that clarifies OC law in WV.
    Enough is enough!
    Last edited by Sig229; 02-03-2012 at 07:23 PM.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  4. #4
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    Purchase and carry a voice recorder and turn it on when you are carrying at all times. Some on here have used their smart phones for that purpose so if yours is capable then learn to use that. Your rights were violated. Just because he has a badge he has no supreme athority to do as he pleases to law abiding citizens. Stand up for your rights or we may soon not have any.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I see that you are fairly new to OCDO. If you read through all the different threads here you will find many LEO encounters just like this or worse. You will also find suggestions on how to handle them and put an end to them. That Deputy Sheriff violated your rights and should be held accountable. If you are not required to have a license to OC why did you show your license to him? This deputy will expect the next guy to comply, just as you did. This will only stop when we demand it stop and refuse to comply with illegal orders. He doesn't get to be "checking out" law abiding citizens. He doesn't get to check you out unless he has some reasonable suspicion you have committed a crime. What crime did he suspect you had committed? He wasn't checking. He was fishing. If you are obeying the law, stand up for your rights or soon none of us will have rights. What's the use of having rights if you just surrender them the first time a LOE asks? Just say,"No".
    While I totally agree with you, gutshot, I think you may be coming across too harsh unintentionally. Lets ease the new guy into things at his comfort level.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Sounds like your rights weren't violated. Sounds like you surrendered them on your own. A pushy cop was successful into intimidating YOU into giving up YOUR rights on YOUR own.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken56 View Post
    Purchase and carry a voice recorder and turn it on when you are carrying at all times. Some on here have used their smart phones for that purpose so if yours is capable then learn to use that. Your rights were violated. Just because he has a badge he has no supreme athority to do as he pleases to law abiding citizens. Stand up for your rights or we may soon not have any.
    Never OC without some kind of recording device ...ever and you will not have this problem without recourse with their PD chief of police . If you dont need to carry your concealed weapon permit leave it in the car for when you do conceal. Am I being detained officer? No...... well nice to meet you but I'm outta here . You don't need to spend time with any of them and be their new best friend. If you had a running recorder you could have recorded the officers name and things would now be very different in your neck of the woods. You can ask for the report as he called it in and go from there.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

  8. #8
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    Speedycat, guess where I live, JACKSON COUNTY WV, we have had 3 guns stolen in the last year off my property, 1 was my sons 1 was mine and 1 was my brother n laws, we happen to live within 150 feet of each other, so we are carrying, 1 of my sons and brother n law are taking thier CC carry class today, i was suppossed to but my wife is in the hospital. I WANT TO OPEN CARRY so do my sons. How does a Mikey D's breakfast sound with some others from our area to disscus laws experiences ect. would love to have a local group here in Jackson county as you know how currupt are police force is. They are a JOKE, and if you describe this guy we may come up with a name, we can visit walmart togather. I want to let are so called cops know we are tired of thier good ole boy polyices and we will excersise our right!!!!

  9. #9
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "Do you have a license for that, I want to see your concealed carry license."

    "Yeah, well I want a pony for my birthday.... so ummm.. what's your point?"
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 02-04-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  10. #10
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    Update from the Sheriff

    I fired an email off to the Sheriff today. I pretty much just pasted what I typed in my OP albeit edited for spelling and grammatical mistakes. I also CC'd the mayor in it. The mayor responded back within 5 minutes of me sending the email. She wanted me to call her ASAP. She was very polite and informed me that the city of Ripley (Wal-mart location) had nothing to do with it and that it was the Sheriff's ball game. I did find it interesting to hear her say "Thank God it wasn't one of our officers!"

    The email I received is as follows:

    "Mr. Speedycat,

    Your email is my first notice of this incident. I believe my Chief Deputy has been made aware of the incident by the officer involved. While I am fully aware of the open carry law in West Virginia, I still find it a little unusual for someone to openly display a weapon in a store such as Wal-Mart. All that aside, I will accept a formal complaint about the incident, and deal with it accordingly, when a formal complaint is made. To do that, I will require that you contact my office, set up an appointment with either my chief deputy or me where we can discuss the incident in detail. If you live outside the county and will be unavailable for further discussion, I’ll accept your email as the formal complaint, and deal with it just as it is written. I do not take this matter lightly, and do not agree with the actions of my officer if they are as detailed in your email. However, I will remain open-minded until I can hear both sides of this story. Please advise what further action you request on my part. Thank You.

    -Jackson County Sheriff"


    I will ask that he accept the email as the complaint. Where this incident took place is a bit of a drive from where I live so scheduling a meeting would be difficult.

    Most of you may have noticed I've been rather quiet in this thread. Since this may very well be a pending legal issue, I have decided it best to keep a low profile and keep my mouth shut. It has a history of getting me into trouble. However, I have been reading each response and have taken most of your advice to heart. I look forward to hearing more as to how I should respond and where I should go from here.







    Quote Originally Posted by eamelhorn View Post
    Speedycat, guess where I live, JACKSON COUNTY WV, we have had 3 guns stolen in the last year off my property, 1 was my sons 1 was mine and 1 was my brother n laws, we happen to live within 150 feet of each other, so we are carrying, 1 of my sons and brother n law are taking thier CC carry class today, i was suppossed to but my wife is in the hospital. I WANT TO OPEN CARRY so do my sons. How does a Mikey D's breakfast sound with some others from our area to disscus laws experiences ect. would love to have a local group here in Jackson county as you know how currupt are police force is. They are a JOKE, and if you describe this guy we may come up with a name, we can visit walmart togather. I want to let are so called cops know we are tired of thier good ole boy polyices and we will excersise our right!!!!


    As mentioned earlier I don't live in Jackson County. While I appreciate you extending an offer to grab a bite to eat and walk around wally world together, I must respectfully decline. Being a full time student and working part time I simply do not have the time. Best of luck to you and your wife!

  11. #11
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    Speedycat, im glad to read your new post, Mrs Rydar is a great lady, she tought all 3 of my children, im happy things has work this well for you. If in Ripley holler. I loved this, it has went along way for us here in Ripley.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Who cares if the Sheriff thinks open carry in a Walmart is unusual? It's 100% legal. I think an off-duty oficer approaching and armed citizen with his young son in tow is unusual. Wonder what the Sheriff has to say about that?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Speedycat, you should post your letter to the Sheriff and his response in your original thread on this topic.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  14. #14
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Who cares if the Sheriff thinks open carry in a Walmart is unusual? It's 100% legal. I think an off-duty oficer approaching and armed citizen with his young son in tow is unusual. Wonder what the Sheriff has to say about that?
    I care, I think that we need to make OC the norm walmart.

  15. #15
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    Notify the WVAGO

    Quote Originally Posted by speedycat View Post
    I fired an email off to the Sheriff today. I pretty much just pasted what I typed in my OP albeit edited for spelling and grammatical mistakes. I also CC'd the mayor in it. The mayor responded back within 5 minutes of me sending the email. She wanted me to call her ASAP. She was very polite and informed me that the city of Ripley (Wal-mart location) had nothing to do with it and that it was the Sheriff's ball game. I did find it interesting to hear her say "Thank God it wasn't one of our officers!"

    The email I received is as follows:

    "Mr. Speedycat,

    Your email is my first notice of this incident. I believe my Chief Deputy has been made aware of the incident by the officer involved. While I am fully aware of the open carry law in West Virginia, I still find it a little unusual for someone to openly display a weapon in a store such as Wal-Mart. All that aside, I will accept a formal complaint about the incident, and deal with it accordingly, when a formal complaint is made. To do that, I will require that you contact my office, set up an appointment with either my chief deputy or me where we can discuss the incident in detail. If you live outside the county and will be unavailable for further discussion, I’ll accept your email as the formal complaint, and deal with it just as it is written. I do not take this matter lightly, and do not agree with the actions of my officer if they are as detailed in your email. However, I will remain open-minded until I can hear both sides of this story. Please advise what further action you request on my part. Thank You.

    -Jackson County Sheriff"


    I will ask that he accept the email as the complaint. Where this incident took place is a bit of a drive from where I live so scheduling a meeting would be difficult.

    Most of you may have noticed I've been rather quiet in this thread. Since this may very well be a pending legal issue, I have decided it best to keep a low profile and keep my mouth shut. It has a history of getting me into trouble. However, I have been reading each response and have taken most of your advice to heart. I look forward to hearing more as to how I should respond and where I should go from here.











    As mentioned earlier I don't live in Jackson County. While I appreciate you extending an offer to grab a bite to eat and walk around wally world together, I must respectfully decline. Being a full time student and working part time I simply do not have the time. Best of luck to you and your wife!
    Be sure to notify the West Virginia Attorney Generals Office as that is who regulates CCW in WV, they NEED these reported.

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedycat View Post
    I fired an email off to the Sheriff today...
    This post was made three months ago. Where do things stand with the OP?

    The demands made by the Sheriff are more about protecting his hindquarters than anything else. "I will require you..." = B.S.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    So, I guess it is the policy for the Jackson County Sheriff's Office to investigate "unusual" events even if that investigation is contrary to the Supreme Court decision in Ohio v Terry and violates the constitutional rights of the citizen being investigated.

    I'd be very careful of using that email as a complaint. Remember, if you do that, what is in that email, and only what is in it will be addressed by the Sheriff. There are probably other details you'd like to include.

    gutshot, why is it that you insist on YELLING? It's very rude.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    ...It was simply in a font that some people find easier to read.
    You can believe what you want, but his posting history says otherwise.
    Last edited by BB62; 05-04-2012 at 02:38 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eamelhorn View Post
    Speedycat, guess where I live, JACKSON COUNTY WV, we have had 3 guns stolen in the last year off my property, 1 was my sons 1 was mine and 1 was my brother n laws, we happen to live within 150 feet of each other, so we are carrying, 1 of my sons and brother n law are taking thier CC carry class today, i was suppossed to but my wife is in the hospital. I WANT TO OPEN CARRY so do my sons. How does a Mikey D's breakfast sound with some others from our area to disscus laws experiences ect. would love to have a local group here in Jackson county as you know how currupt are police force is. They are a JOKE, and if you describe this guy we may come up with a name, we can visit walmart togather. I want to let are so called cops know we are tired of thier good ole boy polyices and we will excersise our right!!!!

    I live down in Hurricane, I'd be willing and probably a couple of my open carry buddies also.

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