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Thread: A little ot Just got my house searched

  1. #1
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    A little ot Just got my house searched

    So I am at work today and my girlfriend calls me to tell me our house is being search for a bg that they believe is in our house. I live in a duplex in Auburn, and our neighbor is the one who is always causing problems. One night her boyfriend was on our roof and almost got shot. Now he is wanted for beating a woman in a gas station parking lot. I told her she needs to lock up the house and stay safe. She is now convinced that I need to carry and we have to have a piece in the house. Boy am I glad I am protected by Glock.

  2. #2
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Get her a holster for the "house piece" and put it on her. A pistol in the bedroom nightstand is near useless if a house invader catches you in between.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Searched?

    With or without the occupant's permission?
    Warrant?
    Exigent Circumstances?

    Incident report and Public Record's Request, STAT.

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Searched?

    With or without the occupant's permission?
    Warrant?
    Exigent Circumstances?

    Incident report and Public Record's Request, STAT.
    Inquiring minds want to know. Including mine.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Searched?

    With or without the occupant's permission?
    Warrant?
    Exigent Circumstances?

    Incident report and Public Record's Request, STAT.
    Where's the warrent?

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Hmm, first report was last night and no new information?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  7. #7
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    Ok so heres what happend. The lady next door her boyfriend was rearended at a gas station and he got out of his car and beat the ladys car with a bat, and then pulled her out of her car and beat her up real good. Now she is in the hospital. Anyways our duplex is the only one on our block and they did not know(so they say) which unit he was supposed to be in. My gf consented to the search so they did their business ans left. SHe did talk to them afterwards, and as it turns out, this is the same guy that was on my roof several months ago that I almost shot for trying to break in. I told her afterwards that if she knows no one is in the house then do not let LE them in. They can suspect all they want. They have no reason to think he is our home.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Well, consensual search (although it might be argued that as she's not the home owner she had no authorization to give permission) so it would appear that without any damage to the premises all you could really hope for is "sorry 'bout that; we'll try not to do that next time it happens."

    You could always try educating her Not to let anyone in the duplex without permission or legal authorization to enter, but .... yeah, we all know where that road leads, I guess.



    Just out of curiosity....
    Did the officers limit their search to places where a fugitive could reasonably be expected to conceal himself?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 02-05-2012 at 08:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by briehl12 View Post
    SNIP I told her afterwards that if she knows no one is in the house then do not let LE them in.
    This can be dangerous. You or your girlfriend might find yourselves charged with obstruction.

    There is an important distinction here. It is one thing to politely, verbally refuse consent. Its something else to not let them in.

    We've all heard of the warrant clause of the 4th Amendment. Much less known outside of lawyers, judges, and cops, is that there are a number of exceptions to the warrant requirement. In fact, there is a whole category of justifications called just that, "warrant exceptions."

    Look up things like "hot pursuit" and "community caretaking."

    If the cop has a warrant exception and you try to keep him out, you might get charged with obstruction. It doesn't matter what you know; what matters is the information the cop has, and whether it counts as a warrant exception.

  10. #10
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    Good point Citizen. I will reword what I told her. Either way our landlord has been notified of the situation and he is looking for a way to get our neighbor out. This mite be the way. I cant wait to move out of Auburn.

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    Goodness that must be one messed up neighbor if he's causing that much trouble with everyone. From what you stated on here I hope too your current neighbor gets forced out of the apartment complex.
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    As soon as I seen this post I knew the flag wavers were going to show up with the same old bs lines.

    She was there by herself, police were looking for someone that just committed a felony assault, had a reasonable belief he may be hiding in the duplex, remember it may not be known to the occupant since it is a duplex (attached and usually has access from the attic).

    For those so worried police might find something illegal, then get rid of it! I would hope those who post here are law abiding but likely there are some who are not.

    As I have said before I have no issues if law enforcement is actively pursuing a criminal then no problem and would prefer they did search the house or car or whatever if I have family members present with out me.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    ...a duplex (attached and usually has access from the attic).

    For those so worried police might find something illegal, then get rid of it! ...
    Your oversimplification of the issue is worse than any of the flag-waving "bs", as you put it.

    All the duplex and multi-units I've seen around here have zero access between the units from the attic. There is usually a firewall that proceeds directly through the attic.

    I don't have anything illegal. I also don't want the police finding the legal things I have. That is my right, and you offend me to imply that searches should be more commonplace because we should have nothing to hide.

    The ONLY thing you said with any weight to it is that the police MAY have "had a reasonable belief he may be hiding in the duplex." Since I wasn't there, nor have heard enough of the details in a clear manner, I can't yet comment on that.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-05-2012 at 11:17 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  14. #14
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Allowing the search is a judgement call on the person present during the search. My question is say NO ONE was home, do the police have the legal ability to break down the door/window and enter your dwelling? This is not hot pursuit this is a search, I have to say that they do NOT. Likewise the homeowner should have the ability to deny them access. This would include telling a non homeowner present to decline to permit a search if he/she/they are not present.

    http://overlawyered.com/2011/12/the-...ou-yes-really/

    If you wish to not permit their entry , you are not assuming any more risk, since they don't have any duty to you as an individual already. I am slowly moving to "it doesn't matter if I have nothing to hide, you should protect any right guaranteed by the constitution, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, whichever."

    That said, I would expect my babysitter to call me or the wife and inform us of the situation and possibly get our permission before allowing it. That would be our call as the property owner. My wife is an adult if she chose to allow it, so be it.

  15. #15
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    Allowing the search is a judgement call on the person present during the search. My question is say NO ONE was home, do the police have the legal ability to break down the door/window and enter your dwelling? This is not hot pursuit this is a search, I have to say that they do NOT. Likewise the homeowner should have the ability to deny them access. This would include telling a non homeowner present to decline to permit a search if he/she/they are not present.

    http://overlawyered.com/2011/12/the-...ou-yes-really/

    If you wish to not permit their entry , you are not assuming any more risk, since they don't have any duty to you as an individual already. I am slowly moving to "it doesn't matter if I have nothing to hide, you should protect any right guaranteed by the constitution, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, whichever."

    That said, I would expect my babysitter to call me or the wife and inform us of the situation and possibly get our permission before allowing it. That would be our call as the property owner. My wife is an adult if she chose to allow it, so be it.
    Yeah no risk, if someone was in there and harmed your family, no, no risk at all.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Hmmm, lets see the possibility of the police finding the person they are searching for versus the certainty that you are allowing someone with no legal duty to protect you into your home and no specific warrant exception to visually search your home. I don't have the cite handy, but if they find something that is illegal and honestly can you be "dead" certain that you are not breaking ANY RCW or local statute?

    Your mileage and choices may vary that is the beauty of the system that we have in place.

  17. #17
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    Hmmm, lets see the possibility of the police finding the person they are searching for versus the certainty that you are allowing someone with no legal duty to protect you into your home and no specific warrant exception to visually search your home. I don't have the cite handy, but if they find something that is illegal and honestly can you be "dead" certain that you are not breaking ANY RCW or local statute?

    Your mileage and choices may vary that is the beauty of the system that we have in place.
    YES I Can Be Sure, You Can't?

    I know it is hard for some to put others before them, I don't have that issue.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    So you have personal knowledge of every local, county, state and federal statute and administrative code for every agency at the local, state and federal level? Along with every court case and common law decision applicable to you and yours? I bow to your photographic memory and ability to have read and understood all that. This also assumes that the LEO searching your home knows what is and what is not Illegal to that degree, which is again an amazing feat, since we have many cases of "open carry " is illegal that we as a group are dealing with or currently discussing. I say we agree to disagree and call it good, I don't see any common ground between our positions.

  19. #19
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    So you have personal knowledge of every local, county, state and federal statute and administrative code for every agency at the local, state and federal level? Along with every court case and common law decision applicable to you and yours? I bow to your photographic memory and ability to have read and understood all that. This also assumes that the LEO searching your home knows what is and what is not Illegal to that degree, which is again an amazing feat, since we have many cases of "open carry " is illegal that we as a group are dealing with or currently discussing. I say we agree to disagree and call it good, I don't see any common ground between our positions.
    How paranoid does one need to be? Everything I have was purchased legally, I do not grow illegal drugs of any type so what laws would one be in violation of? Same old rhetoric of not knowing every law is no more then a scare statement as one only needs to be aware of those that directly effect them and where they are and what they are doing. Do we need to know the federal statutes for possessing uranium? No and it would be stupid to think so.

    I agree we disagree, there is no doubt there on this issue, there really is nothing wrong in making sure your loved ones are safe.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I agree we disagree, there is no doubt there on this issue, there really is nothing wrong in making sure your loved ones are safe.
    Uh thats one of the reasons i carry a firearm and have experience using them. i do not need a government agent to do it for me unless i request said goverment services.


    This was clearly a search, not a persuit and it was a search minus a lawful warrant. i would, instead of giving consent or flat out denying entry. "invite" the LEOs to obtain a search warrant from a judge justifying a search under 4th ammendmant restrictions. failing that i would be under no legal obligation to comply with a search or concent to one.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  21. #21
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    The police are theoretically there to serve the public and to serve me.
    It I don't need them and didn't request them, then there's no service to be rendered. They can mind their own business until they're needed.

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Some people just don't get what the 4th is about. It is not about whether you have something to hide or not. If we don't exercise our rights we loose them, this is true with guns and it is true with all other "inalienable rights".

    Most duplexes don't have access through the attic I have built many in my time there has to be a separation for fire code. And if that was the case go to the guys house and go into his attic.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 02-06-2012 at 09:15 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    So you have personal knowledge of every local, county, state and federal statute and administrative code for every agency at the local, state and federal level? Along with every court case and common law decision applicable to you and yours? I bow to your photographic memory and ability to have read and understood all that. This also assumes that the LEO searching your home knows what is and what is not Illegal to that degree, which is again an amazing feat, since we have many cases of "open carry " is illegal that we as a group are dealing with or currently discussing. I say we agree to disagree and call it good, I don't see any common ground between our positions.
    See I don't see this as paranoia at all just common sense. Folks have no idea of the amount of laws that cover just about everything and then are vaguely worded so as to leave its interpretation up to belligerent cops and prosecutors.

    If rich folks like Mike Milken and Martha Stewart can be set up and prosecuted for non crimes where does that leave the rest of us. The best defense is to never "cooperate" with the state, cops, or other officials unless absolutely required to do so.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    <snip>...there really is nothing wrong in making sure your loved ones are safe.
    Why are your loved ones not equipped and trained to defend themselves as you are? Especially to the point that they need the police to defend them?

    You are ignoring a key idea here. It's not about having something to hide, it's the PRINCIPAL of the thing. The gov't should not be where they have no right to be.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  25. #25
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Why are your loved ones not equipped and trained to defend themselves as you are? Especially to the point that they need the police to defend them?
    You are ignoring a key idea here. It's not about having something to hide, it's the PRINCIPAL of the thing. The gov't should not be where they have no right to be.
    Not Ignoring anything here as it was presented he was not home, she was there alone, she did not have a gun and likely does not shoot one so with this let them check, some are so wound up in this bs of every little thing is a huge violation of ones rights when there none when you invite them in and if you do that is your right of choice to do so.
    Again this was an ongoing search for the criminal that has no issue of busting up cars and women.

    If the context was different then I would have a different position on the issue as I do not open my doors freely with out just cause and that just cause is determined by who, Me!
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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