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A little ot Just got my house searched

briehl12

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
112
Location
Auburn, wa
So I am at work today and my girlfriend calls me to tell me our house is being search for a bg that they believe is in our house. I live in a duplex in Auburn, and our neighbor is the one who is always causing problems. One night her boyfriend was on our roof and almost got shot. Now he is wanted for beating a woman in a gas station parking lot. I told her she needs to lock up the house and stay safe. She is now convinced that I need to carry and we have to have a piece in the house. Boy am I glad I am protected by Glock.
 

FMCDH

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,037
Location
St. Louis, MO
Get her a holster for the "house piece" and put it on her. A pistol in the bedroom nightstand is near useless if a house invader catches you in between.
 

briehl12

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
112
Location
Auburn, wa
Ok so heres what happend. The lady next door her boyfriend was rearended at a gas station and he got out of his car and beat the ladys car with a bat, and then pulled her out of her car and beat her up real good. Now she is in the hospital. Anyways our duplex is the only one on our block and they did not know(so they say) which unit he was supposed to be in. My gf consented to the search so they did their business ans left. SHe did talk to them afterwards, and as it turns out, this is the same guy that was on my roof several months ago that I almost shot for trying to break in. I told her afterwards that if she knows no one is in the house then do not let LE them in. They can suspect all they want. They have no reason to think he is our home.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Well, consensual search (although it might be argued that as she's not the home owner she had no authorization to give permission) so it would appear that without any damage to the premises all you could really hope for is "sorry 'bout that; we'll try not to do that next time it happens."

You could always try educating her Not to let anyone in the duplex without permission or legal authorization to enter, but .... yeah, we all know where that road leads, I guess.



Just out of curiosity....
Did the officers limit their search to places where a fugitive could reasonably be expected to conceal himself?
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP I told her afterwards that if she knows no one is in the house then do not let LE them in.

This can be dangerous. You or your girlfriend might find yourselves charged with obstruction.

There is an important distinction here. It is one thing to politely, verbally refuse consent. Its something else to not let them in.

We've all heard of the warrant clause of the 4th Amendment. Much less known outside of lawyers, judges, and cops, is that there are a number of exceptions to the warrant requirement. In fact, there is a whole category of justifications called just that, "warrant exceptions."

Look up things like "hot pursuit" and "community caretaking."

If the cop has a warrant exception and you try to keep him out, you might get charged with obstruction. It doesn't matter what you know; what matters is the information the cop has, and whether it counts as a warrant exception.
 

briehl12

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
112
Location
Auburn, wa
Good point Citizen. I will reword what I told her. Either way our landlord has been notified of the situation and he is looking for a way to get our neighbor out. This mite be the way. I cant wait to move out of Auburn.
 

DWCook

Activist Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
432
Location
Lenexa, Kansas
Goodness that must be one messed up neighbor if he's causing that much trouble with everyone. From what you stated on here I hope too your current neighbor gets forced out of the apartment complex.
 

BigDave

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Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
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Yakima, Washington, USA
As soon as I seen this post I knew the flag wavers were going to show up with the same old bs lines.

She was there by herself, police were looking for someone that just committed a felony assault, had a reasonable belief he may be hiding in the duplex, remember it may not be known to the occupant since it is a duplex (attached and usually has access from the attic).

For those so worried police might find something illegal, then get rid of it! I would hope those who post here are law abiding but likely there are some who are not.

As I have said before I have no issues if law enforcement is actively pursuing a criminal then no problem and would prefer they did search the house or car or whatever if I have family members present with out me.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...a duplex (attached and usually has access from the attic).

For those so worried police might find something illegal, then get rid of it! ...

Your oversimplification of the issue is worse than any of the flag-waving "bs", as you put it.

All the duplex and multi-units I've seen around here have zero access between the units from the attic. There is usually a firewall that proceeds directly through the attic.

I don't have anything illegal. I also don't want the police finding the legal things I have. That is my right, and you offend me to imply that searches should be more commonplace because we should have nothing to hide.

The ONLY thing you said with any weight to it is that the police MAY have "had a reasonable belief he may be hiding in the duplex." Since I wasn't there, nor have heard enough of the details in a clear manner, I can't yet comment on that.
 
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Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Allowing the search is a judgement call on the person present during the search. My question is say NO ONE was home, do the police have the legal ability to break down the door/window and enter your dwelling? This is not hot pursuit this is a search, I have to say that they do NOT. Likewise the homeowner should have the ability to deny them access. This would include telling a non homeowner present to decline to permit a search if he/she/they are not present.

http://overlawyered.com/2011/12/the-police-have-no-obligation-to-protect-you-yes-really/

If you wish to not permit their entry , you are not assuming any more risk, since they don't have any duty to you as an individual already. I am slowly moving to "it doesn't matter if I have nothing to hide, you should protect any right guaranteed by the constitution, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, whichever."

That said, I would expect my babysitter to call me or the wife and inform us of the situation and possibly get our permission before allowing it. That would be our call as the property owner. My wife is an adult if she chose to allow it, so be it.
 

BigDave

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Nov 22, 2006
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Yakima, Washington, USA
Allowing the search is a judgement call on the person present during the search. My question is say NO ONE was home, do the police have the legal ability to break down the door/window and enter your dwelling? This is not hot pursuit this is a search, I have to say that they do NOT. Likewise the homeowner should have the ability to deny them access. This would include telling a non homeowner present to decline to permit a search if he/she/they are not present.

http://overlawyered.com/2011/12/the-police-have-no-obligation-to-protect-you-yes-really/

If you wish to not permit their entry , you are not assuming any more risk, since they don't have any duty to you as an individual already. I am slowly moving to "it doesn't matter if I have nothing to hide, you should protect any right guaranteed by the constitution, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, whichever."

That said, I would expect my babysitter to call me or the wife and inform us of the situation and possibly get our permission before allowing it. That would be our call as the property owner. My wife is an adult if she chose to allow it, so be it.

Yeah no risk, if someone was in there and harmed your family, no, no risk at all.
 

Vitaeus

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Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Hmmm, lets see the possibility of the police finding the person they are searching for versus the certainty that you are allowing someone with no legal duty to protect you into your home and no specific warrant exception to visually search your home. I don't have the cite handy, but if they find something that is illegal and honestly can you be "dead" certain that you are not breaking ANY RCW or local statute?

Your mileage and choices may vary that is the beauty of the system that we have in place.
 

BigDave

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Nov 22, 2006
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Yakima, Washington, USA
Hmmm, lets see the possibility of the police finding the person they are searching for versus the certainty that you are allowing someone with no legal duty to protect you into your home and no specific warrant exception to visually search your home. I don't have the cite handy, but if they find something that is illegal and honestly can you be "dead" certain that you are not breaking ANY RCW or local statute?

Your mileage and choices may vary that is the beauty of the system that we have in place.

YES I Can Be Sure, You Can't?

I know it is hard for some to put others before them, I don't have that issue.
 

Vitaeus

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May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
So you have personal knowledge of every local, county, state and federal statute and administrative code for every agency at the local, state and federal level? Along with every court case and common law decision applicable to you and yours? I bow to your photographic memory and ability to have read and understood all that. This also assumes that the LEO searching your home knows what is and what is not Illegal to that degree, which is again an amazing feat, since we have many cases of "open carry " is illegal that we as a group are dealing with or currently discussing. I say we agree to disagree and call it good, I don't see any common ground between our positions.
 

BigDave

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Yakima, Washington, USA
So you have personal knowledge of every local, county, state and federal statute and administrative code for every agency at the local, state and federal level? Along with every court case and common law decision applicable to you and yours? I bow to your photographic memory and ability to have read and understood all that. This also assumes that the LEO searching your home knows what is and what is not Illegal to that degree, which is again an amazing feat, since we have many cases of "open carry " is illegal that we as a group are dealing with or currently discussing. I say we agree to disagree and call it good, I don't see any common ground between our positions.

How paranoid does one need to be? Everything I have was purchased legally, I do not grow illegal drugs of any type so what laws would one be in violation of? Same old rhetoric of not knowing every law is no more then a scare statement as one only needs to be aware of those that directly effect them and where they are and what they are doing. Do we need to know the federal statutes for possessing uranium? No and it would be stupid to think so.

I agree we disagree, there is no doubt there on this issue, there really is nothing wrong in making sure your loved ones are safe.
 

Schlepnier

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
420
Location
Yelm, Washington USA
I agree we disagree, there is no doubt there on this issue, there really is nothing wrong in making sure your loved ones are safe.

Uh thats one of the reasons i carry a firearm and have experience using them. i do not need a government agent to do it for me unless i request said goverment services.


This was clearly a search, not a persuit and it was a search minus a lawful warrant. i would, instead of giving consent or flat out denying entry. "invite" the LEOs to obtain a search warrant from a judge justifying a search under 4th ammendmant restrictions. failing that i would be under no legal obligation to comply with a search or concent to one.
 
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