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Thread: 911 IS A JOKE: Detroit citizens no longer rely on police...

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    911 IS A JOKE: Detroit citizens no longer rely on police...

    http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/02...igilantes-1-5/

    911 IS A JOKEDetroit citizens no longer rely on police as self-defense killings skyrocket


    The people of Detroit are taking no prisoners.

    Justifiable homicide in the city shot up 79 percent in 2011 from the previous year, as citizens in the long-suffering city armed themselves and took matters into their own hands. The local rate of self-defense killings now stands 2,200 percent above the national average. Residents, unable to rely on a dwindling police force to keep them safe, are fighting back against the criminal scourge on their own. And they’re offering no apologies.

    “We got to have a little Old West up here in Detroit. That’s what it’s gonna take,” Detroit resident Julia Brown told The Daily.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Glad to see the people of Detroit are starting to wake up...
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Anyone know the stats? Total Detroit Justifiable Homicides in 2010? 2011? National average?

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    Thought it would fit...and if you want a good laugh provided by the numbers of lesser educated individuals here in 'merica, just read the comments. People dont like the video because apparently it was made only to disrespect america after 9/11
    Last edited by Yance; 02-06-2012 at 06:23 PM.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    Anyone know the stats? Total Detroit Justifiable Homicides in 2010? 2011? National average?
    From the article:

    The number of justifiable homicides, in which residents use deadly force in self-defense, jumped from 19 in 2010 to 34 last year — a 79 percent rise — according to newly released city data.
    Not really a statistically significant sample size.





    While I did find the use of the term "vigilantism" annoying and inappropriate, I did appreciate the following bit:

    The Detroit Police Department, grappling with deep funding cuts in a city with a spiraling budget crisis, acknowledges that response times are high and says it is working on a plan to lower them. But a spokeswoman for the department insists the rise in justifiable homicides is unrelated.

    “It’s not about police response time because often the act has already taken place by the time the police are called,” said Sgt. Eren Stephens. She said citizens have a right to defend themselves.

    “Anytime a life is lost, we’re concerned,” she said. “But we can‘t be on every corner in front of every home. And we know that there are citizens who will do what they have to do to protect themselves.”
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-06-2012 at 06:34 PM.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    thanks marshaul

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    Anyone know the stats? Total Detroit Justifiable Homicides in 2010? 2011? National average?
    Charley LeDuff reported this on Fox 2 about 2 weeks ago.I'm sure the numbers I saw would be on the Fox 2 site!
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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    From the article:



    Not really a statistically significant sample size.





    While I did find the use of the term "vigilantism" annoying and inappropriate, I did appreciate the following bit:
    Those words were used by an ex cop(moron)!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Those words were used by an ex cop(moron)!
    Huh?

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Those words were used by an ex cop(moron)!
    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Huh?
    To clarify if I may Mr. Hamaneggs, I think he was saying that the person in question used to be a cop, but has always been a moron
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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    “It’s not about police response time because often the act has already taken place by the time the police are called,” said Sgt. Eren Stephens. She said citizens have a right to defend themselves.

    probably my favorite line, they admit that no matter what, cops will probably already be too late to stop it.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    “It’s not about police response time because often the act has already taken place by the time the police are called,” said Sgt. Eren Stephens. She said citizens have a right to defend themselves.

    probably my favorite line, they admit that no matter what, cops will probably already be too late to stop it.
    Just remember this:

    http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/ka...rotection.html
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin

    When seconds count, the Police are just minutes away !!

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    From the article:



    Not really a statistically significant sample size.





    While I did find the use of the term "vigilantism" annoying and inappropriate, I did appreciate the following bit:
    DPD has a history of terming self defense as "vigilantism". you're right, it's frustrating.
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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post

    Thought it would fit...and if you want a good laugh provided by the numbers of lesser educated individuals here in 'merica, just read the comments. People dont like the video because apparently it was made only to disrespect america after 9/11

    As soon as I saw the title of the thread this popped into my head LOLOL...

    I remember when this came out (WAY before 9/11) because of events in LA and NY that people did NOT like this video.

    Who knew they were on to something?
    Last edited by Stanley; 02-07-2012 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Not really a statistically significant sample size.
    Not to argue, but a small quibble: this isn't a sample, but the actual count. When obtaining a complete count isn't feasible, a sample of the underlying "population" (comprised of those persons relevant to the count) is taken to approximate the whole. When a sample of the count is taken, the size of the sample helps us determine whether or not the sample will provide a reasonable approximation of the whole. Here, we don't have a sample--we have the actual count of the whole--so a determination of the appropriateness of the sample isn't relevant.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoonDog View Post
    Not to argue, but a small quibble: this isn't a sample, but the actual count. When obtaining a complete count isn't feasible, a sample of the underlying "population" (comprised of those persons relevant to the count) is taken to approximate the whole. When a sample of the count is taken, the size of the sample helps us determine whether or not the sample will provide a reasonable approximation of the whole. Here, we don't have a sample--we have the actual count of the whole--so a determination of the appropriateness of the sample isn't relevant.
    No, I believe you're mistaken. Many justifiable self-defense shootings are not reported as such, as the defender is involved in illegal drugs or doesn't trust the police, or doesn't understand his rights in defending himself, or whatever. (Prior crimes do not negate a right to self defense against wholly initiatory aggression, if you accept that it truly is a right. And a dead robber is a dead robber regardless of whether his last victim might have been robbed for his drugs or his wallet.)

    So, the "count" is really nothing more than a sample. It is not the whole picture of self-defense in Detroit. Is it a good sample? No. It is self-selected. Its selection bias is therefore immense. But it is a count of nothing more than the number of times a person has reported shooting in self-defense. The figure in question (79 percent) refers to specifically "justifiable homicides", but the data includes only those reported.

    The set of all justifiable homicides is not a subset of homicides reported to the police as occurring in self-defense. There is an intersection, nothing more.
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-07-2012 at 01:15 PM.

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    Politically, I agree that the definition used for "justifiable homicides" is limited to a subset of all reality. Again, I agree with your political views, and that's why I prefaced my earlier comment as not looking for an argument.

    As a statistician, however, the data collected conform to the definition used and therefore comprise a count, not a sample. The reporting of statistics is always dependent upon the definitions being used...this is a necessary constraint in the language of statistics. The data collected fit the data intended by the definition used. Under this constraint, however, the results reported can ONLY be used to describe the scenario as defined. It does NOT describe the broader definition of "justifiable homicide" that you propose.

    Whether that definition doesn't fit the reality is a separate argument. Perhaps this was your thinking in your original post and although you did not elaborate initially, you have now. If the definition of "justifiable homicides" is altered to include your suggestions (among others), then I would posit (and agree with you) that the existing data does not represent the new definition and data would have to be recollected.

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    this doesn't touch the countless so called drive by shootings that when someone shows up at a hospital because they were shot during an assault or B&E claims they was shot in a drive by to avoid prison time. Most citizens in Detroit will not call the police anymore, because it's pointless, and if they show up to a self defense shooting the often take the victims firearm as evidence and most of the poor people have only one weapon. Many times after the police leave more or other animals return to further victimize the victim. Bet you won't see that reported on the news. I would bet the numbers are staggering if you include the bad guys who got shot and injured during a felony and claimed to be the victim of drive by's.

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