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911 IS A JOKE: Detroit citizens no longer rely on police...

Venator

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http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/02/05/020512-news-detroit-vigilantes-1-5/

911 IS A JOKEDetroit citizens no longer rely on police as self-defense killings skyrocket


The people of Detroit are taking no prisoners.

Justifiable homicide in the city shot up 79 percent in 2011 from the previous year, as citizens in the long-suffering city armed themselves and took matters into their own hands. The local rate of self-defense killings now stands 2,200 percent above the national average. Residents, unable to rely on a dwindling police force to keep them safe, are fighting back against the criminal scourge on their own. And they’re offering no apologies.

“We got to have a little Old West up here in Detroit. That’s what it’s gonna take,” Detroit resident Julia Brown told The Daily.

 

Yance

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[video=youtube;odw_a1ZPS8Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odw_a1ZPS8Y[/video]

Thought it would fit...and if you want a good laugh provided by the numbers of lesser educated individuals here in 'merica, just read the comments. People dont like the video because apparently it was made only to disrespect america after 9/11 :eek::banghead:
 
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marshaul

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Anyone know the stats? Total Detroit Justifiable Homicides in 2010? 2011? National average?

From the article:

The number of justifiable homicides, in which residents use deadly force in self-defense, jumped from 19 in 2010 to 34 last year — a 79 percent rise — according to newly released city data.

Not really a statistically significant sample size.





While I did find the use of the term "vigilantism" annoying and inappropriate, I did appreciate the following bit:

The Detroit Police Department, grappling with deep funding cuts in a city with a spiraling budget crisis, acknowledges that response times are high and says it is working on a plan to lower them. But a spokeswoman for the department insists the rise in justifiable homicides is unrelated.

“It’s not about police response time because often the act has already taken place by the time the police are called,” said Sgt. Eren Stephens. She said citizens have a right to defend themselves.

“Anytime a life is lost, we’re concerned,” she said. “But we can‘t be on every corner in front of every home. And we know that there are citizens who will do what they have to do to protect themselves.”
 
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Haman J.T.

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From the article:



Not really a statistically significant sample size.





While I did find the use of the term "vigilantism" annoying and inappropriate, I did appreciate the following bit:
Those words were used by an ex cop(moron)!
 

lil_freak_66

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“It’s not about police response time because often the act has already taken place by the time the police are called,” said Sgt. Eren Stephens. She said citizens have a right to defend themselves.

probably my favorite line, they admit that no matter what, cops will probably already be too late to stop it.
 

FS23

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Stanley

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Thought it would fit...and if you want a good laugh provided by the numbers of lesser educated individuals here in 'merica, just read the comments. People dont like the video because apparently it was made only to disrespect america after 9/11 :eek::banghead:


As soon as I saw the title of the thread this popped into my head LOLOL...

I remember when this came out (WAY before 9/11) because of events in LA and NY that people did NOT like this video.

Who knew they were on to something? :rolleyes:
 
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CoonDog

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Not really a statistically significant sample size.

Not to argue, but a small quibble: this isn't a sample, but the actual count. When obtaining a complete count isn't feasible, a sample of the underlying "population" (comprised of those persons relevant to the count) is taken to approximate the whole. When a sample of the count is taken, the size of the sample helps us determine whether or not the sample will provide a reasonable approximation of the whole. Here, we don't have a sample--we have the actual count of the whole--so a determination of the appropriateness of the sample isn't relevant.
 

marshaul

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Not to argue, but a small quibble: this isn't a sample, but the actual count. When obtaining a complete count isn't feasible, a sample of the underlying "population" (comprised of those persons relevant to the count) is taken to approximate the whole. When a sample of the count is taken, the size of the sample helps us determine whether or not the sample will provide a reasonable approximation of the whole. Here, we don't have a sample--we have the actual count of the whole--so a determination of the appropriateness of the sample isn't relevant.

No, I believe you're mistaken. Many justifiable self-defense shootings are not reported as such, as the defender is involved in illegal drugs or doesn't trust the police, or doesn't understand his rights in defending himself, or whatever. (Prior crimes do not negate a right to self defense against wholly initiatory aggression, if you accept that it truly is a right. And a dead robber is a dead robber regardless of whether his last victim might have been robbed for his drugs or his wallet.)

So, the "count" is really nothing more than a sample. It is not the whole picture of self-defense in Detroit. Is it a good sample? No. It is self-selected. Its selection bias is therefore immense. But it is a count of nothing more than the number of times a person has reported shooting in self-defense. The figure in question (79 percent) refers to specifically "justifiable homicides", but the data includes only those reported.

The set of all justifiable homicides is not a subset of homicides reported to the police as occurring in self-defense. There is an intersection, nothing more.
 
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CoonDog

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Politically, I agree that the definition used for "justifiable homicides" is limited to a subset of all reality. Again, I agree with your political views, and that's why I prefaced my earlier comment as not looking for an argument.

As a statistician, however, the data collected conform to the definition used and therefore comprise a count, not a sample. The reporting of statistics is always dependent upon the definitions being used...this is a necessary constraint in the language of statistics. The data collected fit the data intended by the definition used. Under this constraint, however, the results reported can ONLY be used to describe the scenario as defined. It does NOT describe the broader definition of "justifiable homicide" that you propose.

Whether that definition doesn't fit the reality is a separate argument. Perhaps this was your thinking in your original post and although you did not elaborate initially, you have now. If the definition of "justifiable homicides" is altered to include your suggestions (among others), then I would posit (and agree with you) that the existing data does not represent the new definition and data would have to be recollected.
 

alphamale

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Michigan
this doesn't touch the countless so called drive by shootings that when someone shows up at a hospital because they were shot during an assault or B&E claims they was shot in a drive by to avoid prison time. Most citizens in Detroit will not call the police anymore, because it's pointless, and if they show up to a self defense shooting the often take the victims firearm as evidence and most of the poor people have only one weapon. Many times after the police leave more or other animals return to further victimize the victim. Bet you won't see that reported on the news. I would bet the numbers are staggering if you include the bad guys who got shot and injured during a felony and claimed to be the victim of drive by's.
 
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