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Thread: Gangbanger Looks Down My .45 Barrel !!!

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    Gangbanger Looks Down My .45 Barrel !!!

    Here we ( I ) go again , * sigh.

    My .45 has been in hibernation in my Bianchi Ranger level I holster for quite some time until this morning.

    It has only seen the range , well if you call the side of a logging road a range about 1x a month, other than that it has not been out of its cage to actually protect and defend in a long long time, other than OC with the usual mix of mild paranoid fearful with a smattering egotistical holier than thou looks from west coast castrated male metrosexuals and female vegan pseudo Buddhists.

    Mostly is gets admired by every day good old boy's with dog collars on who wish they were 'allowed' to carry by their wife but they don't want to clash Cocobolo grips with their 'alpha' wife's brown fake pleather purse , poor guys, they are nice they look normal what with their pick up trucks and NY Giants ball caps, but they all think the Constitution is a old hand written receipt for a Civil war wooden submarine with the same name ! They think the 2nd Amendment is the paragraph preceding the one that says " Lessor will pay $500 a month on said big new diesel truck" at the dealership .

    ( Steve, knock off the lame attempt at home made funny prose and get with the gang banger story pal ) > sorry Mr moderator, lol.

    Digressing: I drive in at 8am to work, park My truck with the BuckOfama bumper stick on it , walk out and turn the corner on foot into the alley to open the big steel commercial door to my office, and immediately notice 3 older teen's on the same alley about a Jr high school field goal kicker distance away.

    I am half way to my door, about 10 yards away from it when teen 1 a female happens to look up from her artistic Sharp-e felt pen graffiti imitation of Picasso to see me intently watching her deface my ground power transformer.

    She goes all 'big eye' on me, and then teen 2 a harmless skinny Beaver Cleaver school book bag of dough nuts sees me and elbow jabs teen 3 to show him the old guy ( me ) watching us .

    Well now teen 3 is a different kind of young mutt, he is a modern day mini M-S 13 wannabe , He is the neighborhood show off , the one who just moved in from the big city , and the other 2 are the nice kids in the apt next door who are impressed with his pachuco mini macho taco honcho act.

    Mini macho is wearing totally different clothes he is all Esay'ed up in typical Los Angeles barrio gang couture , he looks at me, ( stop ) Now I don't give a dam about anything at that moment, I have had no coffee yet , I am all sleep eye and it's 31 degrees, and I think Picasso sucks so I don't want no trouble, but mini macho he wants trouble so he opens with the usual high minded soliloquy in a lame imitation Tony Montana scar face voice " Hey what the F are You looking at" .

    That's it , I have a weakness it is my loaded mouth, I always take the macho bait, * sigh, and so I have just had an adrenaline shot in lieu of my morning cup of Kona with what mutt breath just said to me, so I resort to a typical dumb immature guy and ya I retort with " Your in American now ,we don't piss on lamp post and scribble on walls pal" .

    Sadly mini macho and I are now locked into a battle of inferior ego's , one of us has got to go.

    There is an old Islamic saying that say's " Why do the men go to war, because the women are watching" , and well his woman is watching this and so mini macho has to vanquish me from ' his' alley as he just peed on and marked the transformer box my boss just paid for .

    Mini macho grabs a bandana out of his pocket, puts it around his face in the old cowboy bank robber fashion, ties it off quickly like he has done this before to un-armed old ladies and now walks very fast right to me closing the 25 or so yards quickly at the same time the now Frito bandit-O jams his right hand into his XXL plaid jacket and all my alarms go off !!!

    Funny how fast I can get my Carhart open, and fleece up and 45 out cocked and pointed at the 3rd button on his fake Pendelton it amazed me as if I actually practice > oh ya remember the trips to the logging roads <, those tree stumps are imaginary gang members .

    I am not good at the usual HALT OR I WILL SHOOT, or STOP, or FREEZE , what I am good at is long winded cussing, so I YELLED > One F'ing Move C Sucker And Your Dead, I Don't Give A S**t If You Got A Cell Phone In Your Pocket, Your Dead If You Try To Call Me With It !!!


    Frito the mini bandito does the Fred Flinstone foot screech to a halt, > remember he is pointing an erection in his right pocket at me now at the edge of the 21 foot rule !!!

    I am waitig instantly for his pocket to explode a bullet at me , I am walking sideways just a bit so he would have to re-adjust his pocket gun, he cant see his own gun as it is too close to his body in his pocket so he cant quite adjust his hip site alignment , and seeings how he is not a rocket scientist I know he wont think if this so now I am now a few degrees of axis from his 38 special Ipad pocket projection. I talk some more as morons are easy to fixate with verbal commands they don't multi task the way normal people who 'don't' smoke weed, sniff Testors model glue and drink malt liquor in the morning , and so I have is numb nuts attention, but his pocket still has an erection so I know at least it is not animal it is either veggie or worse mineral !

    We are now at a American -Mexican standoff , I have a 3lb trigger job, its almost freezing out here and I cannot feel my fingers , so I am fully committed , between bellows of frost heave breath I see beaver Cleaver enter the octagon .

    Beaver Cleaver runs up to Frito and grabs him pulling him away and backwards all the while saying, "be cool man no need for that gun", to me.

    Princess Shapie, she scrambles , she is gone in a flash , She ain't got that " I am down for the ghetto" lil sista " Kill him mookie kill the old white guy" , little beotch attitude" , no not at all , she just wants to go back to being 2nd flute and crooked braces in the jr high school band .

    I yell to Beaver, "get him out of here and save his life" !!!

    End Standoff

    The moral of the story is:
    1) Be aware at all times .

    2) Practice all that stuff the Clint Smith talks about.

    3) Shut your dam mouth and don't be a big mouth - little body- big gun idiot like me, as I could very well have been facing down 3 wannabe gangsters with 3 guns , or got a hot one in the stomach from his pocket, or I could have tapped out the BG and had his 2 hostile witnesses against me and be sitting in a homicide detectives interview room drinking Folger's coffee crystals trying to remember what Massad Ayoob said about , about ahhh ahhh I can remember cause I am an idiot !!!
    Last edited by SteveInAshand; 02-07-2012 at 12:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    This isn't the first of your stories I've had to struggle to make sense out of.

    But it does sound like you defeated the Frito Bandito. Good on you.

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    I am new here but...................WHAT...................?

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wow!!!

    It is sooo nice to hear from you again steveinashland,,, its been a long time...

    My question,,, Why not keep them, call for the cops, charge them for the crimes?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Hindsight is 20-20....wudda-shudda-cudda....get a good description and call a cop next time. Glad you were not forced to 'bust a cap'.....homie.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

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  6. #6
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    So you draw to defend a transformer box? Talk about people who should NOT be armed.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    It is sooo nice to hear from you again steveinashland,,, its been a long time...

    My question,,, Why not keep them, call for the cops, charge them for the crimes?
    Well, I didn't handle it 100% properly in 1st place , I should of kept my big mouth shut and just made it to my door and went in and called the cops.

    I have a big mouth and I 'stepped in it' when he challenged me with the hand gestures and the 'watch you lookin at white boy' kind of comment on my property, while they are committing a minor offense, so I was lacking in mature wisdom .

    I also did not want to possibly hurt Beaver Cleaver and Princess felt marker, those two were just decent aimless kids caught up in the cult of personality of the Frito Bandido gang member.

    Ya I know, I cant read the minds of the two other kids and they could have been armed , but I am very very street oriented and can size up people instantly. and even if they were I know I could deal with all three of them.

    If all three of them were gang bangers then I would have dealt with it in a much different way, 1) I dam sure would not be challenging all three of them by making the comments I did back at them, because this is graffiti not a crime against a person , 2) If all three would have done the bandana and or hands pointed in there pockets move this would have turned out MUCH different.

    1 guy cannot or should not contain 3 teens 'unless' they were all three serious felony suspects who are dangerous, and I am backed up into a corner ( I wasn't ) as they will just run and I have no business showing let alone pointing a gun at a girl with a felt tip marker, she needs to be spanked not drawn down on.

    My gun is reserved for direct immanent threats with what I believe ( pointed hand in pocket), or being out numbered by superior force, those three were not superior in force, or being rushed by superior physically fit aggressive person's , or a person with a weapon , a baseball bat sized stick will get you shot if You charge me with it )

    There was an escalation of the threat which I met & checked in order to gain superiority and save my life as he placed a mask ( bandana ) over his face level I, ( no need for a gun ) I should have moved quickly to the door and got inside as this is a steel security door ). Level II, he walked 'very' fast up on me Level II ( no gun out on my part ), Level III he jammed his hand into his large over coat and pointed a hard object thru the coat at me Level III > I draw down.

    Because the gang member was in the mix, that made it very tenuous.

    There are a lot of section 8 welfare apt's behind my shopping center and good kids without fatherly supervision get caught up with bad guys because they all live in these large apartment complexes and this is what I assessed with these three.

    I cold have avoided this , yes I could have. I tend to get very righteously indignant when my property is being vandalized .

    Altho many times it may be un-wise, none the less I believe there is a Castle Doctrine present and I don't have to back out while witnessing a crime on my property or anywere were I am legal to be present ?

    I hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    So you draw to defend a transformer box? Talk about people who should NOT be armed.
    This

    *swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Tagging property aside, would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.

    Clearly he was brandishing or attempting to appear like he was.

    But would they say the OP instigated it?

    ---
    Last edited by Stanley; 02-10-2012 at 10:24 AM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I was amused that the kid took the time to cover his face, after the OP had already seen him.
    Idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley
    would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.
    Having (belatedly) covered his face, approaching aggressively, & at least pretending to have a pocket pistol?
    I'd say it would be perfectly justifiable.

    But would they say the OP instigated it?
    The other kids would, probably.
    Any video would show the wannabe putting on his mask & aggressively approaching the OP.
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    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I was amused that the kid took the time to cover his face, after the OP had already seen him.
    Idiot.


    Having (belatedly) covered his face, approaching aggressively, & at least pretending to have a pocket pistol?
    I'd say it would be perfectly justifiable.


    The other kids would, probably.
    Any video would show the wannabe putting on his mask & aggressively approaching the OP.

    Thanks for the input. My main worry has been that instance where I don't see a gun/knife and what would happen. The problem is TV lol. You always see the LEO shoot the suspect that is holding a cell phone and then the %^& storm that follows.

    I guess part of making the decision to OC is living with it should something unexpected happen.
    Last edited by Stanley; 02-10-2012 at 10:52 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    Tagging property aside, would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.

    Clearly he was brandishing or attempting to appear like he was.

    But would they say the OP instigated it?

    ---
    Hence why it's better to reholster without shooting if the situation allows.

    For instance, in this situation. It was justified to draw which means it was justified to shoot, but drawing draws a lot less scrutiny than shooting does.

    In a reality where you can't assume a jury will always see your perspective, it's good if you can walk away without the potential for months in court.

    I think it's a tad ridiculous that we all agree the OP was justified in drawing, but some folks argue the OP should have fired when the situation was clearly de-escalation as soon as the gun was drawn (the bad guy didn't start shooting).

    I know I said I have no plans to talk to a person on whom I've drawn a gun, but in this circumstance I can understand it.

    Due to his actions, it's perfectly reasonable to assume he has a gun and draw on him. If, however, the bad guy doesn't start shooting by the time you have the gun out, and your draw was slow enough to give him a chance (mine wouldn't be, but that's another story), it's also reasonable to assume that maybe the gunfight you expected to get into isn't going to happen after all. That being the case, better to walk away than have to deal with shooting someone who maybe had nothing more than a hand in his pocket. Legally justified doesn't always convince the "mad mother" on the jury who sees only "unarmed man killed".

    I'm not suggesting anybody ever draw on someone without justification and intent to shoot, and I don't advise giving commands to people threatening your life. But it also bothers me that the poorly-thought-out notion that a gun needs to be fired if it is drawn has been brought up so much in regard to this incident.

    Some may teach that, but most of them are blowhards; none of them are lawyers. There is plenty of room for a gun to be drawn in justification, but not subsequently fired. These nuances matter, IMO. Self-defense isn't always black-and-white, nor straightforward.
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-10-2012 at 10:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    Tagging property aside, would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.

    Clearly he was brandishing or attempting to appear like he was.

    But would they say the OP instigated it?

    ---
    This is going to depend on your state laws. In Oklahoma I have no duty to retreat so long as I'm not the agressor/instagator and the use of lethal force is authorized if I FEEL that death or grave bodily harm are immenient. The fact that they were tagging property, took the time to put the bandana on, and then proceeded to rush the person while at the same time putting their hand into their pocket could easily be used to show that I felt my life was in danger. But excluding how a jury will rule (remember that they are still people and you can't predict how they will rule), you have to remember that one has to look at the facts as they appeared to the shooter at the time of the shooting and not how things look with 20/20 hindsight. And I think a reasonable person would feel sufficently threatened in the outlined situation to shoot under OK laws.

    And while they might try to say the OP instigated it, I think that would be a hard thing to get the jury to bite off on. While he confronted the criminals, he didn't egg them on, he didn't try to conceal his identity, and he didn't rush them. Those were all actions that the perp took.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    WTF....?????? Carrying a firearm is not a joke.... You write about the incident like you think it was funny...?????

    You sir (while carrying) are dangerous both to yourself and others around you.... Or...

    You posted in the wrong forum... Instead of "True Tales Of Self Defense" It should be under "BS Stories Of Self Defense"...

    Snip from the OP...

    I have a weakness it is my loaded mouth, I always take the macho bait, * sigh, and so I have just had an adrenaline shot in lieu of my morning cup of Kona with what mutt breath just said to me, so I resort to a typical dumb immature guy
    And therein ^^^^^^^^^^^ lies the problem....

    More to the point....

    so I resort to a typical dumb immature guy
    ....

    Thank God nobody had to die over you resorting to a typical dumb immature guy...

    YOU SHOULD HAVE WALKED INTO THE BUILDING WITHOUT ANY VERBAL EXCHANGE AND CALLED THE POLICE... IT WAS ONLY GRAFFEITI GODS SAKE.... YOU NEED TO RE-THINK YOUR CARRYING A FIREARM UNTIL YOU ARE ABLE TO NO LONGER ..."RESORT TO A TYPICAL DUMB IMMATURE GUY"...

    Nuff Said..... (Ok not really but I am done here..)

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 02-11-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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    Regular Member .40S&W's Avatar
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    I wish the OP would come back with a follow up.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    WTF....?????? Carrying a firearm is not a joke.... You write about the incident like you think it was funny...?????
    You know, it's entirely possible to sit back and have a laugh about something, no matter how serious or grave that something may have been.

  17. #17
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I loved the little story BTW: I don't think the OP did wrong.

    Couple comments on the comments:

    That the kids go home and blab to their parents that soemone pulled a gun on them?...ain't going to happen, no way. If they did that they would have to explain why they were not in school, why they were vandlizing someones property, why they were with the Frito etc, etc, etc,,,No, telling mama would cause more problems for them...they probably went home to change their diapers.

    Secondly, the OP was at his place of business. Completely legal to "display with intent to intimidate", at least in WA, and I think OR has the same provision.

    Last comment: I also am of the mind that you do not pull your weapon unless you intend to squeeze the trigger...however, if I was in the OP's position, I think I would have hesitated to pull the trigger also. Is it a risk? yes, but how can you verbally beat up the cops for pulling the trigger too quickly if that is eactly what you do????

    As it is, it all worked out ok. I would have liked to know if the freto was actually armed with a firearm though...very possible

  18. #18
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInAshand View Post
    I am not good at the usual HALT OR I WILL SHOOT, or STOP, or FREEZE , what I am good at is long winded cussing, so I YELLED > One F'ing Move C Sucker And Your Dead, I Don't Give A S**t If You Got A Cell Phone In Your Pocket, Your Dead If You Try To Call Me With It !!!
    That is pure comedy gold. I burst out laughing real loud like, thank you. I really, really needed!

  19. #19
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Just as a SWAG, 99% of the little wannabe types will turn and run as soon as they see you are armed and intend to defend yourself. The other 1% will carry through an attack and force you to defend yourself.

    In this particular case, it is a good thing that OP did not shoot for the very simple reason that the other two little angels would have gotten on the witness stand and blamed every bit of it on the OP. In that situation, he most probably would have been found guilty of, at the least, manslaughter.

  20. #20
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    If the OP had shot Frito, hopefully the position of the dead BG or the bloodtrail would show he had been aggressively approaching the shooter.

    Good thing that Frito didn't want an extra hole in his pants, if he WAS pointing a gun at you he sure could have gotten a shot or two off.

    Perhaps for future reference it would be acceptable to get into a draw stance? That way you can signal you're armed without being in that awkward social situation where you've got a gun just hanging there with nothing to do. I've done that once myself when I was a close witness to someone who got all pissed off and "went to his trunk." I simply took cover, put my hand on my sidearm, and ordered him to get away from his vehicle. After a few seconds of motionless study, he decided that I was serious and complied.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    I enjoyed this story. Glad it wasn't me, of course if it was I would have not stared down "frito" but that's just me I'd rather not stick my .45 in anybody's face unless absolutely necessary. Good thing is the wanna be gangbangers will probably think twice next time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Regular Member yz9890's Avatar
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    I also feel there should be 2 decisions made in these types of situations and I suspect most of us would be able to recognize if the threat level changed to the extent that shooting was no longer required. I draw with the intent to fire but I still decide when to fire (if that makes sense). I wouldn't dream of second guessing anyone in this situation though. and just because someone's back is turned on you doesn't mean the threat is over (it just means a bigger pita afterwards).

    this quote from Admiral Woodward comes to mind from his his defense of sinking the Belgrano;

    "The speed and direction of an enemy ship can be irrelevant, because both can change quickly. What counts is his position, his capability and what I believe to be his intention."

  23. #23
    Regular Member yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In civilial self-defense there is a decided advantage to shooting to stop and only esposing that reaction. The result may well be the same, but he intent expressed is totally different and words do have meaning, especially to an overly zealous prosecutor.
    I don't understand what you said here. Could you rephrase it please?

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    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In civilial self-defense there is a decided advantage to shooting to stop and only esposing that reaction. The result may well be the same, but he intent expressed is totally different and words do have meaning, especially to an overly zealous prosecutor.
    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890 View Post
    I don't understand what you said here. Could you rephrase it please?
    Don't say "kill"

    Say "stop". That won't hurt you in court.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't say "kill"

    Say "stop". That won't hurt you in court.
    +1 Anything else is inadvisable.

    Most people, when they say "I shoot to kill!" simply mean that they aren't going to go for the double-femur takedown shot we all practice so much for (see the "Fight" thread).

    How it sounds, though, is like a person who's itching for the opportunity not merely to use a firearm in self-defense, but to explicitly, intentionally kill with it.

    I shoot to stop. As it happens, I don't have particularly strong expectations than my assailant will survive the encounter. Although I might prefer him to survive. But all that is incidental. At the time, the only thing that matters is stopping the threat.

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