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Gangbanger Looks Down My .45 Barrel !!!

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
WTF....?????? Carrying a firearm is not a joke.... You write about the incident like you think it was funny...?????
You know, it's entirely possible to sit back and have a laugh about something, no matter how serious or grave that something may have been.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
I loved the little story BTW: I don't think the OP did wrong.

Couple comments on the comments:

That the kids go home and blab to their parents that soemone pulled a gun on them?...ain't going to happen, no way. If they did that they would have to explain why they were not in school, why they were vandlizing someones property, why they were with the Frito etc, etc, etc,,,No, telling mama would cause more problems for them...they probably went home to change their diapers.

Secondly, the OP was at his place of business. Completely legal to "display with intent to intimidate", at least in WA, and I think OR has the same provision.

Last comment: I also am of the mind that you do not pull your weapon unless you intend to squeeze the trigger...however, if I was in the OP's position, I think I would have hesitated to pull the trigger also. Is it a risk? yes, but how can you verbally beat up the cops for pulling the trigger too quickly if that is eactly what you do????

As it is, it all worked out ok. I would have liked to know if the freto was actually armed with a firearm though...very possible
 

Kirbinator

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
903
Location
Middle of the map, Alabama
As one poster put it... the fact that he took time to stop, put his bandana on and then assume an aggressive stance purporting to have a firearm... would be akin to reaching in the pickup truck, grabbing a scoped rifle, and taking a position against the other person.
 

SteveInAshand

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
267
Location
Ass-land (Ashland) OR, , USA
It is sooo nice to hear from you again steveinashland,,, its been a long time...

My question,,, Why not keep them, call for the cops, charge them for the crimes?

Well, I didn't handle it 100% properly in 1st place , I should of kept my big mouth shut and just made it to my door and went in and called the cops.

I have a big mouth and I 'stepped in it' when he challenged me with the hand gestures and the 'watch you lookin at white boy' kind of comment on my property, while they are committing a minor offense, so I was lacking in mature wisdom .

I also did not want to possibly hurt Beaver Cleaver and Princess felt marker, those two were just decent aimless kids caught up in the cult of personality of the Frito Bandido gang member.

Ya I know, I cant read the minds of the two other kids and they could have been armed , but I am very very street oriented and can size up people instantly. and even if they were I know I could deal with all three of them.

If all three of them were gang bangers then I would have dealt with it in a much different way, 1) I dam sure would not be challenging all three of them by making the comments I did back at them, because this is graffiti not a crime against a person , 2) If all three would have done the bandana and or hands pointed in there pockets move this would have turned out MUCH different.

1 guy cannot or should not contain 3 teens 'unless' they were all three serious felony suspects who are dangerous, and I am backed up into a corner ( I wasn't ) as they will just run and I have no business showing let alone pointing a gun at a girl with a felt tip marker, she needs to be spanked not drawn down on.

My gun is reserved for direct immanent threats with what I believe ( pointed hand in pocket), or being out numbered by superior force, those three were not superior in force, or being rushed by superior physically fit aggressive person's , or a person with a weapon , a baseball bat sized stick will get you shot if You charge me with it )

There was an escalation of the threat which I met & checked in order to gain superiority and save my life as he placed a mask ( bandana ) over his face level I, ( no need for a gun ) I should have moved quickly to the door and got inside as this is a steel security door ). Level II, he walked 'very' fast up on me Level II ( no gun out on my part ), Level III he jammed his hand into his large over coat and pointed a hard object thru the coat at me Level III > I draw down.

Because the gang member was in the mix, that made it very tenuous.

There are a lot of section 8 welfare apt's behind my shopping center and good kids without fatherly supervision get caught up with bad guys because they all live in these large apartment complexes and this is what I assessed with these three.

I cold have avoided this , yes I could have. I tend to get very righteously indignant when my property is being vandalized .

Altho many times it may be un-wise, none the less I believe there is a Castle Doctrine present and I don't have to back out while witnessing a crime on my property or anywere were I am legal to be present ?

I hope this helps
 

SteveInAshand

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
267
Location
Ass-land (Ashland) OR, , USA
I loved the little story BTW: I don't think the OP did wrong.

Couple comments on the comments:

That the kids go home and blab to their parents that soemone pulled a gun on them?...ain't going to happen, no way. If they did that they would have to explain why they were not in school, why they were vandlizing someones property, why they were with the Frito etc, etc, etc,,,No, telling mama would cause more problems for them...they probably went home to change their diapers.

Secondly, the OP was at his place of business. Completely legal to "display with intent to intimidate", at least in WA, and I think OR has the same provision.

Last comment: I also am of the mind that you do not pull your weapon unless you intend to squeeze the trigger...however, if I was in the OP's position, I think I would have hesitated to pull the trigger also. Is it a risk? yes, but how can you verbally beat up the cops for pulling the trigger too quickly if that is eactly what you do????

As it is, it all worked out ok. I would have liked to know if the freto was actually armed with a firearm though...very possible

Do you know that this ran through my mind in a flash > If this guy is not armed and I tap him out, then the two Caucasian teens will be witnesses against me saying something like > " he shot him because he was Hispanic" , or " He just shot him, just killed him for no reason" , this flashed instantly through my mind.

My only evidentery witness verifying to the facts on my side would be the bandana wrapped around the face of the decadent , if that bandana was not present then I would be in hot water if those kids acted as false witnesses against me.
 
Last edited:

SteveInAshand

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
267
Location
Ass-land (Ashland) OR, , USA
There was quite a bit of fluff to read through, but from what I understand, he drew down on the Frito Bandito because Frito approached him aggressively then reached into his pocket, as if reaching for a weapon. In that situation, you wouldn't do the same?

remember he put a bandana ( mask ) on.

He then aggressively and swiftly moved on me, closing the distance very very fast .

By aggressively I mean walked just under running speed all the while jamming his hand into his coat pocket 'pushing' out a hard object either a real gun or something meant to simulate the barrel of a gun.
 

SteveInAshand

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
267
Location
Ass-land (Ashland) OR, , USA
I wanna know how the police reacted after he called them to notifiy about the assault on him by the gang (wannabe?) members. You did call the authorities after pulling your defense weapon?

Nope , I didn't. My mindset is skewed as I was raised in nasty south Los Angeles the 1st 20+ years, then in nasty south San Diego, this has been a very common type of occurrence over 48 years.

I don't think much of it after it is over, no shakes not hyper ventilating, Nada. This was minor in my life dealing with BG's,I just shrug it off.

This does not mean I am very concerned, as there is also the very eminent possibility that of reprisal.

I am very open and exposed were I work.

The shopping center I manage is were all the poor and yes gang banger and tough guy loser types come to shop at the Dollar / 99cent type of stores here.

This is a BIG shopping center, everyone good / bad or different knows me and knows I am the Mr big mouth older - wannabe Mr Tuff Guy who carries a 1911.

Even tho I am not intimidating ( You aint never gonna see me in the UFC, lol ) every one knows I don't take s**t > " if I am right I'm in the fight" .

I am somewhat of a peace loving weak puss, but things magically change when I am morally or legally right then there is not stopping me, God has my back.

I am very exposed out here in a super busy parking lot and super busy walk ways, and so if You want to shoot me or do me harm in reprisal for getting Your Homie busted it would not be very hard to do a drive by on me , or walk up behind me and blast me with a base ball bat.

I don't remember if I mentioned but I put my Level III-A vest on under my sweater for the next couple days after that.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
No harm, no foul, and a learning experience in my opinion ;)

This is one of those situations where we (good, freedom loving, law-abiding citizens) have a hard time just ignoring the criminals. Should Steve have challenged them? Probably not and he knows it. Would I have been irked by these idiots and their total lack of respect for others property and the law? Absolutely! It's easy to sit back and Keyboard-Kommando to death something that someone else had to contend with isn't it? That is, until you find yourself in a similar situation. :eek:

Glad nobody got hurt Steve :) .Carry On.
 

Ruby

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
1,201
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
The first rule of self defense

I have not posted in a while (computer problems) but I did want to respond to this thread. I am in no way criticizing the OP; I wasn't there.

IIRC, the very first rule of self defense taught by any credible instructor is AVOIDANCE. If you can possibly avoid a confrontation, do; it's much heathier and you have a better chance of living to a ripe old age. The OP could have avoided this entire situation by simply ignoring Frito Bandito, walked to his office door, unlocked it and entered, and locked it behind him. Then he could have called the police and reported what he had seen. I would be willing to bet that if the OP had been UNARMED, that's exactly what he would have done. Which brings me to another thought that is related: How many times to we, as legally armed citizens, rise to the bait, go into situations that are somewhat dicey, etc. simply because we are armed? The very first thing that needs to be engaged is one's brain! One's gun is supposed to be the last resort, not the first. I'll be the first to admit that there are situations where your firearm may be the ONLY resort. But I think that too many times people resort to their weapon before they have engaged their brain.

Case in point: I had a situation on Thursday at the Renton Transit Center. I had gotten there early and had bought a breakfast sandwich to eat while I was waiting for my bus. I was not carrying because I had to go to a Federal office (Social Security). Two black guys approached me and asked why I didn't bring them some (they were teasing, I think) and I just said (with a smile) they would have to get their own. To which one guy replied they didn't have any money. I just said I was sorry about that. They, especially one of them, were being a general nuisance to everyone waiting. The one guy was also rude and used profanity to the bus driver. He became upset when she didn't open the door of the bus when he thought she should. He began banging on the closed bus door. She just ignored him. I very nicely told him it was her bus and she would open the door when it was time. He became very upset with me and told me I better not get on the bus, that I should go on down the road and catch another bus. I did not reply to him, I could see where we were headed and I didn't want to go there. When we got on the bus, he was complaining to the bus driver about the time and then he accused me, pointing at me that I had called him the N word, which wasn't true of course. Race never entered into it. I told the bus driver that that wasn't true and THEN I SHUT UP. The lesson I learned was, don't EVER expect the person you are engaged with to be truthful. When you can clearly see that continuing to talk to a person only escalates the situation, shut up! Both guys eventually got off the bus and I got to my destination safely. I could have continued to argue and escalate it, but for what? I wouldn't have changed his mind and he could have decided to do some harm to me.

Too many posters on this thread and others are all too eager to use their weapons on someone that they deem deserves it or is a POS. I would think very carefully about this for two reasons: even a justified self defense shooting will change your life in ways you cannot imagine, cost you money you may not have, etc. Baretta Lady can testify to that. You may lose your job, the respect of your peers, etc. EVEN IF it was a justified shooting. Your life will never be the same. Be sure there is no other alternative. ALL of your posts on this forum can and will be supoened and used by the prosecutor to paint you as a blood thirsty murderer. You might want to give some thought as to which thoughts you want to make public.

Have a good day and stay safe!
 

The Airframer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Messages
171
Location
Virginia Beach
I am walking sideways just a bit so he would have to re-adjust his pocket gun, he cant see his own gun as it is too close to his body in his pocket so he cant quite adjust his hip site alignment , and seeings how he is not a rocket scientist I know he wont think if this so now I am now a few degrees of axis from his 38 special Ipad pocket projection.

If you truly thought drawing your gun was justified, el bananna was the gang member/vadalistic criminal you portrayed him as, and thought he actually had a firearm in his "pocket erection" then why didn't you keep on side stepping into cover, and immediately call the police to disarm this criminal. If he was in fact this criminal monster you painted for us, then he certainly had no legal business carrying concealed or not (imaginary or real). By not calling the police, you admitted that your actions weren't legally comfortable with yourself because of your own doubts in justification and you allowed a potentially illegally armed gang affiliated moron out of your sights. If you are not 100% comfortable with when it is justified to resort to deadly force then you lack the responsibility to carry and should trade in your guns for a typewritter. You seem to be a better writer than bearer of arms.
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
Too many posters on this thread and others are all too eager to use their weapons on someone that they deem deserves it or is a POS. I would think very carefully about this for two reasons: even a justified self defense shooting will change your life in ways you cannot imagine, cost you money you may not have, etc. Your life will never be the same. Be sure there is no other alternative.

Amen to that!
When the shooting starts, it means all other options have failed.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Ruby

Too many posters on this thread and others are all too eager to use their weapons on someone that they deem deserves it or is a POS. I would think very carefully about this for two reasons: even a justified self defense shooting will change your life in ways you cannot imagine, cost you money you may not have, etc. Your life will never be the same. Be sure there is no other alternative.

I disagree somewhat - you imply that there are a large number of posters/members here that act and talk irresponsibly regarding the use of their defensive tools. By and large we are very responsible, cautious and hopeful that we shall never have to take action even remotely resembling what you suggest. There may be a few of the other type, but they do not generally last long.

Where someone does stray into that arena, there will always be someone else that will correct the record - just as I intend here. :D

To your credit, you would seem to recognize the obvious error inherent in such overtly aggressive postings.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Wowwie!!!!

He began banging on the closed bus door. She just ignored him. I very nicely told him it was her bus and she would open the door when it was time. He became very upset with me and told me I better not get on the bus, that I should go on down the road and catch another bus. I did not reply to him, I could see where we were headed and I didn't want to go there. When we got on the bus, he was complaining to the bus driver about the time and then he accused me, pointing at me that I had called him the N word, which wasn't true of course. Race never entered into it. I told the bus driver that that wasn't true and THEN I SHUT UP. The lesson I learned was, don't EVER expect the person you are engaged with to be truthful.


So, you, a law abiding citizen, dissarmed, in a place where a law abiding citizen should be armed.
Minding your business, in a place where thugish people congragate, are accosted by a thugish person,
who is acting thugish to you and the bus driver and anybody else who is around.

SOOOO! this thugish person THREATENS YOU,,,,, AND THEN,,,,
this fool,,, pulls the RACE CARD,,,
TATTLES on you to the bus driver,,,
and LIES,,, saying that you had called him the "N" word!!!!

OH MY!!!!


-- Moderator deleted comments not compatable with site standards --
 

Ruby

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
1,201
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
So, you, a law abiding citizen, dissarmed, in a place where a law abiding citizen should be armed.
Minding your business, in a place where thugish people congragate, are accosted by a thugish person,
who is acting thugish to you and the bus driver and anybody else who is around.

SOOOO! this thugish person THREATENS YOU,,,,, AND THEN,,,,
this fool,,, pulls the RACE CARD,,,
TATTLES on you to the bus driver,,,
and LIES,,, saying that you had called him the "N" word!!!!

OH MY!!!!


-- Moderator deleted comments not compatable with site standards --

To me, race was not the issue, I would have reacted the same had this person been white, Hispanic, or purple. A thug is a thug is a thug. He was definitely all of what you called him. I would have reacted the same had I been armed, believe it or not. I have no desire to shoot anyone unless I had no other choice. I sensed that he was all bravado and wanted attention, which he got. Someday he will bark up the wrong tree and someone will take care of him, but it didn't need to be me.

My point was we need to rely on our brains first and our guns when all other options have failed. I am rarely at a transit center unarmed, but since I had to go to a Federal office, I felt that I really didn't have a choice. I have witnessed a couple of assaults at the Burien transit center and I am always armed there.

One of my supervisors at Lowe's had some questions about me carrying a gun and we had a very good discussion in the break room about it with other people listening and chiming in. I dispelled some myths she had about guns and the people who carry them and I think I left some people with a more positive attitude than before. So it goes...........we try to educate people when we can.

Thanks for your input and support, I appreciate it!
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
I have not posted in a while (computer problems) but I did want to respond to this thread. I am in no way criticizing the OP; I wasn't there.

IIRC, the very first rule of self defense taught by any credible instructor is AVOIDANCE. If you can possibly avoid a confrontation, do; it's much heathier and you have a better chance of living to a ripe old age. The OP could have avoided this entire situation by simply ignoring Frito Bandito, walked to his office door, unlocked it and entered, and locked it behind him. Then he could have called the police and reported what he had seen. I would be willing to bet that if the OP had been UNARMED, that's exactly what he would have done. Which brings me to another thought that is related: How many times to we, as legally armed citizens, rise to the bait, go into situations that are somewhat dicey, etc. simply because we are armed? The very first thing that needs to be engaged is one's brain! One's gun is supposed to be the last resort, not the first. I'll be the first to admit that there are situations where your firearm may be the ONLY resort. But I think that too many times people resort to their weapon before they have engaged their brain.

Case in point: I had a situation on Thursday at the Renton Transit Center. I had gotten there early and had bought a breakfast sandwich to eat while I was waiting for my bus. I was not carrying because I had to go to a Federal office (Social Security). Two black guys approached me and asked why I didn't bring them some (they were teasing, I think) and I just said (with a smile) they would have to get their own. To which one guy replied they didn't have any money. I just said I was sorry about that. They, especially one of them, were being a general nuisance to everyone waiting. The one guy was also rude and used profanity to the bus driver. He became upset when she didn't open the door of the bus when he thought she should. He began banging on the closed bus door. She just ignored him. I very nicely told him it was her bus and she would open the door when it was time. He became very upset with me and told me I better not get on the bus, that I should go on down the road and catch another bus. I did not reply to him, I could see where we were headed and I didn't want to go there. When we got on the bus, he was complaining to the bus driver about the time and then he accused me, pointing at me that I had called him the N word, which wasn't true of course. Race never entered into it. I told the bus driver that that wasn't true and THEN I SHUT UP. The lesson I learned was, don't EVER expect the person you are engaged with to be truthful. When you can clearly see that continuing to talk to a person only escalates the situation, shut up! Both guys eventually got off the bus and I got to my destination safely. I could have continued to argue and escalate it, but for what? I wouldn't have changed his mind and he could have decided to do some harm to me.

Too many posters on this thread and others are all too eager to use their weapons on someone that they deem deserves it or is a POS. I would think very carefully about this for two reasons: even a justified self defense shooting will change your life in ways you cannot imagine, cost you money you may not have, etc. Baretta Lady can testify to that. You may lose your job, the respect of your peers, etc. EVEN IF it was a justified shooting. Your life will never be the same. Be sure there is no other alternative. ALL of your posts on this forum can and will be supoened and used by the prosecutor to paint you as a blood thirsty murderer. You might want to give some thought as to which thoughts you want to make public.

Have a good day and stay safe!


Ding Ding Ding..... We have a winner...

Outdoorsman1
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
So.....

I know the OP, the location of the incident, the general area and attitude of the city and police.

While the way he wrote it up is up to discussion as to your PERSONAL tastes, the OP's actions were COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. In fact, had he fired, that too would have been JUSTIFIED. That the OP mentions the "21 foot rule" shows that he has some knowlege of the legal requirements for employing deadly force. However, that is only applicable to KNIFE wielding attackers who are charging you (and is properly called the "Tueller Drill"). With a BG that is charging with a hand in his pocket and a protrusion in your direction, the Tueller Drills 21 foot rule is no longer in play. Whether the attacker (for it is an attack the moment he began the charge) is bluffing or not is not relevant. The only thing relevant is whether you (and the mythical "reasonable person") believe you are under threat of loss of life or great bodily harm! I'm pretty sure no one will try to say he was just gonna hug the OP when he got to him...well except his mommie and the two wannabe thugs with him.

Those of you who are criticizing him for not "de escalating" are, like it or not, a very large part of the problem we have in this country. Namely that the good guy has to back down, run away, call mommie (i.e. the police) and let the bad guys continue to do bad things. BULL. When you encounter people defacing your property you DO ENGAGE them. You tell them to stop and get the H out. THAT is the PROPER reaction of a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

WHen one of them chooses to put on a mask and charge you HE has chosen to escalate the situation into one in which you are now required to draw your weapon in order to protect yourself.

This incident happened in Oregon. While we don't have "stand your ground" or "Castle Doctrine" laws on the books, we are VERY pro gun except in the major metro (Portland) and some other large cities up North (highly infested with Taxifornians). While there is no way to know how things might have gone had the OP fired to stop the threat to him, he was where he belonged, the BG's were committing crime against the property he is hired to watch over, and most likely it would have been ruled a "clean shoot" in this jurisdiction.

BAD ON ALL OF YOU that are saying "run away" and let the heathens deface the property. There simply was no opportunity to "run away" once the BG decided to escalate his actions from stupid to deadly.

Now, should we confront all BG's? Certainly not. But three kids playing "tag" in the alley where you work with no visible weapons or reasonably visible threat...YES you confront them. Just as you would a kid throwing eggs or rocks at your house or any of a number of other stupid things kids do.

SHEEEESH
 

Ruby

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
1,201
Location
Renton, Washington, USA
So.....

I know the OP, the location of the incident, the general area and attitude of the city and police.

While the way he wrote it up is up to discussion as to your PERSONAL tastes, the OP's actions were COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. In fact, had he fired, that too would have been JUSTIFIED. That the OP mentions the "21 foot rule" shows that he has some knowlege of the legal requirements for employing deadly force. However, that is only applicable to KNIFE wielding attackers who are charging you (and is properly called the "Tueller Drill"). With a BG that is charging with a hand in his pocket and a protrusion in your direction, the Tueller Drills 21 foot rule is no longer in play. Whether the attacker (for it is an attack the moment he began the charge) is bluffing or not is not relevant. The only thing relevant is whether you (and the mythical "reasonable person") believe you are under threat of loss of life or great bodily harm! I'm pretty sure no one will try to say he was just gonna hug the OP when he got to him...well except his mommie and the two wannabe thugs with him.

Those of you who are criticizing him for not "de escalating" are, like it or not, a very large part of the problem we have in this country. Namely that the good guy has to back down, run away, call mommie (i.e. the police) and let the bad guys continue to do bad things. BULL. When you encounter people defacing your property you DO ENGAGE them. You tell them to stop and get the H out. THAT is the PROPER reaction of a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

WHen one of them chooses to put on a mask and charge you HE has chosen to escalate the situation into one in which you are now required to draw your weapon in order to protect yourself.

This incident happened in Oregon. While we don't have "stand your ground" or "Castle Doctrine" laws on the books, we are VERY pro gun except in the major metro (Portland) and some other large cities up North (highly infested with Taxifornians). While there is no way to know how things might have gone had the OP fired to stop the threat to him, he was where he belonged, the BG's were committing crime against the property he is hired to watch over, and most likely it would have been ruled a "clean shoot" in this jurisdiction.

BAD ON ALL OF YOU that are saying "run away" and let the heathens deface the property. There simply was no opportunity to "run away" once the BG decided to escalate his actions from stupid to deadly.

Now, should we confront all BG's? Certainly not. But three kids playing "tag" in the alley where you work with no visible weapons or reasonably visible threat...YES you confront them. Just as you would a kid throwing eggs or rocks at your house or any of a number of other stupid things kids do.

SHEEEESH

I didn't say run away and do nothing. The OP took one hell of a chance and could have lost his life if Frito Bandito really did have a gun and decided to use it. Is graffiti or whatever on someone's property worth your life?!? I would have got to cover first, then called the police. It is not my, or any other civilian carrying a gun, job to go out and round up the bad guys. If I wanted to do that, I would have become a police officer. The only exception to that is if someone's life is at stake and you have a chance to save that life. Even that can be iffy.

The OP said himself that he is known around there to be a "tuff guy who carries a 1911." Sounds like bluster and bravado to me; he obviously wants attention and found a way to get it. Ego and being "tuff" should be NO part of carrying a weapon.
Guys who think that carrying a gun makes them "tuff" will eventually run into someone who will clean their clock, so to speak. If carrying a gun is an ego boost for you, leave it at home until you can carry with the proper attitude towards it, which is a responsible respect for your weapon and other people.
:banghead:
And you are wrong about the 21 ft. rule; that applies to ANY weapon and has been increased to 28 ft.
 
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