• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Gangbanger Looks Down My .45 Barrel !!!

Brion

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
160
Location
Goldsboro, NC
I'll take the OP side on this. I grew up around trash like that, and every one of them has either a knife, or a gun. And lets say this guy doesn't have either, based on the way he was approaching, he was commited to some form of attack.

Second point, the OP did NOT initiate conversation. Chachi did, with his "WTF you looking at?"

Lastly, if someone was defacing my property, or the property I work at, i'm going to engage weather it be sitting and watching or speaking up.

Sheep, and people that believe that you shouldn't take care of your own problems and have someone els do it say things like "get a good description and call the police."

EF that, I take care of my own and what's mine. I'm not gonna let some gangsta write all over my walls, hide in my house and call the police with the tattle tale voice "HALP, he's painting on my walls."



This is America and what's mine is mine, leave it alone, and if standing up for what's mine causes this guy to get uppity, pulling a gun because there is no telling what he's got is totally legit.
 

Brion

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
160
Location
Goldsboro, NC
I think that's a very rational way to handle it. BUT, I don't think I would say a word to them because you are warning them. I would take some photos, though.

What about using a de-escaltion tactic? "Come on guys, you don't want to be doing that, can you just hang out elsewhere?" Unfortunately, for wannabes, this might embolden them. Sometimes you have to scare them.

Dude, seriously?

I see the nerdy little fat kid trying to keep his friends out of trouble whining that. They were not hanging out. They were vandalizing his bosses property.

I park my car, see gangsta'z drawing on my walls.
My response: WTF do you think you're doing.

a) they run away.
b) read the OP story again.
 

HKcarrier

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
816
Location
michigan
I think that's a very rational way to handle it. BUT, I don't think I would say a word to them because you are warning them. I would take some photos, though.

What about using a de-escaltion tactic? "Come on guys, you don't want to be doing that, can you just hang out elsewhere?" Unfortunately, for wannabes, this might embolden them. Sometimes you have to scare them.


I didn't necessarily mean I would be as wordy as the OP... I might actually make more noise than the OP... just not with my mouth.


As far as the de-escalating, I think the comment of 3 kids about to get the police called was being nice enough.... the alternative is wtf do you think you're doing and you better gtfo of here before I call the cops.


I'm not going to pander to punk criminal kids... "cant we just get along"... NO, we can't cause a-holes are defacing my property.
 

Stanley

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
375
Location
Reston, VA
Tagging property aside, would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.

Clearly he was brandishing or attempting to appear like he was.

But would they say the OP instigated it?

---
 
Last edited:

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
I was amused that the kid took the time to cover his face, after the OP had already seen him.
Idiot.

Stanley said:
would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.
Having (belatedly) covered his face, approaching aggressively, & at least pretending to have a pocket pistol?
I'd say it would be perfectly justifiable.

But would they say the OP instigated it?
The other kids would, probably.
Any video would show the wannabe putting on his mask & aggressively approaching the OP.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Tagging property aside, would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.

Clearly he was brandishing or attempting to appear like he was.

But would they say the OP instigated it?

---

Hence why it's better to reholster without shooting if the situation allows.

For instance, in this situation. It was justified to draw which means it was justified to shoot, but drawing draws a lot less scrutiny than shooting does.

In a reality where you can't assume a jury will always see your perspective, it's good if you can walk away without the potential for months in court.

I think it's a tad ridiculous that we all agree the OP was justified in drawing, but some folks argue the OP should have fired when the situation was clearly de-escalation as soon as the gun was drawn (the bad guy didn't start shooting).

I know I said I have no plans to talk to a person on whom I've drawn a gun, but in this circumstance I can understand it.

Due to his actions, it's perfectly reasonable to assume he has a gun and draw on him. If, however, the bad guy doesn't start shooting by the time you have the gun out, and your draw was slow enough to give him a chance (mine wouldn't be, but that's another story), it's also reasonable to assume that maybe the gunfight you expected to get into isn't going to happen after all. That being the case, better to walk away than have to deal with shooting someone who maybe had nothing more than a hand in his pocket. Legally justified doesn't always convince the "mad mother" on the jury who sees only "unarmed man killed".

I'm not suggesting anybody ever draw on someone without justification and intent to shoot, and I don't advise giving commands to people threatening your life. But it also bothers me that the poorly-thought-out notion that a gun needs to be fired if it is drawn has been brought up so much in regard to this incident.

Some may teach that, but most of them are blowhards; none of them are lawyers. There is plenty of room for a gun to be drawn in justification, but not subsequently fired. These nuances matter, IMO. Self-defense isn't always black-and-white, nor straightforward.
 
Last edited:

Stanley

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
375
Location
Reston, VA
I was amused that the kid took the time to cover his face, after the OP had already seen him.
Idiot.


Having (belatedly) covered his face, approaching aggressively, & at least pretending to have a pocket pistol?
I'd say it would be perfectly justifiable.


The other kids would, probably.
Any video would show the wannabe putting on his mask & aggressively approaching the OP.


Thanks for the input. My main worry has been that instance where I don't see a gun/knife and what would happen. The problem is TV lol. You always see the LEO shoot the suspect that is holding a cell phone and then the %^& storm that follows.

I guess part of making the decision to OC is living with it should something unexpected happen.
 
Last edited:

bomber

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
499
Location
, ,
more quarterbacks in this thread than you could find in a sportsbar on game night.

you guys never quit do you?
 

Jack House

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
I am not good at the usual HALT OR I WILL SHOOT, or STOP, or FREEZE , what I am good at is long winded cussing, so I YELLED > One F'ing Move C Sucker And Your Dead, I Don't Give A S**t If You Got A Cell Phone In Your Pocket, Your Dead If You Try To Call Me With It !!!
That is pure comedy gold. I burst out laughing real loud like, thank you. I really, really needed!:lol:
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
Just as a SWAG, 99% of the little wannabe types will turn and run as soon as they see you are armed and intend to defend yourself. The other 1% will carry through an attack and force you to defend yourself.

In this particular case, it is a good thing that OP did not shoot for the very simple reason that the other two little angels would have gotten on the witness stand and blamed every bit of it on the OP. In that situation, he most probably would have been found guilty of, at the least, manslaughter.
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
If the OP had shot Frito, hopefully the position of the dead BG or the bloodtrail would show he had been aggressively approaching the shooter.

Good thing that Frito didn't want an extra hole in his pants, if he WAS pointing a gun at you he sure could have gotten a shot or two off.

Perhaps for future reference it would be acceptable to get into a draw stance? That way you can signal you're armed without being in that awkward social situation where you've got a gun just hanging there with nothing to do. I've done that once myself when I was a close witness to someone who got all pissed off and "went to his trunk." I simply took cover, put my hand on my sidearm, and ordered him to get away from his vehicle. After a few seconds of motionless study, he decided that I was serious and complied.
 

rscottie

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
608
Location
Ashland, Kentucky, USA
No, he initiated contact, stood there while the guy put his bandanna on and spoke to him harshly. He failed to follow the 'don't go stupid places where there are stupid people' rule.

I seen no issue as where the OP was as he was in the alley where the entrance door to the business at which he worked was located. He was not out for a stroll looking for trouble.

He also did not initiate. He looked in the direction of the ones tagging his transformer and they took offense. Situational awareness would dictate that he be looking.

I am not sure what you are saying what the OP options were. Should he not go to work? Should he not look down the alley that he must enter his place of work from?
 
Last edited:

Jeremiah45

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Florida
I enjoyed this story. Glad it wasn't me, of course if it was I would have not stared down "frito" but that's just me I'd rather not stick my .45 in anybody's face unless absolutely necessary. Good thing is the wanna be gangbangers will probably think twice next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Aknazer

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
1,760
Location
California
Tagging property aside, would actually shooting that kid have been defendable in that situation.

Clearly he was brandishing or attempting to appear like he was.

But would they say the OP instigated it?

---

This is going to depend on your state laws. In Oklahoma I have no duty to retreat so long as I'm not the agressor/instagator and the use of lethal force is authorized if I FEEL that death or grave bodily harm are immenient. The fact that they were tagging property, took the time to put the bandana on, and then proceeded to rush the person while at the same time putting their hand into their pocket could easily be used to show that I felt my life was in danger. But excluding how a jury will rule (remember that they are still people and you can't predict how they will rule), you have to remember that one has to look at the facts as they appeared to the shooter at the time of the shooting and not how things look with 20/20 hindsight. And I think a reasonable person would feel sufficently threatened in the outlined situation to shoot under OK laws.

And while they might try to say the OP instigated it, I think that would be a hard thing to get the jury to bite off on. While he confronted the criminals, he didn't egg them on, he didn't try to conceal his identity, and he didn't rush them. Those were all actions that the perp took.
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
WTF....?????? Carrying a firearm is not a joke.... You write about the incident like you think it was funny...?????

You sir (while carrying) are dangerous both to yourself and others around you.... Or...

You posted in the wrong forum... Instead of "True Tales Of Self Defense" It should be under "BS Stories Of Self Defense"...

Snip from the OP...

I have a weakness it is my loaded mouth, I always take the macho bait, * sigh, and so I have just had an adrenaline shot in lieu of my morning cup of Kona with what mutt breath just said to me, so I resort to a typical dumb immature guy

And therein ^^^^^^^^^^^ lies the problem....

More to the point....

so I resort to a typical dumb immature guy
....

Thank God nobody had to die over you resorting to a typical dumb immature guy...

YOU SHOULD HAVE WALKED INTO THE BUILDING WITHOUT ANY VERBAL EXCHANGE AND CALLED THE POLICE... IT WAS ONLY GRAFFEITI GODS SAKE.... YOU NEED TO RE-THINK YOUR CARRYING A FIREARM UNTIL YOU ARE ABLE TO NO LONGER ..."RESORT TO A TYPICAL DUMB IMMATURE GUY"...

Nuff Said..... (Ok not really but I am done here..)

Outdoorsman1
 
Last edited:

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
Personally, I think he took a mighty big risk for some punk whose girlfriend just used a magic marker on a switch box.

I won't mind defending myself with my handgun if the occasion ever warrants it...but I'll certainly "choose my battles".
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
The punk put on a bandana, approached aggressively and actded as if he had a weapon. I too would have been in fear for my life. If Steve had shot and emergency personnel showed up to find a gang-banger dressed punk on the ground wearing a bandana does anyone really think LEO is going to think the punk was on his way to church?

Steve admits his mouth escalated things, however, he was speaking to people committing a criminal act of vandalism against his employer's property. I don't think that initiating contact in that situation is unreasonable or a deviation from normal. I certianly would yell at someone I saw committing vandalism in such a situation. The real escalation was the punks donnning of a bandana, clearly not an act of a person preparing to act in a lawful manner.

He should have shot? Wasn't there and he did say the punk was quickly approaching (so not yet within) the 21' range so Steve presumably still have some room/time. Seriously injuring and possibly killing another human being carries likely life-altering consequences even if the event is deemed self-defense. Just because you are justified to draw and shoot doesn't mean you have to do either or both. I think the figure was 98% of self-defense involving a firearm in which no shots are fired?

Obviously from the story, Steve suspected that the punk did not have an actual weapon in his pocket but was rather trying to stand him down with aggressive behavior. Could that have gotten him killed or injured? Sure. But he made the best decision he could in the fog of the moment. And apparently the right one, at least at the point the bandana wearing punk was aggressively approaching.

All that being said, yeah, I think he should have called the cops afterwards.
 
Top