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Thread: Law on regional airports with carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Law on regional airports with carry

    What is the law on regional airports with carrying a gun?
    From what I know, no terminals. Just in the parking lot only?


    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+18.2-287.01

    It shall be unlawful for any person to possess or transport into any air carrier airport terminal in the Commonwealth





    Air Carrier Airports – Firearms are not allowed in the Terminals. The VCDL lists those Airports that are considered Air Carrier Airports as:
    Reagan National Arlington, Charlottesville Regional Charlottesville,

    Dulles International Chantilly, Lynchburg Municipal Lynchburg,
    Norfolk International Norfolk, Richmond International Richmond,
    Roanoke Regional Roanoke, Shenandoah Valley Regional Staunton,
    Newport News Williamsburg International Newport News,
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 02-07-2012 at 01:59 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    Me personally until the law is repealed. I will not walk into any building that has tsa employees doing any kind of screening. Unless my firearm is logged up in my baggage and being checked for a flight somewhere.
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    Depends on what you mean by "regional." IANAL, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express the night before I left CONUS (and I am a pilot).

    The terminal building(s) at airports with commercial (airline) service are verboten. Those are the ones you listed. However, other facilities on those same airports (parking garages, FBOs, satellite rental car offices, etc.) are not necessarily off-limits. At smaller airports without commercial service, there is no "terminal" per se, so you're good to go almost anywhere.

    That said, the usual property rights apply--on-airport businesses are within their rights to ban firearms on the property they control.

    At all airports, the parking ramp is "controlled access," meaning you have to pass thru some sort of gate, office, or building (like a hangar) to get out there. This is to prevent theft, vandalism, or other unauthorized access to the ramp, taxiways, runways, etc. There is no metal detector or anything like what passengers undergo. In most FBOs, this simply means there is an attendant near the door to see people entering and exiting (if they aren't outside towing or fueling an airplane). Sometimes they have to "buzz" you in/out. They might ask, "May I help you?" which is polite for, "Who are you and why are you here?" Bottom line: as long as you have business there (flying your own airplane, or riding in someone else's, or even just watching airplanes with your kid(s)), you should be fine.

    I believe charter operators are responsible to do their own screening, if they want to have any. Most don't bother unless you're suspicious in some way.

    So, if you go to, say, Norfolk International, you are legal to carry in the parking lot (or idling by the curb to pick someone up), at the FBO (Landmark Aviation), the various repair facilities and hangars, etc. You just can't go into the passenger terminal where Delta, United, and US Airways are.

    On the other hand, if you go to Chesapeake, Hampton Rds Exec, Suffolk, etc., you will likely find very few restrictions or visible security measures. Probably, no one there will care if you're carrying any more than anywhere else.
    Last edited by Eeyore; 02-09-2012 at 04:51 AM. Reason: correct an omission
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Me personally until the law is repealed. I will not walk into any building that has tsa employees doing any kind of screening. Unless my firearm is logged up in my baggage and being checked for a flight somewhere.
    Agree with that. They can't even figure out their own rules imagine if they had to follow state law. Maybe they would realize their theater show is just that when they realize that there are those who are quite willing to try to defend themselves.

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    So. . . Am I okay to carry at the Virginia Tech/Montgomery Executive Airport? The information I have read suggests that it is simply a public, non-commercial airport, and I do not believe that the university actually operates the airport in any way. My new polling location is listed as the airport (1601 Tech Center Drive, Blacksburg), and I am itching to finally be able to exercise my right to carry on election day. Having come from northern Virginia, my polling place had previously always been in a school, which infuriated me to no end.

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    While looking closely at a map of the District of Columbia, I noticed a very thin strip of land following the Dulles access road and going around Dulles airport. Looks to me like all of that is DC. Is this correct? Part of the Washington Airports Authority? May have impact on OC'ing in the Dulles parking lots or on the access road if so.

    What about passing over the access road (i.e. Farifax County Parkway) on my way to the range?

    Thanks !

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    What is the law on regional airports with carrying a gun?
    From what I know, no terminals. Just in the parking lot only?


    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...od+18.2-287.01









    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf
    I'm a pilot and I've carried at most airports in the state of Virginia.

    Do not confuse a "regional airport "with an airports with an "air carrier airport terminal" as defined in the law.

    A regional airports are designed to serve a particular geographic area. I keep my plane at Manassas Regional Airport (KHEF), it has a terminal, but there are no regularly scheduled air carriers and no air carrier terminal.

    Charlottesville airport (KCHO) does have an air carrier terminal and regularly scheduled airline service. The terminal area has is tightly controlled access and its boundaries are clearly marked on the tarmac. There is also a general aviation (GA) terminal run by an FBO. That's were small planes like mine park and how GA pilots and passengers enter and exit to the smaller planes.

    It is perfectly legal in VA to carry in the non-air carrier buildings and non-controlled access areas on the airport grounds. In some cases that is the entire airport (Manassas), in some there are a few regulated places you can't carry (Charlottesville), and in some cases there are very specific places you can and cannot carry (Dulles).

    I routinely open carry at Dulles and National when dropping off or picking up passengers. I just don't enter the terminal building. I stay outside in the parking lot, road, or sidewalk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwaldo View Post
    While looking closely at a map of the District of Columbia, I noticed a very thin strip of land following the Dulles access road and going around Dulles airport. Looks to me like all of that is DC. Is this correct? Part of the Washington Airports Authority? May have impact on OC'ing in the Dulles parking lots or on the access road if so.

    What about passing over the access road (i.e. Farifax County Parkway) on my way to the range?

    Thanks !
    It's owned and operated by the airport authority. It's in Virginia, it isn't part of DC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    So. . . Am I okay to carry at the Virginia Tech/Montgomery Executive Airport? The information I have read suggests that it is simply a public, non-commercial airport, and I do not believe that the university actually operates the airport in any way. My new polling location is listed as the airport (1601 Tech Center Drive, Blacksburg), and I am itching to finally be able to exercise my right to carry on election day. Having come from northern Virginia, my polling place had previously always been in a school, which infuriated me to no end.
    The airport is a publicly owned regional airport controlled by the Virginia Tech Montgomery Regional Airport Authority, with board members from VA Tech, Montgomery county, Blacksburg, and Christiansburg.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    So, if you go to, say, Norfolk International, you are legal to carry in the parking lot (or idling by the curb to pick someone up), at the FBO (Landmark Aviation), the various repair facilities and hangars, etc. You just can't go into the passenger terminal where Delta, United, and US Airways are.
    I disagree. At an Air Carrier airport (like norfolk), ANY BUILDING that opens to both airside and landside is a "Terminal Building".. And landmark and other FBO's host charter "airline" aircraft all the time.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    I disagree. At an Air Carrier airport (like norfolk), ANY BUILDING that opens to both airside and landside is a "Terminal Building".. And landmark and other FBO's host charter "airline" aircraft all the time.
    A cite to authority is required by OCDO rules. Try this: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+24VAC5-20-10 Seems there is an additional reference in there to operation under 14 CFR Part 119, 121, 129 or 135 providing scheduled passenger service.

    Charter airlines, by their very definition, do not offer scheduled passenger service. I cannot just show up at at charter airline at 2:37 PM and buy a ticket for a 3:15 PM flight to EBF. By it's very definition I would need to charter the airline for a flight to EBF.

    Or do I completely misunderstand the concept of charter transportation?

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    A cite to authority is required by OCDO rules. Try this: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+24VAC5-20-10 Seems there is an additional reference in there to operation under 14 CFR Part 119, 121, 129 or 135 providing scheduled passenger service.

    Charter airlines, by their very definition, do not offer scheduled passenger service. I cannot just show up at at charter airline at 2:37 PM and buy a ticket for a 3:15 PM flight to EBF. By it's very definition I would need to charter the airline for a flight to EBF.

    Or do I completely misunderstand the concept of charter transportation?

    stay safe.
    My previous post spoke to my interpretation and what I do from a practical aspect. Ed's comments and yours led me to go back to the various references and the one linkage I see missing is how the VCDL derived the list below that is found on their website.

    Air carrier airport terminal buildings (18.2-287.01)
    Charlottesville Regional Airport, Charlottesville, VA
    Dulles International Airport, Chantilly, VA
    Lynchburg Municipal Airport, Lynchburg, VA
    Newport News Williamsburg Regional Airport, Newport News, VA
    Norfolk International Airport, Norfolk, VA
    Reagan National Airport, Arlington, VA
    Richmond International Airport, Richmond, VA
    Roanoke Regional Airport, Roanoke, VA
    Shenandoah Valley Regional Airport, Staunton, VA

    By my observation, the common thread between all of these airports is that they are the ones in VA that offer scheduled passenger service. But I don't see where that is specifically spelled out in the law as Ed points out, so one could infer that the list should be much larger.

    Your reference above is from the "airline" definition, but airline is not the word used in the VA law, 18.2-287.01 uses the term "air carrier airport terminal" not "airline airport terminal". Is this a case of all pit bulls are dogs, but not all dogs are pit bulls? All airlines are air carriers, but not all air carriers are airlines?

    I do not see anything that spells out what an "air carrier airport terminal" really is and to which terminals the law applies.

    At Manassas airport there is a public terminal. There are air carriers that operate out of Manassas, but there is no scheduled air carrier (airline) service. I keep my airplane at ACC Jet Services and I enter and exit thru their FBO building, which in many aspects is more of a terminal than the public terminal and there are air carriers (non-scheduled) that utilize the ACC FBO to pick up and drop off passengers.

    Contrast that with Charlottesville airport where there is a public terminal, with scheduled air carrier service. There is also the Landmark FBO "terminal".

    I've open carried in the General Aviation (GA) areas and terminals at Charlottesville, Lynchburg, Norfolk, Richmond, and Shenandoah on several occaisions and I've never been hassled. In all of those cases I was exiting from a plane that I piloted to the airport, parked on the GA tarmac and entered the GA terminal. But in re-reading everything, I'm beginning to wonder if it was actually legal.
    Last edited by jegoodin; 08-29-2013 at 11:58 AM. Reason: grammar issues

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    FWIW...........
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/47102

    (1)“air carrier airport” means a public airport regularly served by—(A) an air carrier certificated by the Secretary of Transportation under section 41102 of this title (except a charter air carrier); or
    (B) at least one air carrier—(i) operating under an exemption from section 41101 (a)(1) of this title that the Secretary grants; and
    (ii) having at least 2,500 passenger boardings at the airport during the prior calendar year.

    .................................................. ................

    49 USC 41102 - General, temporary, and charter air transportation certificates of air carriers




    Current through Pub. L. 113-31. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    (a) Issuance.— The Secretary of Transportation may issue a certificate of public convenience and necessity to a citizen of the United States authorizing the citizen to provide any part of the following air transportation the citizen has applied for under section 41108 of this title1) air transportation as an air carrier.
    (2) temporary air transportation as an air carrier for a limited period.
    (3) charter air transportation as a charter air carrier.

    (b) Findings Required for Issuance.—(1) Before issuing a certificate under subsection (a) of this section, the Secretary must find that the citizen is fit, willing, and able to provide the transportation to be authorized by the certificate and to comply with this part and regulations of the Secretary.
    (2) In addition to the findings under paragraph (1) of this subsection, the Secretary, before issuing a certificate under subsection (a) of this section for foreign air transportation, must find that the transportation is consistent with the public convenience and necessity.

    (c) Temporary Certificates.— The Secretary may issue a certificate under subsection (a) of this section for interstate air transportation (except the transportation of passengers) or foreign air transportation for a temporary period of time (whether the application is for permanent or temporary authority) when the Secretary decides that a test period is desirable—(1) to decide if the projected services, efficiencies, methods, and prices and the projected results will materialize and remain for a sustained period of time; or
    (2) to evaluate the new transportation.

    (d) Foreign Air Transportation.— The Secretary shall submit each decision authorizing the provision of foreign air transportation to the President under section41307 of this title.










    Last edited by peter nap; 08-29-2013 at 12:17 PM.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jegoodin View Post
    At Manassas airport there is a public terminal. There are air carriers that operate out of Manassas, but there is no scheduled air carrier (airline) service. I keep my airplane at ACC Jet Services and I enter and exit thru their FBO building, which in many aspects is more of a terminal than the public terminal and there are air carriers (non-scheduled) that utilize the ACC FBO to pick up and drop off passengers.

    Contrast that with Charlottesville airport where there is a public terminal, with scheduled air carrier service. There is also the Landmark FBO "terminal".

    I've open carried in the General Aviation (GA) areas and terminals at Charlottesville, Lynchburg, Norfolk, Richmond, and Shenandoah on several occaisions and I've never been hassled. In all of those cases I was exiting from a plane that I piloted to the airport, parked on the GA tarmac and entered the GA terminal. But in re-reading everything, I'm beginning to wonder if it was actually legal.
    Years ago.. They put up a NO WEAPONS sign at that Manassas terminal. I called The airport director, Juan Rivera and he had it taken down the next day.

    The list of "air carrier" airports came via email to VCDL.

    I would submit that if you carried in a building that opens to both airside and landside AT one of the air carrier airports, you were in violation.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    If I may ask here, with the Peanut fest being held at the Suffolk Excutive Airport, I should be able to carry there with np's providing there is no signage? I see nothing on the website for the airport which is here..

    http://www.suffolkva.us/airport/

    Heres the website for Peanut Fest

    http://www.suffolkfest.org/T0.aspx?PID=2

    I didn't see anything, and if time, money permitted, I thought about seeing if we can do a OC get together in Oct. during that weekend.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    I should be able to carry there with np's providing there is no signage?
    You should be able to carry there even if there IS signage saying you can't. it is not an air carrier airport.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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