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Thread: Law on universities/college carry in vehicle

  1. #1
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Law on universities/college carry in vehicle

    What is the law on carrying a gun locked in your trunk at a college/university?

    I can't find a code on it, just colleges "prohibit it"


    http://concealedcampus.org/blog/2011...-campus-carry/
    Virginia Supreme Court Rules Against Campus Carry

    “Students and faculty cannot carry inside academic buildings, or inside large gatherings like stadiums, but it doesn’t appear to impact general members of the public,” stated Kurt Mueller, an attorney with Students for Concealed Carry. “They can carry on campus grounds or, for example in their cars. The regulation isn’t part of the statute, so there’s no criminal penalties attached to carrying at all.”
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Depends on which college/university you are dealing with. VCU, UVa and iirc Old Dominion have enacted regulations via the Virginia Administrative Code while others, such as Mary Washington, JMU and W&M merely have policies prohibiting carry.

    On top of all this is the most recent opinion from our Attorney General that even the VAC regulations do not prohibit concealed carry within the buildings by CHP holders who are not student/staff/faculty.

    All of this, of course, would be a moot issue if any of the bills prohibiting state agencies from making rules about firearms had gotten to see daylight. One day we may actually see true statewide preemption. Tll then it takes some serious research to know which law/regulation/policy you are going to be violating.

    As for your quote - that might apply to a violation of a policy, but violations of the VAC do carry criminal penalties. It is usually spelled out within the VAC what part of the Criminal Code you violate by violating the VAC. From there you can determine if you are committing a misdemeanor or a felony, and how long you could end up locked up if convicted.

    stay safe.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Depends on which college/university you are dealing with. VCU, UVa and iirc Old Dominion have enacted regulations via the Virginia Administrative Code while others, such as Mary Washington, JMU and W&M merely have policies prohibiting carry.

    On top of all this is the most recent opinion from our Attorney General that even the VAC regulations do not prohibit concealed carry within the buildings by CHP holders who are not student/staff/faculty.

    All of this, of course, would be a moot issue if any of the bills prohibiting state agencies from making rules about firearms had gotten to see daylight. One day we may actually see true statewide preemption. Tll then it takes some serious research to know which law/regulation/policy you are going to be violating.

    As for your quote - that might apply to a violation of a policy, but violations of the VAC do carry criminal penalties. It is usually spelled out within the VAC what part of the Criminal Code you violate by violating the VAC. From there you can determine if you are committing a misdemeanor or a felony, and how long you could end up locked up if convicted.

    stay safe.
    A private university.

    Old Dominion have enacted regulations via the Virginia Administrative Code while others, such as Mary Washington, JMU and W&M merely have policies prohibiting carry
    Prohibiting carry, as in the car? do you have the code?
    Also what is VAC? thanks

    Oh, how do I find out if a college/uni is under VAC?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 02-07-2012 at 03:07 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    On top of all this is the most recent opinion from our Attorney General that even the VAC regulations do not prohibit concealed carry within the buildings by CHP holders who are not student/staff/faculty.
    Wait a moment, which opinion was that? I remember the one saying that school policies couldn't be enforced against visitors with a CHP, but where did he issue an opinion on VAC regulations being overruled by a CHP?

    At the GMU protest, for example, it was made explicitly clear that we weren't allowed to go into any of the buildings while armed because of the VAC regulation against it.

    EDIT: The most recent firearms-related opinion I can see is this one. Cuccinelli specifically stated that because UVa only had a policy and not a regulation against carry, that CHPs were exempt.
    Last edited by grylnsmn; 02-07-2012 at 02:54 PM.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
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  5. #5
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    http://opencarry.org/va.html
    College Carry Carry Not Statutorily Prohibited

    NOTE: Even if Legal, Students May be Subject to Academic Sanctions
    ~can be outdated



    http://forums.buckeyefirearms.org/vi...hp?f=1&t=12865
    Liberty University OKs concealed guns on campus

    Liberty University OKs concealed guns on campus

    By: Liz Barry
    Published: November 16, 2011
    Updated: November 16, 2011 - 10:38 PM

    Liberty University enacted a policy allowing visitors, students and staff who have concealed weapons permits to carry guns on campus.

    The policy, approved Friday by the Board of Trustees and announced to students Wednesday, replaces a complete ban of firearms on university grounds.

    Visitors are now permitted to store their weapons in locked cars, while students can apply for permission from campus police to carry a gun on the outdoor grounds or in a locked car. Both groups must have concealed-weapons permits and are prohibited from bringing firearms into any campus building, including dormitories, stadiums and academic halls.

    The policy also permits some faculty and staff to carry weapons inside buildings, with permission granted on a case-by-case basis by campus police.

    Liberty now has the most lenient firearms policy among local colleges and universities. Lynchburg College, Randolph College and Central Virginia Community College do not permit anyone except law enforcement to carry firearms. At Sweet Briar College, a rural campus that includes faculty and staff homes, firearms are highly regulated but sometimes allowed for hunting with a college-issued permit.

    Liberty Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. said the ...



    4. Virginia law does not prohibit the carry or possession of firearms on college and university property. However, many colleges and universities have established policies prohibiting students and staff from possessing or carrying firearms on campus. Students risk expulsion and staff risk being fired if they violate these policies.http://www.vcdl.org/surveys/survey_2011.html
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 02-07-2012 at 03:01 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  6. #6
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    VAC regulation against it.

    Regulation/Law/Policies.....

    From what I see, from the post below, there is no LAW in VA on prohibit carry/possession of firearms on college/university grounds. I have found no laws.
    It just says in college/university policies that they can expel you for it. I cannot find a criminal code for it.

    And what is with the ODU regulation I saw in the papers a while back? what difference is a regulation. Like it says below.

    Virginia law does not prohibit the carry or possession of firearms on college and university property. However, many colleges and universities have established policies prohibiting students and staff from possessing or carrying firearms on campus. Students risk expulsion and staff risk being fired if they violate these policies.http://www.vcdl.org/surveys/survey_2011.html
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 02-07-2012 at 03:06 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  7. #7
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    http://hamptonroads.com/2012/01/odu-...cealed-permits
    ODU approves campus gun ban, including concealed permits
    Old Dominion University's Board of Visitors approved a regulation Thursday that prohibits everyone except law enforcement officers from bringing a gun to campus buildings or events.



    weren't they already banned?
    ODU's policy already banned firearms, but because it was not a regulation approved by the governing board, the state attorney general said it wasn't enforceable against campus visitors with proper permits.


    what has changed?
    The complete ban means students and visitors - with or without concealed handgun permits - are banned from bringing firearms to campus buildings or events.






    http://www.odu.edu/ao/bov/meetings/1...Regulation.pdf

    found this,

    8VAC65-10-20. Possession of weapons prohibited.
    Possession or carrying of any weapon by any person, except a police officer, is
    prohibited on university property in academic buildings, administrative office buildings,
    student residence buildings, or dining facilities, or while attending sporting,
    entertainment, or educational events. Entry upon the university property described in this
    section in violation of this chapter is expressly forbidden.
    forbidden? what charge?

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC65-10-20

    8VAC65-10-20. Possession of weapons prohibited.

    Possession or carrying of any weapon by any person, except a police officer, is prohibited on university property in academic buildings, administrative office buildings, student residence buildings, or dining facilities, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational events. Entry upon the university property described in this section in violation of this chapter is expressly forbidden.

    Statutory Authority

    § 23-49.17 of the Code of Virginia.

    Historical Notes

    Derived from Virginia Register Volume 28, Issue 11, eff. January 13, 2012.
    It says "in" what about parking lots?


    All university propertys? what about private not owned by state?
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 02-07-2012 at 03:17 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    Wait a moment, which opinion was that? I remember the one saying that school policies couldn't be enforced against visitors with a CHP, but where did he issue an opinion on VAC regulations being overruled by a CHP?

    At the GMU protest, for example, it was made explicitly clear that we weren't allowed to go into any of the buildings while armed because of the VAC regulation against it.

    EDIT: The most recent firearms-related opinion I can see is this one. Cuccinelli specifically stated that because UVa only had a policy and not a regulation against carry, that CHPs were exempt.
    The Va Supreme Courts decision in http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1091934.pdf provided the elements for universities to disallow guns in the building and at special events (stadium and the like), but NOT to ban legal citizens from carrying on the grounds thereof.

    The AG's opinion that the Virginia Administrative Code (VAC) was the route to take to enforce that ban in the buildings has been noted. However, it might be well to point out that to my knowledge the VAC procedure to secure such was NOT followed correctly, no notice or period for public comment was ever accomplished. Wanna be a test case?

    Point - we have and continue to both OC and CC on the grounds of these schools.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    http://uvamagazine.org/top_universit...ealed_weapons/

    Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has opined that a University of Virginia policy against firearms on campus may not be legally enforced.

    The university flatly prohibits firearms on its property, with the exception of police officers. Emmett Hanger, a state senator, asked Cuccinelli whether the policy was legal.

    In a July 1 response [pdf], Cuccinelli replies that it is not. The story was previously reported in the Virginian-Pilot newspaper.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  10. #10
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The Va Supreme Courts decision in http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1091934.pdf provided the elements for universities to disallow guns in the building and at special events (stadium and the like), but NOT to ban legal citizens from carrying on the grounds thereof.

    The AG's opinion that the Virginia Administrative Code (VAC) was the route to take to enforce that ban in the buildings has been noted. However, it might be well to point out that to my knowledge the VAC procedure to secure such was NOT followed correctly, no notice or period for public comment was ever accomplished. Wanna be a test case?

    Point - we have and continue to both OC and CC on the grounds of these schools.
    So then its legal to leave a locked gun in your car on unvi grounds?
    From what I got out of this is, in the buidlings and events, like you said and the GMU case.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC65-10-20


    8VAC65-10-20. Possession of weapons prohibited.

    Possession or carrying of any weapon by any person, except a police officer, is prohibited on university property in academic buildings, administrative office buildings, student residence buildings, or dining facilities, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational events. Entry upon the university property described in this section in violation of this chapter is expressly forbidden.

    Statutory Authority

    § 23-49.17 of the Code of Virginia.

    Historical Notes

    Derived from Virginia Register Volume 28, Issue 11, eff. January 13, 2012.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  11. #11
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    GMU promulgated 8 VAC § 35-60-20 to restrict the possession or carrying of weapons in its facilities or at university events by individuals other than police officers. The regulation does not impose a total ban of weapons on campus. Rather, the regulation is tailored, restricting weapons only in those places where people congregate and are most vulnerable – inside campus buildings and at campus events. Individuals may still carry or possess weapons on the open grounds of GMU, and in other places on campus not enumerated in the regulation.
    http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...wp/1091934.pdf
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    So then its legal to leave a locked gun in your car on unvi grounds?
    From what I got out of this is, in the buidlings and events, like you said and the GMU case.
    Ah so, but if you are a student, professor or staff you may still be subject to non-judicial punishment i.e. expelled or fired for violation of of their Rules and Regulations pertaining to conduct.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Ah so, but if you are a student, professor or staff you may still be subject to non-judicial punishment i.e. expelled or fired for violation of of their Rules and Regulations pertaining to conduct.
    I have to visit a university soon for something, and I am not a student there. The only thing I found on students is if it's in the buildings/football place etc..)prohibited( not the grounds/lot as far as law. Fired or expelled for violation, not criminal unless in those prohibited places.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 02-07-2012 at 03:54 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    I have to visit a university soon for something, and I am not a student there. The only thing I found on students is if it's in the buildings/football place etc..)prohibited( not the grounds/lot as far as law. Fired or expelled for violation, not criminal unless in those prohibited places.
    You should be good to go.

    But for others (students and staff), it would not look good on their resume or transfer records to another college.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You should be good to go.

    But for others (students and staff), it would not look good on their resume or transfer records to another college.
    ...depending on what college or career you wanted to go into... "Unconstitutionally expelled for choosing to exercise my Second Amendment Rights..."

    Admittedly, a strategy that is best considered very carefully!

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    What is the law on carrying a gun locked in your trunk at a college/university?

    I can't find a code on it, just colleges "prohibit it."

    http://concealedcampus.org/blog/2011...-campus-carry/
    Virginia Supreme Court Rules Against Campus Carry
    Folks - keep it simple:

    1. If you are not a student or staff member at that college, their "policies" do not apply to you.

    2. If the college has published a gun ban "regulation" in the Virgnia Administrative Code, then it applies to you.

    However, none of the college "regulations" ban gun carry generally on college grounds and/or in vehicles.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Folks - keep it simple:

    1. If you are not a student or staff member at that college, their "policies" do not apply to you.

    2. If the college has published a gun ban "regulation" in the Virgnia Administrative Code, then it applies to you.

    However, none of the college "regulations" ban gun carry generally on college grounds and/or in vehicles.
    Would the "trespassing rule" apply to all colleges if they make their wishes known or would that only apply to private universities?

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