Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: References for CPL application

  1. #1
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196

    References for CPL application

    In the CPL application for they ask for 2 references, have any of you left those blank? Just wondering if they are required in order to be granted a CPL or if they are voluntary.

    Link to application-

    http://michigan.gov/documents/ri-012_7736_7.pdf

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    good question, actually.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  3. #3
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772
    I questioned that when I applied for mine. County clerk told me it was mandatory; it cannot be sent in/filed with anything blank.
    Take it for what it's worth; not to say she knew the rules, but I didn't push it.

  4. #4
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Reading some older posts on other forums it appears this request was not always on the CPL application, it's was added sometime after shall issue went into effect (read some reports of it not appearing until 2005 applications.) I wonder how and why it was put onto the application?

    Was the shall issue law amended to include this or did someone in "power" just decide we must do it? I am not too good at reading "legal language", but maybe someone could check out the shall issue law and see if this is mentioned anywhere.

    Maybe this is something that would be worth pursuing to see if it is legal to require? Maybe one of us who has a good relationship with someone at the MSP could inquire about it?
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 02-08-2012 at 07:48 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772
    Mine was applied for/issued in May '06 and it was on there. Don't know about it prior to that.
    As a side note: not to get into it too much; but one of my references was called by someone claiming to be from the county sheriff's office with a few questions.
    Two of which were: how long have you known him? and was I responsible person with no known mental problems?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Gosh, I wish they would do that for people wishing to exercise other Constitutional rights. "Pardon me, Ma'am, but did you know your neighbor has applied for a license to vote? Has he always been a stable person, not prone to voting for idiot candidates?"

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    456
    In 2005 when I got mine not only did I have to list them on there, but Wayne County required two letters of reference and they had to be notarized. I asked the clerk why I had to produce the letters when no other county required it. She said something to the fact that the county sheriff made that ruling.

  8. #8
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    I think we should have this removed. When I got my North Dakota permit I had to list a "reason" for getting the permit. I wanted to say I don't need a reason it's my right! But just put that it's for self defense.

    ETA: Cite for the law

    28.425b License application; fee; verification of requirements; determination; circumstances for issuance; fingerprints; issuance or denial; temporary license; suspension or revocation of license; definitions.
    Sec. 5b. (1) To obtain a license to carry a concealed pistol, an individual shall apply to the concealed weapon licensing board in the county in which that individual resides. The application shall be filed with the county clerk during the county clerk's normal business hours. The application shall be on a form provided by the director of the department of state police and shall allow the applicant to designate whether the applicant seeks a temporary license. The application shall be signed under oath by the applicant. The oath shall be administered by the county clerk or his or her representative. The application shall contain all of the following information:
    (h) The names, residential addresses, and telephone numbers of 2 individuals who are references for the applicant. Information received under this subdivision is confidential, is not subject to disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246, and shall not be disclosed to any person except for purposes of this act or for law enforcement purposes.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 02-08-2012 at 09:21 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  9. #9
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I think we should have this removed. When I got my North Dakota permit I had to list a "reason" for getting the permit. I wanted to say I don't need a reason it's my right! But just put that it's for self defense.

    ETA: Cite for the law
    Ok so it's required, thank you for providing the relevant law. I'm with you on getting this portion removed, nothing but a burden on people trying to exercise their Rights. I have also read that some people were told it could not be someone living outside of MI, but I do not see that requirement...

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    Ok so it's required, thank you for providing the relevant law. I'm with you on getting this portion removed, nothing but a burden on people trying to exercise their Rights. I have also read that some people were told it could not be someone living outside of MI, but I do not see that requirement...
    It also does not stipulate that they cannot be family members or anything like that. I think I'll use my mom and step dad as references on this one.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361
    The references are a complete waste of time and space on the application. They are just that, references, regardless if for the CPL application, employment, etc, they are are just people, places or things that will implicate the good things about an applicant. Christ, even Charles Manson can get two individuals to say good things about him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Maybee, Michigan
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    Reading some older posts on other forums it appears this request was not always on the CPL application, it's was added sometime after shall issue went into effect (read some reports of it not appearing until 2005 applications.) I wonder how and why it was put onto the application?

    Was the shall issue law amended to include this or did someone in "power" just decide we must do it? I am not too good at reading "legal language", but maybe someone could check out the shall issue law and see if this is mentioned anywhere.

    Maybe this is something that would be worth pursuing to see if it is legal to require? Maybe one of us who has a good relationship with someone at the MSP could inquire about it?
    the form linked is revised Oct of 2010 I don't remember it even being on mine when I filed it.

    but then again I don't remember what day it is half the time LOL
    Last edited by Onnie; 02-09-2012 at 07:41 AM.
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
    American Tactical Imports C45 45 AP
    S&W sigma 40 Cal
    Bersa 380 Thunder Plus
    Hi point C9 9mm
    Chiappa 1911-22 Semi-Auto .22 LR

    Im not a lawyer, but I did play a Klingon once at Universal Studios

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Troy, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,321
    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    In 2005 when I got mine not only did I have to list them on there, but Wayne County required two letters of reference and they had to be notarized. I asked the clerk why I had to produce the letters when no other county required it. She said something to the fact that the county sheriff made that ruling.
    wow, too bad county sheriffs can't make "rulings". incredible, the abuse of power.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  14. #14
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    the form linked is revised Oct of 2010 I don't remember it even being on mine when I filed it.

    but then again I don't remember what day it is half the time LOL
    I filed in January of 2009, I think it was on there but like you I can't remember lol, pretty sure they were on there though. I thought I made a copy of my app but just checked my filing cabinet and no luck.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Maybee, Michigan
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    I filed in January of 2009, I think it was on there but like you I can't remember lol, pretty sure they were on there though. I thought I made a copy of my app but just checked my filing cabinet and no luck.
    no one ever mentioned anyone called, of course if I had to put references down, I am sure I put down both of my xwifes!!!!! they love me still (not) and I am sure they would have given me a fantastic recommendation!
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
    American Tactical Imports C45 45 AP
    S&W sigma 40 Cal
    Bersa 380 Thunder Plus
    Hi point C9 9mm
    Chiappa 1911-22 Semi-Auto .22 LR

    Im not a lawyer, but I did play a Klingon once at Universal Studios

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •