Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Wanting to OC, please help

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    3

    Question Wanting to OC, please help

    I've been wanting to open carry for a while now and I want to get answers to all my questions before I do so, so I can get an idea of what I'll be getting myself into.
    1. I have a CC permit, will I get in trouble for OC?
    2. I have three young children, will I get in trouble for carrying around them?
    3. Where am I not allowed to carry?
    4. What signs on doors will prevent me to carry in that building?
    5. Can I OC in my car when I pick up/drop off my kids at school?
    6. If and when I get harrassed by police other than the consititution what Utah Codes allow me to OC?

    I have been discouraged to actually OC because I was told I was not allowed to OC if I have a concealed, while I'm not sure this is true or not I would like to make sure first. I have also been told that cops will find other small reasons to give you tickets as a way to show their lack of support fo open carry...has anyone had any problems with this. Does anyone have issues with people calling the police or telling you that you are a bad person for carrying? (This I only care about because I don't want to have a ton of problems with people lecturing me in front of my kids). I just recently came home from a vacation in Ohio in which I was able to OC the enitre time and would like to do the same here. Also I am open to any other advice or feedback.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Seraf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4
    Hey Mosquito - It's late and I'm exhausted, so I don't have the brainpower to gather links & such from UT law. But I will work on that tomorrow unless someone beats me to it.

    Just didn't want you to think you're being ignored.

    In the mean time, here's my understanding:
    1. No - you already have the legal right to OC in Utah, the CC permit adds the right to CC.
    2. No, as long as you are carrying safely and according to law (OC in Utah requires that the firearm be 2 mechanical actions away from firing)
    3. You can't carry on private property if you're asked not to. (Verbally, or by signage, or by public announcement in the paper)
    4. "No firearms"
    5. For private schools, it's up to the school. For public state-run schools, I know you can carry if you have a CC permit. Not certain about OC without a permit - laws just changed last year; there used to be a buffer-zone (1000'? 50'? I forget but I'll look it up)
    6. I'll look up the OC and CC codes and post them here when my brain returns.

    And... welcome!

  3. #3
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    1. No.
    2. No, as long as you are carrying safely and according to law (However, with your CFP Utah law exempts you from the requirement that the firearm be more than a single mechanical action away from firing). By virtue of your CFP, you may carry with a round in the chamber.
    3. If posted, you could be charged with trespass, or if not posted but the property owner/manager or their "agent" asked you to leave and you did not leave, you could be arrested under the same charge. You should have gotten a one page letter from the Utah BCI in the envelope with your CFP outlining where you could not legally carry. You are exempt from the majority of restrictions for those who do not have a CFP, but airports, federal buildings, State Parks prohibit handguns carried by civilians... schools? I think you can OC there, but I wouldn't swear to it. I'll try to remember to check the UCA and get back to you on schools.
    4. No Firearms (or No Weapons allowed).
    5. You may be safe if you don't stop on school property to drop off/pick up. I think they removed the distance restriction, but again, I'll try to remember to check the UCA and get back to you on schools (I have no reason to be at a school any more, so I really didn't try to remember that particular info).
    6. This URL will probably answer all your Q's accurately - http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/Fir....html#Carrying If not it can link you to the full Utah Code.

    You MAY OC if you have your CFP. (It may make some LEOs nervous, and you may find yourself being FI'd, but the UCA and the Utah Constitution both allow it. Then answer to the rest of your Qs in the last paragraph is NO. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 02-09-2012 at 01:59 AM.
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    3
    Thank you I guess my only question now is, If I am going to OC...when I have a coat on, do I still need to make the gun visable?

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosquito25 View Post
    Thank you I guess my only question now is, If I am going to OC...when I have a coat on, do I still need to make the gun visable?
    Aaaa......if it can't be seen (covered by coat) then it ain't open carry - its concealed.
    That is what distinguishes OC from CC.

    With a permit CC would of course be legal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosquito25 View Post
    Thank you I guess my only question now is, If I am going to OC...when I have a coat on, do I still need to make the gun visable?
    No. Your CFP permits you to legally conceal it. But, if your desire is to OC, then you would necessarily want to make the gun visible. The "need" is your call. And, regarding schools, you cannot legally carry on/about school property. IANAL (See UCA 76-10-505.5 and 53A-3-502). You may want to consider purchasing a soft-bound book entitled "UTAH GUN LAW", 4th Edition, by Mitch Vilos. It's quite useful. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 02-09-2012 at 12:47 PM.
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    3
    I will be looking into getting that book I guess I was wondering with the OC and CC, If I am concealed carrying (I.E. It's covered by a coat) would there be a problem with taking my coat off so it's visable? Or putting a coat on to conceal it when it's been visable. I mean I think I know the answer but before I possibly get in trouble I want to verify.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosquito25 View Post
    I will be looking into getting that book I guess I was wondering with the OC and CC, If I am concealed carrying (I.E. It's covered by a coat) would there be a problem with taking my coat off so it's visable? Or putting a coat on to conceal it when it's been visable. I mean I think I know the answer but before I possibly get in trouble I want to verify.
    Legally, the answers are No and No. Other than that, there's always the possibility that some well-meaning, ignorant civilian will either call the police reporting a MWAG (which may result in an FI being conducted by a LEO), or scream "GUN!!" (panicking everybody within earshot) , or possibly want to 'get in your face' over your exercise of your right under 2A, and the Utah State Constitution. Pax...
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  9. #9
    Regular Member Seraf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    2. No, as long as you are carrying safely and according to law (However, with your CFP Utah law exempts you from the requirement that the firearm be more than a single mechanical action away from firing). By virtue of your CFP, you may carry with a round in the chamber.
    Right! I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the correction Gil223. YDM.

  10. #10
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    No. Your CFP permits you to legally conceal it. But, if your desire is to OC, then you would necessarily want to make the gun visible. The "need" is your call. And, regarding schools, you cannot legally carry on/about school property. IANAL (See UCA 76-10-505.5 and 53A-3-502). You may want to consider purchasing a soft-bound book entitled "UTAH GUN LAW", 4th Edition, by Mitch Vilos. It's quite useful. Pax...

    This is not true. The Concealed Firearm Permit exempts the holder from the prohibition in 76-10-505.5

    There are plenty of pictures of me floating around the interwebz, carrying openly in schools, next to cops and lawmakers. Sort of like my avatar. (Me and Congressman Chaffetz in Salt lake Community College. Not pictured is the State Trooper watching my every move.)

    76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
    (1) As used in this section, "on or about school premises" means:
    (a) (i) in a public or private elementary or secondary school; or
    (ii) on the grounds of any of those schools;
    (b) (i) in a public or private institution of higher education; or
    (ii) on the grounds of a public or private institution of higher education; and
    (iii) (A) inside the building where a preschool or child care is being held, if the entire building is being used for the operation of the preschool or child care; or
    (B) if only a portion of a building is being used to operate a preschool or child care, in that room or rooms where the preschool or child care operation is being held.
    (2) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in this section.
    (3) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
    (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
    (4) This section does not apply if:
    (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, <--- (These are the Concealed Carry Laws) ---> 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, <--- (This is the exemptions for permit holders) or as otherwise authorized by law;
    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
    (d) the possession is:
    (i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property; or
    (ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students.
    (5) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #11
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313
    Also, in regards to your question # 4.

    "No Firearms/Weapons" signs do NOT hold any legal weight in Utah. There are a few exceptions, like "secure areas" private residences and churches, but you may ignore the signs plastered all over Larry H. Miller's properties. If you are asked to leave because of your firearm, and you refuse, then you could get charged with trespassing. But it's not a "gun crime".
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jensen View Post
    This is not true. The Concealed Firearm Permit exempts the holder from the prohibition in 76-10-505.5
    My mistake... I was looking at the reference for those without a CFP, who cannot carry on school grounds. Pax...
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    453

    gil223

    It is legal to carry in unrestricted areas of airports and State Parks.

    No firearms sign cannot get you arrested if you leave upon being asked by someone in charge. It doesn't carry any weight.

    Firearm can be loaded while oc if you have a permit

  14. #14
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weber County Utah
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Count View Post
    It is legal to carry in unrestricted areas of airports and State Parks. In airports you may only carry outside the security checkpoint ("authorized personnel" only beyond that point); State Parks only if you possess a valid CFP.

    No firearms sign cannot get you arrested if you leave upon being asked by someone in charge. It doesn't carry any weight. (Previously covered - but if you don't leave, trespass laws can apply.)

    Firearm can be loaded while oc if you have a permit (Previously covered)
    Thanks for double-checking me though - good job! Pax...
    MOLON LABE
    COUNTRY FIRST
    Glocks ROCK!

  15. #15
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
    Posts
    1,068

    Red face My 2 Cents Worth

    @Mosquito25

    While Kevin did his usual thorough job, I can't resist "breaking it down" for you. You told us that you have a Utah Concealed Firearms Permit. That means that you can carry openly any place that you can lawfully carry concealed; fully loaded and ready to fire.

    You may not carry in a "federal facility", the secure portion of any law enforcement facility, a court of law, at any mental health institution or any correctional facility, in a facility that is being operated as a "house of worship" by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), the secure portion of any airport, any private residence whose lawful occupier prohibits firearms in the home (Notice can be given verbally or by signage.).

    No Weapons signs have no legal meaning in Utah, unless they are placed in a facility or portion of a facility that is already prohibited (see below), but they do serve notice that the occupier or owner may ask you to leave if he/she detects that you have a firearm. If you do not leave when so notified, you may be charged with trespass. (Generally speaking, if you need to pass through a metal detector to enter a facility, you probably cannot legally carry there.)

    Because you have a UT CFP, you may lawfully carry, open or concealed, at any publicly funded institute of learning from preschool through graduate school. Privately owned schools may set their own policy (example: BYU). Unless there is a specific reason for open carry, I recommend concealed carry at schools to minimize the potential for disruption should a child not familiar with firearms become distressed. (This recommendation is common courtesy. Just because you may lawfully do something, does not mean it is a good idea.)

    (Side Note: I have taught the Utah Concealed Firearms Permit course to over 40 elementary school teachers who sought a permit to be able to protect their students in a "Columbine like" scenario. I applaud their decision and taught the course at about 1/2 of the going rate in the SLC valley.)

    You may carry in any Federal or State Park in UT, but beware, the "US Forest Service Ranger's Office" is usually a "Federal Facility" within the meaning of Federal Law.

    I open carry quite a bit, but more often I carry concealed. This is my personal preference because I believe it offers a tactical advantage of surprise. However, just because this is my personal preference, I am in no way trying to discourage you from open carry.

    Carry On -
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •