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Thread: is this sign legal?

  1. #1
    Regular Member bigdodge25's Avatar
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    is this sign legal?

    Is this sign legal? Its at a bank in lexington that I do IT work at. And sorry for it being blurry.

    G19

  2. #2
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    You need to write out what it says, that is too small to read. Although if it's on a bank, which is private property, they can put whatever restrictions they want on carry, but let us know
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 02-09-2012 at 02:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    It reads:

    It is unlawful to carry concealed deadly weapons on these premises. Under penalty of law. KRS 237.110 "14"

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Well.... it's not an 'illegal sign', but it doesn't look like it means anything either, if that's the paragraph they're referencing.

    237.110.(14)
    (a) Not less than one hundred twenty (120) days prior to the expiration date of the license, the Department of Kentucky State Police shall mail to each licensee a written notice of the expiration and a renewal form prescribed by the Department of Kentucky State Police. The outside of the envelope containing
    the license renewal notice shall bear only the name and address of the applicant. No other information relating to the applicant shall appear on the outside of the envelope sent to the applicant. The licensee may renew his or her license on or before the expiration date by filing with the sheriff of his or her county of residence the renewal form, a notarized affidavit stating that the licensee remains qualified pursuant to the criteria specified in subsections (3) and (4) of this section, and the required renewal fee. The sheriff shall issue to the applicant a receipt for the application for renewal of the license and shall date the receipt.
    (b) A license which has expired shall be void and shall not be valid for any purpose other than surrender to the sheriff in exchange for a renewal license.
    (c) The license shall be renewed to a qualified applicant upon receipt of the completed renewal application, records check as specified in subsection (3) of this section, determination that the renewal applicant is not ineligible for a license as specified in subsection (4), and appropriate payment of fees. Upon the issuance of a new license, the old license shall be destroyed by the sheriff. A licensee who fails to file a renewal application on or before its expiration date may renew his or her license by paying, in addition to the license fees, a late fee of fifteen dollars ($15). No license shall be renewed six (6) months or more after its expiration date, and the license shall be deemed to be permanently expired six (6) months after its expiration date. A person whose license has permanently expired may reapply for licensure pursuant to subsections (7), (8), and (9) of this section.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    I wonder if they meant subsection (17)?

    (17) The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, day-care center as defined in KRS 199.894 or certified or licensed family child-care home as defined in KRS 199.8982, or a health-care facility licensed under KRS Chapter 216B, except facilities renting or leasing housing, may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer or business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying concealed weapons is prohibited.

    Possession of weapons, or ammunition, or both in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the weapons, or ammunition, or both are not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. A private but not a public employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employee, except that the Justice and Public Safety Cabinet may prohibit an employee from carrying any weapons, or ammunition, or both other than the weapons, or ammunition, or both issued or authorized to be used by the employee of the cabinet, in a vehicle while transporting persons under the employee's supervision or jurisdiction. Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer.




    It would seem they can say "No", but there is no criminal act unless you refuse to leave (in which case criminal trespass would probably apply.)

  6. #6
    Regular Member bigdodge25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Well.... it's not an 'illegal sign', but it doesn't look like it means anything either, if that's the paragraph they're referencing.

    237.110.(14)
    (a) Not less than one hundred twenty (120) days prior to the expiration date of the license, the Department of Kentucky State Police shall mail to each licensee a written notice of the expiration and a renewal form prescribed by the Department of Kentucky State Police. The outside of the envelope containing
    the license renewal notice shall bear only the name and address of the applicant. No other information relating to the applicant shall appear on the outside of the envelope sent to the applicant. The licensee may renew his or her license on or before the expiration date by filing with the sheriff of his or her county of residence the renewal form, a notarized affidavit stating that the licensee remains qualified pursuant to the criteria specified in subsections (3) and (4) of this section, and the required renewal fee. The sheriff shall issue to the applicant a receipt for the application for renewal of the license and shall date the receipt.
    (b) A license which has expired shall be void and shall not be valid for any purpose other than surrender to the sheriff in exchange for a renewal license.
    (c) The license shall be renewed to a qualified applicant upon receipt of the completed renewal application, records check as specified in subsection (3) of this section, determination that the renewal applicant is not ineligible for a license as specified in subsection (4), and appropriate payment of fees. Upon the issuance of a new license, the old license shall be destroyed by the sheriff. A licensee who fails to file a renewal application on or before its expiration date may renew his or her license by paying, in addition to the license fees, a late fee of fifteen dollars ($15). No license shall be renewed six (6) months or more after its expiration date, and the license shall be deemed to be permanently expired six (6) months after its expiration date. A person whose license has permanently expired may reapply for licensure pursuant to subsections (7), (8), and (9) of this section.
    When I looked up this section I just thought to myself...that has nothing to do with carrying a legal firearm into a building. It just has to do with a license to carry.

    If they were talking about section 17 then the sign means nothing because it says "14".
    G19

  7. #7
    Regular Member bigdodge25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    You need to write out what it says, that is too small to read. Although if it's on a bank, which is private property, they can put whatever restrictions they want on carry, but let us know
    If you click on the picture it makes it bigger....
    G19

  8. #8
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    If you are an employee of the bank, as an IT guy, I would presume there would be a substantial penalty for not following it. However, you might want to suggest to the manager that having this sign:
    a) is an invitation to robbers.
    b) makes them now liable for injuries received by people there since they can't self-defend.
    c) prevents a person with a CC license who is determined by background check NOT to be a felon or convicted of any DV charges from using their services.
    d) prevents you from protecting yourself on the way to your car in the parking lot.
    e) is useless because they don't have a metal detector.
    f) is useless because criminals will not obey it.

    I suspect they think they are a federal institution because they have FDIC coverage.

    Of course, the problem is, by highlighting these things you expose yourself as a "gun nut" (in their minds).

    Good luck!
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  9. #9
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    If you are an employee of the bank, as an IT guy, I would presume there would be a substantial penalty for not following it. However, you might want to suggest to the manager that having this sign:
    a) is an invitation to robbers.
    b) makes them now liable for injuries received by people there since they can't self-defend.
    c) prevents a person with a CC license who is determined by background check NOT to be a felon or convicted of any DV charges from using their services.
    d) prevents you from protecting yourself on the way to your car in the parking lot.
    e) is useless because they don't have a metal detector.
    f) is useless because criminals will not obey it.

    I suspect they think they are a federal institution because they have FDIC coverage.

    Of course, the problem is, by highlighting these things you expose yourself as a "gun nut" (in their minds).

    Good luck!
    Cite?

  10. #10
    Regular Member bigdodge25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    If you are an employee of the bank, as an IT guy, I would presume there would be a substantial penalty for not following it. However, you might want to suggest to the manager that having this sign:
    a) is an invitation to robbers.
    b) makes them now liable for injuries received by people there since they can't self-defend.
    c) prevents a person with a CC license who is determined by background check NOT to be a felon or convicted of any DV charges from using their services.
    d) prevents you from protecting yourself on the way to your car in the parking lot.
    e) is useless because they don't have a metal detector.
    f) is useless because criminals will not obey it.

    I suspect they think they are a federal institution because they have FDIC coverage.

    Of course, the problem is, by highlighting these things you expose yourself as a "gun nut" (in their minds).

    Good luck!
    well im not an employee of the bank...they outsource there IT to the company I work for. i live in louisville and the bank is in richmond. I just hate seeing signs like this if they are illegal.
    G19

  11. #11
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    Would you mind disclosing the name of the bank? It would nice to hold them accountable. That would probably work better from our end than yours.

  12. #12
    Regular Member mem1977's Avatar
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    Cool

    I think the bank needs to check their sign. It makes so sense as to the KRS section it is stating on the sign. Furthermore It says no concealed carry... So do what I do when I see a sign that states they prevent concealed carry. I just walk in open carrying. I've never had trouble yet. LOL

    I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands! ~ Charlton Heston (1923 -- 2008)

    Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand be faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be if I only had a gun; and Lord if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. ~ The Gunfighter’s Prayer

  13. #13
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    Name of this bank is? Have an email for management? This sign is implying you can be arrested for carrying, and they point to section 14 of the statute which makes no sense. Someone needs to inform them of the bottom part of section 17, that says it isn't illegal to still carry.

  14. #14
    Regular Member bigdodge25's Avatar
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    The bank is Madison bank in Richmond kentucky. There may be an email on their website to get to upper management but I cant disclose any other info. I figured that the sign made no sense after I looked up the statute.
    G19

  15. #15
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    b) makes them now liable for injuries received by people there since they can't self-defend.
    c) prevents a person with a CC license who is determined by background check NOT to be a felon or convicted of any DV charges from using their services.
    d) prevents you from protecting yourself on the way to your car in the parking lot.
    e) is useless because they don't have a metal detector.
    f) is useless because criminals will not obey it.

    Good luck!
    Any basis to this claim, or are you just blowing smoke? I am not saying you're wrong, I just want to know where you got that from.

  16. #16
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Name of this bank is? Have an email for management? This sign is implying you can be arrested for carrying, and they point to section 14 of the statute which makes no sense. Someone needs to inform them of the bottom part of section 17, that says it isn't illegal to still carry.
    I suspect that they do this to keep their law abiding patrons from carrying. It is a whole lot more intimidating than saying "it is against our policy to allow firearms or other weapons on the premises". There isn't much they can do to someone carrying if they don't work for the bank. Just give them their money back and tell them to take it somewhere else.

  17. #17
    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    b) makes them now liable for injuries received by people there since they can't self-defend.

    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Cite?
    Don't think a cite is needed for this. It is well known that you can sue any one for anything. As to whether or not you will win or if a court will even hear it is another story.

  18. #18
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYKevin View Post
    b) makes them now liable for injuries received by people there since they can't self-defend.

    Don't think a cite is needed for this. It is well known that you can sue any one for anything. As to whether or not you will win or if a court will even hear it is another story.
    Then there should be a legal precedents. Saying you can sue somebody for looking at you funny and saying that they are liable for it are two different things.

    Liable: 1. responsible by law
    2. Likely to do or be something
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 02-10-2012 at 05:36 PM.

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