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Thread: Culpeper shooting

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Culpeper shooting

    This one bears watching. A witness describes a scenario that does not seem to indicate the officer's life was in any danger. I'm sure more will follow.

    TFred

    http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/news...s-kills-woman/

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    I agree it doesn't sound like he was in fear for his life. The story said he was on the side of the jeep, I bet she was shot in the back.

    It is sad but give someone a badge and gun and they think they are the guatapo and can do anything they like........

  3. #3
    Regular Member paramedic's Avatar
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    Although we do not know the full story, but if she was driving away the officer was not in danger. I guess a valid question is was anyone else in danger if she was able to drive away. If that is not the case, then this officer needs to be known as a former officer.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic View Post
    this officer needs to be known as a former officer.
    ... who was formerly alive.
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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Tennessee v. Walker

    A better account is here:

    One dead in shooting on N. East St. in Culpeper
    One person is dead following a shooting involving a Culpeper Town Policeman on North East Street Thursday morning.

    According to Wally Bunker, spokesman for the Town of Culpeper, what happened next is not yet clear and the Virginia State Police are investigating the incident. Bunker said, per standard procedure, the officer involved in the accident has been placed on administrative leave.

    According to witness Kris Buchele, who’s father owns a building directly behind the parking lot, the officer was talking to a person in a green late-model Jeep Wrangler when the driver began to roll up the window and pull away.

    “The officer yelled ‘stop, stop or I’m going to shoot,’” Buchele recalled.

    Buchele described the initial shot as “point blank” and said the officer then fired at least five more shots as the Jeep pulled out of the parking lot and onto North East Street.
    This account appears to be entirely dependent on the eyewitness account, as the victim cannot speak for herself.

    If this account is accurate, it would seem to violate Tennessee v. Garner:
    The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify killing the suspect. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead.

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    I would like to think there is more to this than her driving off, as of right now we dont know what if anything she had in the jeep. To take anothers life is not a light thing, we cannot shoot a man/woman if they are fleeing our home running across are yard, even if they did just break and enter our home and rob us.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    A better account is here:

    One dead in shooting on N. East St. in Culpeper


    This account appears to be entirely dependent on the eyewitness account, as the victim cannot speak for herself.

    If this account is accurate, it would seem to violate Tennessee v. Garner:
    Ahhh the cop has an out, the tennessee v. garner said "Him" this was a female...he can argue that he thought it was ok to shoot girls but not guys...(Sarcasm)

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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    Wow this is a shocking story as it's being reported. It just goes to show you must cooperate in the street 'cause you never know what they're gonna do.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Wow this is a shocking story as it's being reported. It just goes to show you must cooperate in the street 'cause you never know what they're gonna do.
    That's certainly true, no matter what happens, you can't win later in court if you're dead in a Jeep.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    That's certainly true, no matter what happens, you can't win later in court if you're dead in a Jeep.

    TFred

    New catchphrase: You can't win in court if you're dead in a Jeep.

  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Ahhh the cop has an out, the tennessee v. garner said "Him" this was a female...he can argue that he thought it was ok to shoot girls but not guys...(Sarcasm)
    Ah but the use of the masculine gender for the pronoun is correct when the sex of the individual is unknown (classic English). So he would no have that argument.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I wonder why the State Police are investigating?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I wonder why the State Police are investigating?
    Maybe the Town of Culpeper Policice Department does not have an internal affairs division?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  14. #14
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I wonder why the State Police are investigating?
    When you've got witnesses quoted in the newspaper as saying the local LEO took multiple shots at a suspect as they drove AWAY from the officer... I'm kind of thinking you're gonna have to call in someone from outside to clean things up.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I wonder why the State Police are investigating?
    In my State it is routine for a different agency to investigate ANY incident involving an officer. It is explained as to avoid the pitfalls associated with investigating themselves. I don't read anything sinister in this at this point.

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  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Slightly different detail in the witness account for this article, which is probably the version that will be in print in tomorrow morning's paper.

    Lucky this guy didn't kill someone in one of the approaching vehicles.

    TFred

    "When the officer arrived, an altercation occurred. Kris Buchele, a carpenter working in an upstairs room of the apartment house next door, said he heard a loud argument and went to the window to see what was happening.

    "The cop had one hand on the door handle like he was trying to open it," he said. "The driver started to pull away and the officer said, 'Stop or I'll shoot!'

    "Just as the woman got the window rolled up, the cop shot point-blank. I saw the glass bust out. As the Jeep pulled away, [the officer] ran into the street and there were five or six more gunshots," Buchele said.

    Buchele said the Wrangler headed south on East Street, climbed onto the right sidewalk, rolled slowly into a utility pole and stopped. Buchele added that several vehicles were approaching from the south, the direction the Wrangler was heading and the officer was shooting."

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    SNIP Lucky this guy didn't kill someone in one of the approaching vehicles.
    Oh, no. Nobody else was in danger. Small town cops are crack shots even under the pressure of shooting a vehicle moving away from them and driven by someone who was just blasted in the face. Such cops are hardened in the crucibles of Hell even before their Baptism of Fire Vehicle Exhaust.

    Any misses would have to be the fault of the ammo manufacturer for out-of-spec ammo.

    Everybody knows this. Why is it even a question?
    Last edited by Citizen; 02-10-2012 at 01:27 AM.

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    Is there any updates on this story????

  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    There's an updated article on the web page for the Culpeper newspaper. Biased, anti-gun writing at its finest.

    Apparently even when it's the LEOs doing the shooting, it's still lumped in as "gun violence" as if it were an armed robbery or gang bangers.

    Maybe that's not so wrong... it just hit me funny when I read it.

    TFred


    http://www2.starexponent.com/news/20...on-ar-1678540/


    "VSP released no other information Thursday night as speculation abounded around town into what happened. The fatal shooting shattered an otherwise beautiful sunny day in Culpeper where gun violence is relatively uncommon."

  20. #20
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    There's an updated article on the web page for the Culpeper newspaper. Biased, anti-gun writing at its finest.

    Apparently even when it's the LEOs doing the shooting, it's still lumped in as "gun violence" as if it were an armed robbery or gang bangers.

    Maybe that's not so wrong... it just hit me funny when I read it.

    TFred


    http://www2.starexponent.com/news/20...on-ar-1678540/


    "VSP released no other information Thursday night as speculation abounded around town into what happened. The fatal shooting shattered an otherwise beautiful sunny day in Culpeper where gun violence is relatively uncommon."
    I have to wonder how credible the news account is.

    Consider:
    According to the VSP, while attempting to retrieve her identification, Cook suddenly closed her window trapping the officer's arm while she drove away.

    Police said the officer repeatedly commanded Cook to stop but she refused.
    How often do LEOs reach into your vehicle and physically remove your identification papers? That's a hostile intrusion, isn't it?

    And how stupid would it be to drive away with an armed LEO caught in your door? That seems implausible. Also, note how the "witness" account has changed.

    FOIA of the incident report would be very helpful, except the 'secret police' can say no.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Other News reports

    Note in the earlier reports, there is no mention of the officer being dragged. And how does someone "suddenly" roll up a driver's side window? The officer's reflexes ought to have been enough for him to have withdrawn his arm -- unless he was physically assaulting the woman.

    54-Year-Old Woman Patricia Cook Killed in Police Shooting in Culpeper

    Police Investigate Officer Involved Fatal Shooting in Culpeper

  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Also, note how the "witness" account has changed.
    The initial reports from the apparently sole witness to the entire confrontation did quote the man as saying that he saw the LEO had his hand on the door handle. I suppose that could have been the hand that was not caught in the rolled up window though. What we need to know is whether that eyewitness agrees with the VSP account of the story.

    TFred

  23. #23
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Cops have been known to commit murder for far less egregious offenses than "felony" evading.

    I can see the departmental memo now - "All officers be aware that when shooting a suspect you must shoot them in the face, not in the back. That way it looks like they were coming at you. Menacingly."
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  24. #24
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    The initial reports from the apparently sole witness to the entire confrontation did quote the man as saying that he saw the LEO had his hand on the door handle. I suppose that could have been the hand that was not caught in the rolled up window though. What we need to know is whether that eyewitness agrees with the VSP account of the story.

    TFred
    One hand in the window

    One hand on the door handle

    Third hand shooting pistol??????


    A jeeps window is manual, a wrangler doesn't have electric windows....If his arm was so stuck in the window he would have been chasing the jeep with only one arm....two if you count the third one he used to fire his weapon with.

  25. #25
    Regular Member streetdoc's Avatar
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    Per Edmunds, http://www.edmunds.com/jeep/wrangler...tyle=101213730, Jeep Wranglers since 2010 have had power windows as an option or included in some of the packages.
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