• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Culpeper shooting

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Also, note how the "witness" account has changed.
The initial reports from the apparently sole witness to the entire confrontation did quote the man as saying that he saw the LEO had his hand on the door handle. I suppose that could have been the hand that was not caught in the rolled up window though. What we need to know is whether that eyewitness agrees with the VSP account of the story.

TFred
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
Cops have been known to commit murder for far less egregious offenses than "felony" evading.

I can see the departmental memo now - "All officers be aware that when shooting a suspect you must shoot them in the face, not in the back. That way it looks like they were coming at you. Menacingly."
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
The initial reports from the apparently sole witness to the entire confrontation did quote the man as saying that he saw the LEO had his hand on the door handle. I suppose that could have been the hand that was not caught in the rolled up window though. What we need to know is whether that eyewitness agrees with the VSP account of the story.

TFred

One hand in the window

One hand on the door handle

Third hand shooting pistol??????


A jeeps window is manual, a wrangler doesn't have electric windows....If his arm was so stuck in the window he would have been chasing the jeep with only one arm....two if you count the third one he used to fire his weapon with.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
The initial reports from the apparently sole witness to the entire confrontation did quote the man as saying that he saw the LEO had his hand on the door handle. I suppose that could have been the hand that was not caught in the rolled up window though. What we need to know is whether that eyewitness agrees with the VSP account of the story.

TFred

One hand in the window

One hand on the door handle

Third hand shooting pistol??????


A jeeps window is manual, a wrangler doesn't have electric windows....If his arm was so stuck in the window he would have been chasing the jeep with only one arm....two if you count the third one he used to fire his weapon with.
I would assume if that scenario was correct, his left arm could be caught in the window, and he was initially trying to open the door with his right (shooting) hand, and then when the Jeep started to move, he drew and fired, shattering the window, and freeing his left arm.

Don't know if that is what happened, but it seems to be one possible scenario that would match both the initial witness account and the VSP account, without contradicting each other.

TFred
 

coondog22554

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
62
Location
Stafford, VA, ,

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
"Old Fashioned Crank"

Per Edmunds, http://www.edmunds.com/jeep/wrangler/2010/features-specs.html?sub=suv&style=101213730, Jeep Wranglers since 2010 have had power windows as an option or included in some of the packages.

Her husband reveals the truth:

Husband Baffled by Police Shooting of Wife in Culpeper
Pat Cook's husband, Gary, is baffled by the [official police] explanation. Gary Cook said his wife's car had no power windows. "Crank [windows]," Cook explained, "old fashioned crank [windows]."

Culpeper Police have not identified the officer involved in the shooting, other than saying he is a five year veteran of the force. Witnesses have told reporters that the policeman fired his weapon multiple times. That's another puzzling issue to Gary Cook. "Why he would shoot a 54-year-old unarmed woman five or six times? I don't know. I can see shooting once for wounding. You know, to make her stop. But, five or six times?"
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
NBC4 interviewed the eyewitness and the victims husband.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/video/#!/news/top-stories/Officer-Shoots-Woman-in-Culpeper/139126129

The eyewitness said the officers left hand was on the door handle (not in the window as she was rolling it up) and his pistol was in his right hand when he told her to "Stop or I'll shoot".

The victims last run in with the "law" was a traffic ticket in 1979.

:(

Then let's be clear: if the cop had his hand on the door handle, and his arm was not trapped by the door window, then his life was not in imminent danger. He had no lawful authority to discharge his weapon.
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Eyewitness is contradicting the State Police version

This is damning: please read and discuss this:

An eyewitness to a fatal police shooting in Culpeper, Virginia is contradicting the State Police version of the story
State police say Cook rolled up the window, catching the officer's arm inside, and then dragged him.

Kris Buchele says it didn't happen that way. He describes an encounter which looked and sounded like the officer shooting a person a point blank range, not because he feared for his life, but because the woman did not obey his order to stop rolling up the window.

"He was right next to the vehicle. He had one hand on the door handle and one hand on his weapon. And she was rolling the window up. And they were exiting out of the parkng lot.

The window was half way up he said 'stop or I'll shoot.' I really didn't think he was going to do it. But she got the window all the way up and that's when he shot. And then she took a left out of the parking lot here and he stepped out in the street and fired five more times," said Buchele.

Buchele says the officer was not dragged and that he shot her before she drove away. He says he didn't have his arm caught because the officer's left hand was on the door handle and right hand was holding a weapon. Also, he says he distinctly saw her roll up the window all the way before the officer shot out the glass and killed her.

"I'm angry, frustrated, sad, and fighting back tears right now, " said Gary Cook, Pat's husband of eight years. He doesn't understand why a police officer would shoot his unarmed wife multiple times.

"Personally I think it may be an overreaction, maybe excessive force, but I can only surmise that," Cook said.

Cook says he doesn't know why his wife was in the parking lot of the Epiphany Catholic School. Their couple's pastor at Culpeper United Methodist Church thinks she may have been there searching for work with children because she loved her volunteer role teaching Sunday school at their church.


Gary Cook is filled with questions along with grief over his wife's killing. He is contacting an attorney to pursue possible legal action.

No charges have been filed. The Virginia State Police are investigating with the assistance of Culpeper Police and the Culpeper Sheriff's Department.

Virginia State Police say that the police officer had his arm caught in her driver's side window, and was dragged alongside the vehicle as she drove away.

According to Virginia State Police, at approximately 10 a.m. Thursday, Culpeper Police got a call about a suspicious women sitting in a Jeep Wrangler in a church parking lot in the 300 block of North East Street. The officer started talking to Patricia A. Cook, 54, of Culpeper. State police say that for some reason, while the officer was trying to get her identification, Cook "suddenly closed her driver's side window trapping the officer's arm and started driving away dragging the officer alongside."

Police say the officer repeatedly asked her to stop but the car kept going. Then shots were fired, and the Jeep wrecked in the 200 block of North East Street.

Cook was shot by the officer and died at the scene.

Her remains have been transported to the Office of the Medical Examiner in Manassas for examination and autopsy, police said.

"The Culpeper Town Police and Culpeper County Sheriff's Office are assisting State Police with the ongoing investigation," police said.

[size=+3]Someone is Lying![/size]
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
How 'bout sending the Culpeper police an email.

"There's someone in the parking lot of a church and I don't know what they're doing but they're just sitting there. Oh wait, it's a really elderly woman. Can you send the officer who shot that lady the other day. I just know he'll know what to do."

If the Virginia State Police whitewash this one, they are going to lose a lot of respect from their bosses (read that as the citizens). While I am trying to resist the temptation to jump to any conclusions, this thing just smells rotten to the core.
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
There are several mysterious elements.

a) why was the woman attempting to drive off if she was stopped in a Church parking lot? Was she raging or was the officer over the top in his demands?
b) why did she feel the need to roll up the window? You don't need the window up to drive off and if you are upset or frightened you usually drive off first.
c) why did the officer feel the need to shoot the first time? To break the glass to free his (allegedly) trapped arm?
d) why did the police (afaik) say she rolled up the window on his arm? It belies logic, since she had a hand cranked window and the officer would have had his shooting arm in the window in most scenarios. Sounds like they're looking for excuses that will fly.
e) why did the officer feel the need to shoot five more times? This makes NO sense. It's clear you don't keep shooting due to danger to others.
f) where did the shots go (collateral damage?)
g) how will the police cover this up (and they will try to).
 

riverrat10k

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,472
Location
on a rock in the james river
""I'm angry, frustrated, sad, and fighting back tears right now, " said Gary Cook, Pat's husband of eight years. He doesn't understand why a police officer would shoot his unarmed wife multiple times."

Wonder where the "unarmed" info came from. Paraphrasing the husbands statement? So sad.


Wonder what HankT would say?
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Oh well, if he doesn't get much time he can come to work for Hanover.
He's their kind of cop!
 

sawah

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Messages
436
Location
Virginia
What troubles me is the SP are already reporting this 'arm caught in window' alibi as truth.

The Culpeper woman fatally shot by a local police officer Thursday morning had closed her driver's side window and was dragging the officer alongside her as she drove away, according to new information from the Virginia State Police.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
The eyewitness said, paraphrased by the reporter: "Also, he says he distinctly saw her roll up the window all the way before the officer shot out the glass and killed her."

You can't have an arm caught in a window that was all the way rolled up. If there was any integrity at all in this investigation, the state of the drivers side window should have been recorded and preserved with accountability. Was it all the way up, or was it up far enough to have lodged a man's arm in between the top of the glass and the door frame?

This is not rocket science, if the woman was shot in the head with the first shot (and the autopsy should reveal that), she obviously was not able to roll the window up as the car rolled away (and the LEO's arm had been freed).

Or... is the eyewitness looking for publicity or does he have a grudge against the officer or the CPD?

This is a mess.

TFred
 

MamabearCali

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
335
Location
Chesterfield
Oh no! This is not looking good. The hand crank is a really bad thing for the police officer. There is no way she surprised him and rolled his arm into the window. Makes me sad, nauseous, and angry all at the same time. I try to give LEO's the benefit of the doubt, but between the witnesses the door crank and the follow up shots this looks terrible. It is starting to look like a shooting for contempt of police officer. Bad, BAD, BAD!! For Everyone.
 
Top