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Thread: Open Carry incident with police today, Tukwila

  1. #1
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    Open Carry incident with police today, Tukwila

    This is not me or anyone I know.

    About 1455 today Tukwila PD is dispatched to an Open Carry incident at the Ross store, 17622 Southcenter Pkwy. RP reports man in the store wearing a holstered gun. Officer asks if this is an “open carry.” Dispatcher answers yes. Also reported is that the RP is retired law enforcement, and is “uncomfortable”, even with the knowledge that Washington is an open carry state.

    RP thinks man with gun may be high or drunk because his face is flushed. Man with gun is at some point in the dressing room.

    Officer enroute asks if Ross wants the MWG trespassed. It’s then that it’s made clear that the RP is not a Ross employee. Dispatcher calls the store, employees are not aware of the MWG.

    Officers contact the MWG and run his name. He has a suspended driver’s license. He was born in 1980.

    The officers clear the call with a code of T, which means Settled by Contact.

    That’s all the information I can share.

  2. #2
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    What! He wasn't shot! or arrested! or any other terrible thing so many feel will occur lol.

    From your post it seems likely there would not have been any contact if it was not for the report of possibly being high or drunk.
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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    David,
    Let's not forget that the RP was a "retired" Law Enforcement officer, who clearly knew that it is legal in the state of WA to open carry.

    He purposefully upped the perceived danger of the open carrier by stating that the OC's face was flushed and because of that he "felt" he "might" be drunk or high. Thereby escalating an encounter from a simple MWAG, to a "dangerous" MWAG, and guaranteeing a contact with the Officer responding.

    Absolutely inexcusable.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    OGSW, No Doubt.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Officers contact the MWG and run his name. He has a suspended driver’s license. He was born in 1980.
    What was the RAS of a CRIME?
    Having a flushed face without any further information is nothing, as such this was not a valid terry stop and the OCers rights were violated.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  6. #6
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    His rights were not violated. The police asked and he must have volunteered his information to them so they could run his name. They must have asked him for ID, at which point he should have said, " Am I being detatined? " and ended the encounter. Just like any of us would have done. Maybe the guy is a bit newer to OC'ing and needs a little more education about how to handle a police stop.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    His rights were not violated. The police asked and he must have volunteered his information to them so they could run his name. They must have asked him for ID, at which point he should have said, " Am I being detatined? " and ended the encounter. Just like any of us would have done. Maybe the guy is a bit newer to OC'ing and needs a little more education about how to handle a police stop.

    I have been having a new thought,,,
    about the whole idea of,,,, am i being detained?,,, am i free to go?,,, what is your RAS?...

    I have been concidering that, at first contact...
    asking to be MIRANDIZED!!!

    they would probably get caught off guard,, sputter that, that is not necessary since i am not arrested, or anything..
    when i hear that, i would announce that i was leaving, and gently, carefully walk away.

    maybe then, they would forcefully detain me,,, maybe not...
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I have been having a new thought,,,
    about the whole idea of,,,, am i being detained?,,, am i free to go?,,, what is your RAS?...

    I have been concidering that, at first contact...
    asking to be MIRANDIZED!!!

    they would probably get caught off guard,, sputter that, that is not necessary since i am not arrested, or anything..
    when i hear that, i would announce that i was leaving, and gently, carefully walk away.

    maybe then, they would forcefully detain me,,, maybe not...

    You folks are aware that the cops can talk with you for hours without ever violating your Mranda/Edwards rights, aren't you? Those things only apply with respect to custodial interrogations. Asking you for ID information is not considered an interrogation. Neither is talking about the weather, or last night's big game, or the price of tea in China - all of which cops may engage in to see if your behavior will suggest that they press further towards thinking you are about to commit, are committing, or have committed a crime.

    I suggest that you tell the nice officer that you do not wish to speak with him and that you desire that he stop annoying you. If he persists, call 9-1-1 to report someone verbally and (possibly) physically assaulting you.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    OC - Am I being arrested or detained?

    PD - No

    OC - then you are free to go.

    Looks like if you are sick (flushed looking), just comming from the tanning booth (flushed looking), or natually pale (flushed looking), then you may have a drug or alcohol problem....
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  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Interesting find and glad no one was hurt wonder if he reads or is on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You folks are aware that the cops can talk with you for hours without ever violating your Mranda/Edwards rights, aren't you? Those things only apply with respect to custodial interrogations. Asking you for ID information is not considered an interrogation. Neither is talking about the weather, or last night's big game, or the price of tea in China - all of which cops may engage in to see if your behavior will suggest that they press further towards thinking you are about to commit, are committing, or have committed a crime.

    I suggest that you tell the nice officer that you do not wish to speak with him and that you desire that he stop annoying you. If he persists, call 9-1-1 to report someone verbally and (possibly) physically assaulting you.

    stay safe.

    While I agree, I think Defender's point was to put the burden and the type of encounter immediately on Mr. Officer. I have simply and politely walked away from a few encounters said a salutation and left. A few times I was detained and was never given RAS but knew it wouldn't end well for me if I turned my back on those officers and walked away. Especially when they they start the contact with a gun pointed at your head. And then I hear that misused excuse of if I don't ID myself I will be arrested and jailed for "obstructing justice". Sometimes it's just harder to walk away. Oh and when I went to file a complaint I was arrested again, and denied any ability to file a complaint. Yep arrested for trying to file a complaint.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Dean did you hear this on the scanner?

    OC "officer I do not consent to this encounter"
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    So, basically nothing happened.

    Sent by Droid

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    So, basically nothing happened.

    Sent by Droid
    An OC story happened, and someone consented to a search by Mr. officer.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Dean did you hear this on the scanner?


    Something like that.

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    An OC story happened, and someone consented to a search by Mr. officer.
    Their choice to id themselves and still, nothing happened that we know of since this is just scanner, 2nd hand information.

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    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Oh and when I went to file a complaint I was arrested again, and denied any ability to file a complaint. Yep arrested for trying to file a complaint.
    Wow. Never knew this level of misconduct was so widespread... Now I'm paranoid



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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    The "ritired" officer that called 911 to report a "Drunk" MWAG should be charged with abusing the 911 system. Sociaty needs to come up with a penalty for crying wolf just because they feel uncomfortable. How about charging the person calling with the bill for the time, gas, and expense related to the response to the bogus calls just because they are uncomfortable with someone expressing their Constitutional rights.

    Sorry this just pisses me off.

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Their choice to id themselves and still, nothing happened that we know of since this is just scanner, 2nd hand information.
    Stretch,
    You are either naive, or just don't understand the system and what can happen.
    "Just a scanner".........good grief. With all due respect, you clearly don't work in the 911 system.

    The retired officer knew exactly what he was doing when he used his choice of words. And it could have turned out much differently.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

  19. #19
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlGutshotWilly View Post
    Stretch,
    You are either naive, or just don't understand the system and what can happen.
    "Just a scanner".........good grief. With all due respect, you clearly don't work in the 911 system.

    The retired officer knew exactly what he was doing when he used his choice of words. And it could have turned out much differently.

    Gutshot, how about neither. This thread is based on what the OP heard, via scanner. Nobody here can report what happened because none were there. That is my point.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    This is not me or anyone I know.
    That’s all the information I can share.
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Dean did you hear this on the scanner?

    OC "officer I do not consent to this encounter"
    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Something like that.[/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Their choice to id themselves and still, nothing happened that we know of since this is just scanner, 2nd hand information.
    deanf's profile reveals he works as a firefighter.

    So it was probably more secure lines than the public scanner.

    dean...if you would be interested in reaching out to me, I would like to know more. This can be done in confidence.
    Live Free or Die!

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    The only things I didn't reveal are people's names and full dates of birth, which actually did go out over the public airwaves, or are otherwise publicly available records. There is nothing else to share.

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    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    Sounds like the "retired" police officer knew some tips of the trade(See http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2012/02/...en-encounters/ for a good explaination).

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    The only things I didn't reveal are people's names and full dates of birth, which actually did go out over the public airwaves, or are otherwise publicly available records. There is nothing else to share.
    Roger that. Interestingly enough I did some Christmas shopping at that Ross in December as well as in Federal Way and even remembering nodding at security as I left the building. Maybe some more shopping at Ross is in order soon.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    deanf's profile reveals he works as a firefighter.

    So it was probably more secure lines than the public scanner.

    dean...if you would be interested in reaching out to me, I would like to know more. This can be done in confidence.
    My point, exactly.


    Those of us in the business have much more direct ways of listening to or watching the communications than what has been referred to as a "Scanner". Coming from Dean, I have no doubt that this played out exactly as reported.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    Sounds like the "retired" police officer knew some tips of the trade(See http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2012/02/...en-encounters/ for a good explaination).
    It is like going to the Emergency Room, if there is a 5 hour wait just tell them you are having chest pain and you will be moved to the front of the line. I don't care if isn't due to a carciac problem. It is all in the choice of words.

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