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Thread: Transportation and open carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Transportation and open carry

    We all know the laws of how to transport a gun. For non cpl holders its in the trunk. So would it be legal to drive to your local store which isnt on the list of lawful locations, open the trunk and strap your gun on and open carry it. Could an officer arrest you for unlawful transportation?

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    We all know the laws of how to transport a gun. For non cpl holders its in the trunk. So would it be legal to drive to your local store which isnt on the list of lawful locations, open the trunk and strap your gun on and open carry it. Could an officer arrest you for unlawful transportation?
    I am slightly confused by your question. The law requires the gun to be transported as prescribed by this law (if it's a pistol and you do not have a CPL).
    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of
    the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    If you are not on the premises of any places listed under 750.234d or a school you can lawfully OC without a CPL. You can transport the pistol as prescribed above and then "load up" when you get to the location. It is a good idea to take the entire gun case out of the trunk and then load it. I hope this answers your question.

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    We all know the laws of how to transport a gun. For non cpl holders its in the trunk. So would it be legal to drive to your local store which isnt on the list of lawful locations, open the trunk and strap your gun on and open carry it. Could an officer arrest you for unlawful transportation?
    Welcome to OCDO!
    Well in short yes it is legal as long as the store does not have a license to sell any alcohol, your not even allowed to carry in the parking lot. Some of the OCers here do not have a CPL and will go to meet and eats and such, transport legally and strap on when arriving at meeting place with no problems.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i think his question is about the "any lawful purpose" bit. and yes, self defense is another lawful purpose. people get hung up on the physical locations, like hunting, gun repair, or shooting range. but the truth is anywhere you go with your gun that is a legal place for you to posses it is considered a lawful purpose:
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf
    "(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:
    (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
    (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.
    (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.
    (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of
    having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.
    (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or
    sale.
    (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge
    of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used
    as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance."


    just because it says "includes the following" does not exclude other activities
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 02-10-2012 at 05:47 AM.
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    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the information. I was thinking that the locations provided by the MSP were the only place that you could travel to if you did not have a cpl. Again thanks for clearing that up makes more sence to me now.
    Last edited by GlockIt; 02-10-2012 at 11:28 AM.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quarter horseman View Post
    Welcome to OCDO!
    Well in short yes it is legal as long as the store does not have a license to sell any alcohol, your not even allowed to carry in the parking lot. Some of the OCers here do not have a CPL and will go to meet and eats and such, transport legally and strap on when arriving at meeting place with no problems.
    If an establishment has a liquor license, whether they sell/serve alcohol or not, it is illegal for a person to possess a firearm on the "premises".

    "Possess" means to have it and "premises" means the entire property. And that means it is illegal for a person who does not have a CPL to have a gun, even locked in the trunk of his/her car, anywhere on that property ... including the parking lot.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vsx...e=mcl-750-234d

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    -snip-
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    -snip-
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    -snip-



    Now a word of caution for OC'ing without a CPL...

    When transitioning from "transporting" to "carrying" be very careful to do ALL handling of the gun itself OUTSIDE the confines of the vehicle. DO NOT handle the gun inside the trunk trying to hide what you are doing from folks in fear of scaring them. Also .. do not lean back into the vehicle to get a hat or anything and have the gun now on your hip go inside the car.... because unless transporting..... without a CPL it is illegal to possess a pistol inside a vehicle....

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(oxd...me=mcl-750-227

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931


    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.

    Sec. 227.

    -snip-

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    -snip-

    So, without a CPL, the only legal way to transition from "transporting" to "carrying" is to take the gun completely out of the vehicle still in the case and then handle it.

    And be sure to reverse the process when transitioning from "carry" to "transport".
    Last edited by Bikenut; 02-10-2012 at 11:49 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  7. #7
    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Thanks Bike Nut your post has givin me more much needed information as im new to the Open Carry concept.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I know a person who got popped for sitting down in his car while taking his gun off. Serious stuff. They cut him a break on the charge -- he got away with a misdemeanor versus felony CCW. Still, he can't get his CPL for a number of years because of it
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    I drive a ford explorer. Would leaning into the rear be considered entering the vechicle? If so then wouldnt I have to keep my gun case outside of the vechicle in order to recase it,as to not violate any laws?

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    I drive a ford explorer. Would leaning into the rear be considered entering the vechicle? If so then wouldnt I have to keep my gun case outside of the vechicle in order to recase it,as to not violate any laws?
    I drive an SUV as well. I keep it all the way in the back and when I load up I take the gun case all the way out of the vehicle and open it up and take the gun out all completely outside the vehicle. Yes it would be easier if I could set it down on the vehicle then take the gun out but they could try to charge me with CCW so I don't take the risk.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    I drive an SUV as well. I keep it all the way in the back and when I load up I take the gun case all the way out of the vehicle and open it up and take the gun out all completely outside the vehicle. Yes it would be easier if I could set it down on the vehicle then take the gun out but they could try to charge me with CCW so I don't take the risk.
    What about puting the gun back in the case, wouldnt reaching in to grab your case count has concealment since technically your entering the vehicle?

  12. #12
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    What about puting the gun back in the case, wouldnt reaching in to grab your case count has concealment since technically your entering the vehicle?
    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person
    I am not a lawyer but in my opinion if you reach your arm into your vehicle to grab the case you're good. If you go all the way INto the vehicle then you would be violating 750.227. I keep the case close to the trunk/back door so I don't have to go reaching in to get the case.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    I drive a ford explorer. Would leaning into the rear be considered entering the vechicle? If so then wouldnt I have to keep my gun case outside of the vechicle in order to recase it,as to not violate any laws?
    Without a CPL....

    If that gun crosses the line from "outside" to "inside" the vehicle while you are wearing it or have it in your hand... or I suspect even if you have it still in the case but the case is open (not sure of that one, I'm not an attorney, but I wouldn't take the chance)... then you would be in violation of the law.

    Bottom line... leave it inside the closed case then take the case completely out of the vehicle even if you have to set the case on the ground.... remove gun and load and holster it in plain view.. then make absolutely sure the gun doesn't break that "outside/inside" line when you put the empty case back into the vehicle.

    And make sure to do the process exactly in reverse when putting the gun back in the vehicle.

    Yes it is a lot of gun handling right out where God and all creation can see you (and please please please!!!!!! be careful when loading/unloading!!!!!!! be anally retentive please!!!) but it is the only way to be legal.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Without a CPL....

    If that gun crosses the line from "outside" to "inside" the vehicle while you are wearing it or have it in your hand... or I suspect even if you have it still in the case but the case is open (not sure of that one, I'm not an attorney, but I wouldn't take the chance)... then you would be in violation of the law.

    Bottom line... leave it inside the closed case then take the case completely out of the vehicle even if you have to set the case on the ground.... remove gun and load and holster it in plain view.. then make absolutely sure the gun doesn't break that "outside/inside" line when you put the empty case back into the vehicle.

    And make sure to do the process exactly in reverse when putting the gun back in the vehicle.

    Yes it is a lot of gun handling right out where God and all creation can see you (and please please please!!!!!! be careful when loading/unloading!!!!!!! be anally retentive please!!!) but it is the only way to be legal.
    Good info thanks alot.
    Id rather look at my ugly Glock than shoot your fancy S&W.

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    They need to either A. Repeal 227 and 231a, or B. re-word something so that you just couldnt possess the gun while the vehicle was moving. That way, you could case and uncase while sitting down with the doors locked. The way the laws are now, someone could just wait for you to take the bullets out, whack you upside the head, and theres another illegal gun out on the street in the hands of a real criminal.

  16. #16
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by quarter horseman
    Welcome to OCDO!
    Well in short yes it is legal as long as the store does not have a license to sell any alcohol, your not even allowed to carry in the parking lot. Some of the OCers here do not have a CPL and will go to meet and eats and such, transport legally and strap on when arriving at meeting place with no problems.




    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    If an establishment has a liquor license, whether they sell/serve alcohol or not, it is illegal for a person to possess a firearm on the "premises".

    "Possess" means to have it and "premises" means the entire property. And that means it is illegal for a person who does not have a CPL to have a gun, even locked in the trunk of his/her car, anywhere on that property ... including the parking lot.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vsx...e=mcl-750-234d

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d.
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    -snip-
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    -snip-
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    -snip-



    Now a word of caution for OC'ing without a CPL...

    When transitioning from "transporting" to "carrying" be very careful to do ALL handling of the gun itself OUTSIDE the confines of the vehicle. DO NOT handle the gun inside the trunk trying to hide what you are doing from folks in fear of scaring them. Also .. do not lean back into the vehicle to get a hat or anything and have the gun now on your hip go inside the car.... because unless transporting..... without a CPL it is illegal to possess a pistol inside a vehicle....

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(oxd...me=mcl-750-227

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931


    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.

    Sec. 227.

    -snip-

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    -snip-

    So, without a CPL, the only legal way to transition from "transporting" to "carrying" is to take the gun completely out of the vehicle still in the case and then handle it.

    And be sure to reverse the process when transitioning from "carry" to "transport".


    Are you schooling me?
    Last edited by quarter horseman; 02-13-2012 at 06:39 AM.

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    Regular Member Mahnarch's Avatar
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    These little "gotcha" laws are ********.

    Something as simple as a "carpet line" can mean the difference between "legal" and "20 years"* is ********.


    We need more common sense reps and senators, both in the Michigan and US Congress.


    [I purposely spelled "reps" and "senators" in lower case because they are all balless pussies and/or democrats who are high on their speedballs or ...highballs....I'm not sure what democrats take because I'm not a hippy.]


    [EDIT: W*** T** F***???!!!! We ar* on a G** D*** G** Foru* and we c*n't s** B**S**T?!]


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    Last edited by Mahnarch; 09-16-2012 at 01:13 AM. Reason: I added some profanity. For ambiance...

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    your local store which isnt on the list of lawful locations
    smellslike... nailed it (emphasis in his post is mine).

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i think his question is about the "any lawful purpose" bit. and yes, self defense is another lawful purpose. people get hung up on the physical locations, like hunting, gun repair, or shooting range. but the truth is anywhere you go with your gun that is a legal place for you to posses it is considered a lawful purpose:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf

    "(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:

    ...

    just because it says "includes the following" does not exclude other activities
    Expresio unius est exclusio alterius ("the express mention of one thing excludes all others")

    Items not on the list are assumed not to be covered by the statute. However, sometimes a list in a statute is illustrative, not exclusionary. This is usually indicated by a word such as "includes" or "such as".
    Bronson
    Last edited by Bronson; 09-16-2012 at 02:37 AM.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    im new to the Open Carry concept.
    One of the first things we all learn is, whenever possible, go read the law directly instead of somebody else's interpretation of the law....even the MSP.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    the locations provided by the MSP
    Like in this case, the MSP doesn't provide the list of examples that are lawful, the legislature did. We have found other examples in the past where the MSP website leaves out crucial information in their synopses of the laws. Like I said earlier, whenever possible go to the law directly.

    Here's a link where you can do a key word search of all MI laws.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(14n...aspx?page=home

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Personally, I think the part about not being able to OC in your own vehicle needs to be fixed. There are other states where OC IN a vehicle is perfectly legal. All this crap about having to load and unload, holster and unholster just so we an walk around with our weapons is complete nonsense.

    I have my CPL, so I'm not worried about myself. But I feel for my fellow Michiganders who, for whatever reasons, don't or can't get a CPL, They should not have to go through all this crap just to exercise their God-given rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Personally, I think the part about not being able to OC in your own vehicle needs to be fixed. There are other states where OC IN a vehicle is perfectly legal. All this crap about having to load and unload, holster and unholster just so we an walk around with our weapons is complete nonsense.

    I have my CPL, so I'm not worried about myself. But I feel for my fellow Michiganders who, for whatever reasons, don't or can't get a CPL, They should not have to go through all this crap just to exercise their God-given rights.
    We are working on it. Its a little iffy, but right now we have a good opportunity in front of us, and we should make the most of it.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Rick H's Avatar
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    Moving back Michigan after 12 years.

    I have just learned I have to move back to Michigan after 12 years in Florida and don't know laws there yet.
    1st. I have my Fl. CCW.
    2nd. I'm planning to read up on the Mi. laws, but that takes time to learn all the laws.
    3rd. Just need a couple things of info to start with.
    a.) With a ccw can I car carry open or concealed?
    b.) Am I allowed in/on a place/property of business that sell booze?
    c.) I know that I must inform LEO when stopped during traffic stop, Must I even inform when stopped during a walk, bike ride?
    d.) What other thing as a quick reference should I know?
    e.) Do I need to get a Mi. ccw or will my Fl. license be allowed?
    f.) How long do I have before I have to register my firearm? and whats involved?

    Again I am reading the laws but I'm a slow learner......LOL
    Last edited by Rick H; 02-14-2013 at 02:19 PM. Reason: I should have started a new thread
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  23. #23
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick H View Post
    I have just learned I have to move back to Michigan after 12 years in Florida and don't know laws there yet.
    1st. I have my Fl. CCW.
    2nd. I'm planning to read up on the Mi. laws, but that takes time to learn all the laws.
    3rd. Just need a couple things of info to start with.
    a.) With a ccw can I car carry open or concealed?
    Yes, with CPL, you can OC in your car, though it is technically considered CC even with it open while in a car.
    b.) Am I allowed in/on a place/property of business that sell booze?
    As long as you have your CPL you are good to go. If it is a bar (establishment that does the majority of it's business via selling liquor by the glass) then you can't CC there but can OC as long as you're not asked to leave because of private property.
    c.) I know that I must inform LEO when stopped during traffic stop, Must I even inform when stopped during a walk, bike ride?
    This one will get a lot of contention. IF you are walking around OCing, you don't necessarily need to disclose. If you are driving you should disclose because technically you are CCing. If you are on a bike it's gray area, but I think personally I would disclose if stopped on a bike.
    d.) What other thing as a quick reference should I know?
    Take a look at www.miopencarry.org for more information.
    e.) Do I need to get a Mi. ccw or will my Fl. license be allowed?
    If you are living here you should get a MI CPL, but I believe that your florida one will suffice in the mean time. If you are no longer a resident of florida, you may have to get a FL non-resident permit.
    f.) How long do I have before I have to register my firearm? and whats involved?
    If you are going to be living in michigan, you must visit the local police station and get a purchase permit to register pistols. You do not need to register long guns. If you get a Mi CPL you will be able to fill out a form Ri-60 and mail it in to register. If you are going to live here perm. you need to register. Time frame, I do not know.

    Again I am reading the laws but I'm a slow learner......LOL


    Answered above in bold.


    Hope that helps.... I am not a lawyer.
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 02-14-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Transportation and open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i think his question is about the "any lawful purpose" bit. and yes, self defense is another lawful purpose. people get hung up on the physical locations, like hunting, gun repair, or shooting range. but the truth is anywhere you go with your gun that is a legal place for you to posses it is considered a lawful purpose:
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf
    "(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:
    (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
    (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.
    (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.
    (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of
    having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.
    (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or
    sale.
    (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge
    of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used
    as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance."


    just because it says "includes the following" does not exclude other activities
    Actually, a bill passed last session eliminates the lawful purpose definition. See Act 427 of 2012, effective 12/21/2012
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Actually, a bill passed last session eliminates the lawful purpose definition. See Act 427 of 2012, effective 12/21/2012
    So you can legally transport for the porpose of OC only, is that right ? I just have to make sure. I don't want to break laws.

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