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Thread: What has changed with State Law regarding Pistol Purchase Permits

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    What has changed with State Law regarding Pistol Purchase Permits

    In October 2008 and again in October of 2009 I obtained pistol purchase permits from the City of Grand Rapids PD. I took the test, did the paperwork, had them run the background check, and in each case 15-20 minutes later I was issued the purchase permit on the spot.

    Last week I attempted to obtain one at the same PD from the exact same lady that helped the last two times and about 15 minutes into the process she says " I know we have issued pistol purchase permits before, but some things have changed and your record shows some arrests without anymore notes and that has to be reviewed which normally takes 3-5 days, but my supervisor is out so it will take longer than 5 days." she gave me a phone number and reference number to call back to check the status. I asked if the arrests were from 1991 and she confirmed that they were from 1991 and 1992 which I let her know were arrests for what was a minor in possession of Alcohol and I believe it was a civil infraction not even a misdeamonor. She apologized but said that I had to call back.

    I am wondering if this is a change in State Law or with the Police Department Policy. Is anybody aware of any changes in State law in this regard since October of 2009? you would think that under Snyder policy would be more friendly towards gun owner rights.

    Also, since I haven't kept up with changes to Open Carry Legislation since I researched a few years ago, has there been any changes that I should be aware when I open carry? I still open carry occasionally and have never had any problems but I would hate to find out it was outlawed by a cop when I am in the back of his Patrol Car.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    GRPD are fascists. Plain and simple.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemperFi7 View Post
    you would think that under Snyder policy would be more friendly towards gun owner rights.

    .
    what in the world would give you that impression? rick has not done jack for gun rights since being elected, hell he may even be holding us back.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    what in the world would give you that impression? rick has not done jack for gun rights since being elected, hell he may even be holding us back.
    Did you think he seeing people like yourself that want to take away gun rights from people, and thinks that is what the public wants?

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Did you think he seeing people like yourself that want to take away gun rights from people, and thinks that is what the public wants?
    What?
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    What?
    The only bills that have seen any movement recently were SB 760-762 which if they do not pass remove ZERO rights from anybody, if they do pass ALL CPL holders will lose.
    If you remember the threads on that subject, many who claim to be for gun rights (including yourself) supported that bill, so could it be that the governor is seeing that gun owners are in favor of CPL holders losing rights and giving them what he thinks they want?

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    The only bills that have seen any movement recently were SB 760-762 which if they do not pass remove ZERO rights from anybody, if they do pass ALL CPL holders will lose.
    If you remember the threads on that subject, many who claim to be for gun rights (including yourself) supported that bill, so could it be that the governor is seeing that gun owners are in favor of CPL holders losing rights and giving them what he thinks they want?
    your obsession with me is getting a little creepy and you need to stop. i disagree with you on 1 bill so you follow me around in threads and bash me? all i ever do is try to help people that have questions and participate in the discussions. if you can't handle the fact that i have a different opinion than you on 1 bill then that's your problem.

    I support full constitutional carry with no pfz's, no background checks, no registration, full auto legal to anyone with no NFA paperwork BS, and the repeal of almost every gun law currently on the books, so to say i support taking away gun rights either means you are delusional, or you have a completely different definition of gun rights than me. either way i don't care, just leave me alone and do your own thing like an adult.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    so to say i support taking away gun rights either means you are delusional, or you have a completely different definition of gun rights than me.
    Would you like I should quote you saying you are FOR SB 760-762? Those bills remove rights from CPL holders. So lets recap; the bills remove rights, you support the bills, so that equals?
    I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that. If a person can do something one day then they can not the next does that not mean they lost something?

    Now in this thread you say "the governor hasn't done jack for gun rights", am I wrong when I say he might think he is doing what you want?

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Can't we all just get along? Minus some debate, are we not all for civil rights/freedom? Just saying....
    Errrrgsfghhhhghyhjbjijjhggyugyghhjmvklvgrewdrqttgy yhhyhj
    Ppooiiiuuuuuuuuuuuuuutfdeddrr
    Rtguscdcdcfffzxddrrfttgggygybhyuu
    Ftttgttttgyggggggtggfrwwvbhjukiiolpfrwwwwqertygfhu jikkiuuuuuyhdhyhjjjjll
    Dygfttttttgyyyyyttytygghj
    Rtgggthqtwqsfffgbhhhuhjjuukiiiikiikkikolo,
    Uyyyyuuuuukkkmk
    Jhuuuii
    Drutyyyyhhyuuuyuihuuuuu
    Ttyuuuuuuuiiuiiuujkngfrrhkop.lgre.

    PS - feeding on one another makes about as much sense as the lines of gibberish typed above by my three year old
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Snyder is my observation is a Corporate Socialist and far from a Conservative or Constitutionalists. And socialists are far from Gun rights advocates or pro constitution. yes they may pay lip service to get your vote or support. but that's about all you will see from them.

    If he is pro gun he better man up and put his actions where his mouth is because I will support any reasonable candidate who wishes to remove him from office. I am tired of all mouth no action politicians like Romney the socialist.

    Too bad we don't have a Ted Nugent mentality running for the state of Michigan in the next election.

    As far as the accusations maybe one should prove their case with actual quotes and not just accusations. But on the other hand why attack someone for no reason Super trucker?
    Last edited by alphamale; 02-15-2012 at 08:08 AM.

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    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Can't we all just get along? Minus some debate, are we not all for civil rights/freedom? Just saying....
    Errrrgsfghhhhghyhjbjijjhggyugyghhjmvklvgrewdrqttgy yhhyhj
    Ppooiiiuuuuuuuuuuuuuutfdeddrr
    Rtguscdcdcfffzxddrrfttgggygybhyuu
    Ftttgttttgyggggggtggfrwwvbhjukiiolpfrwwwwqertygfhu jikkiuuuuuyhdhyhjjjjll
    Dygfttttttgyyyyyttytygghj
    Rtgggthqtwqsfffgbhhhuhjjuukiiiikiikkikolo,
    Uyyyyuuuuukkkmk
    Jhuuuii
    Drutyyyyhhyuuuyuihuuuuu
    Ttyuuuuuuuiiuiiuujkngfrrhkop.lgre.

    PS - feeding on one another makes about as much sense as the lines of gibberish typed above by my three year old

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    I think you are being way too kind to them. I could describe Grand rapids PD from what I know, but I can't use that king of language on this site, and mind you I have never been arrested, or even got a ticket.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    GRPD are fascists. Plain and simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
    Snyder is my observation is a Corporate Socialist and far from a Conservative or Constitutionalists. And socialists are far from Gun rights advocates or pro constitution. yes they may pay lip service to get your vote or support. but that's about all you will see from them.

    If he is pro gun he better man up and put his actions where his mouth is because I will support any reasonable candidate who wishes to remove him from office. I am tired of all mouth no action politicians like Romney the socialist.

    Too bad we don't have a Ted Nugent mentality running for the state of Michigan in the next election.

    As far as the accusations maybe one should prove their case with actual quotes and not just accusations. But on the other hand why attack someone for no reason Super trucker?

    Actual quotes sent in via pm.
    Last edited by Super Trucker; 02-15-2012 at 10:30 AM.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphamale View Post

    But on the other hand why attack someone for no reason Super trucker?
    because i dared to disagree with him on 1 bill. a bill that would eliminate a whole class of weapons from registration. a bill that would put us in line with federal definitions. a bill that would allow people in this state to purchase more weapons without a permission slip. he completely overlooks the fact that i also said i support allowing loaded long gun carry (to anyone, not just special people like him with a cpl) to help offset anything we would lose from that bill.

    i was also one of many that supported that bill, but for some reason he only feels the need to be obsessed with me and it's creeping me out. one would think an adult could have a disagreement with someone just let it go instead of following him around in threads and bashing him but i guess not.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    because i dared to disagree with him on 1 bill. a bill that would eliminate a whole class of weapons from registration. a bill that would put us in line with federal definitions. a bill that would allow people in this state to purchase more weapons without a permission slip. he completely overlooks the fact that i also said i support allowing loaded long gun carry (to anyone, not just special people like him with a cpl) to help offset anything we would lose from that bill.

    i was also one of many that supported that bill, but for some reason he only feels the need to be obsessed with me and it's creeping me out. one would think an adult could have a disagreement with someone just let it go instead of following him around in threads and bashing him but i guess not.
    I've gone through this crap with him too. Personally I think he's more antigun than many on here. He's against constitutional carry, he's against an idea I had to create a second class of carry permit that would make it easier for people to carry (similar to how North Dakota has a class 1 and class 2 permit), and he seems to think people need to have a "need" to get a CPL. I wish he would grow up too and stop making a federal case because someone doesn't agree with him 100%.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Xmanhockey
    Please explain how I am Antigun because I do not want to give up any of my rights? I am dieing to know. You and detroitfan think I should be happy about losing a right I currently have so others can gain rights. That is just stupid. Nowhere do I recall saying anything about taking away current rights, please show me where since you think I did. You and detroitfan have done that though.

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    Maybe I should record what I am saying. I couldn't care anyless if either of you agree with me, but when you try to take away my rights I take that very personal.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    I should be happy about losing a right I currently have so others can gain rights.
    Technically you would be losing a privilege so others could regain a right.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
    Snyder is my observation is a Corporate Socialist and far from a Conservative or Constitutionalists. And socialists are far from Gun rights advocates or pro constitution. yes they may pay lip service to get your vote or support. but that's about all you will see from them.

    If he is pro gun he better man up and put his actions where his mouth is because I will support any reasonable candidate who wishes to remove him from office. I am tired of all mouth no action politicians like Romney the socialist.

    Too bad we don't have a Ted Nugent mentality running for the state of Michigan in the next election.

    As far as the accusations maybe one should prove their case with actual quotes and not just accusations. But on the other hand why attack someone for no reason Super trucker?
    The legislature has to put a Bill on Snyders desk before we can determine if he is pro-2A,as he said he is!His actions will provide us with the facts only after he's presented with something to sign!CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Technically you would be losing a privilege so others could regain a right.

    Bronson
    According to merriman dictionary, I would be losing a right so others can gain a right.
    This should not sit good with any true pro gun person.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    The fact that you must obtain a permission slip, which may be denied, from the State in order to carry your MI pistol in your vehicle makes it a privilege not a right.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    According to merriman dictionary, I would be losing a right so others can gain a right.
    This should not sit good with any true pro gun person.
    Merriam Webster told you you'd be losing a right? And I'm with Bronson here. The state issues you a permission slip to carry. To me anyone who was truly pro gun would be in favor of a system where no permit was required.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Xmanhockey,
    If you want a permit like North Dakota, move to North Dakota.

    I don't want to lose anything for you to change the world. I really can't type any slower then that.

    I am not going to argue semantics, I can carry a gun now. But when people like you want to change the world, I can no longer carry that gun.
    WTF is so hard to understand about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Merriam Webster told you you'd be losing a right? And I'm with Bronson here. The state issues you a permission slip to carry. To me anyone who was truly pro gun would be in favor of a system where no permit was required.
    On the surface ConCarry, no CPL, and no pistol registration sounds great. However, with ConCarry and without the CPL, you still have the prohibitions under 750.234d, unless you're LE or have permission. Arizona, for example, has ConCarry but you still need a permit to carry in places that serve alcohol. Also, with ConCarry, no pistol registration or even a CPL, you have the school zones to deal with. The pistol registration process is our permission slip from Gov to possess, carry, transport, etc, in those zones. (18 USC, Section 922q)

  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    On the surface ConCarry, no CPL, and no pistol registration sounds great. However, with ConCarry and without the CPL, you still have the prohibitions under 750.234d, unless you're LE or have permission. Arizona, for example, has ConCarry but you still need a permit to carry in places that serve alcohol. Also, with ConCarry, no pistol registration or even a CPL, you have the school zones to deal with. The pistol registration process is our permission slip from Gov to possess, carry, transport, etc, in those zones. (18 USC, Section 922q)
    It's simple, offer the permit as an option. Also if you don't want a permit you could volunteer for a background check that would exempt you from the federal GF school zone.
    Last edited by Venator; 02-19-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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