Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 123

Thread: approached in spokane mcdonalds playland-right action for the circumstances?

  1. #1
    Regular Member p85-GSXwheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane
    Posts
    36

    approached in spokane mcdonalds playland-right action for the circumstances?

    First, this has nothing to do with mcdonalds management, it was an encounter with another citizen. I Took my my daugter to lunch the other day at mcdonalds, I was OC'ing, as always...we finished up eating, and of course, my daughter wanted to play on the toys. So I took her out to play and was coaching her along an obstacle... an older gentlenan approached me (from a long sweeping angle so i could see him coming-not to my strong side either by the way) and said "some of the ladies are starting to look a little nervous, could you maybe throw your shirt over that?" I thought for a moment, then nodded and obliged him by covering up. I have that option since I do hold a current washington state CPL. My reason for switching to CC was simply because A.) I had the option legally and B.) The guy didn't say I was doing anything wrong and was VERY nice about it. As if, he knows that its legal, but was being....idk what the word is....maybe courteous of others. I mean, playland was packed and not everyone is educated as to their rights. Did I do the right thing based on circumstances? To avoid a possibe incident that would take away an officer from more important things just because some moms got scared that I had a firearm around a bunch of kids....I admit my decision was made somewhat based on feeling pressure from that thought. I just csnt see changing the activities i do with my daughter just because i excersize my 2nd ammendment right. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    P.S. playland almost completely cleared out in about 3-5 minutes.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Yelm, Washington USA
    Posts
    419

    Thumbs up

    You have every right to give up your legal rights for no reason.....which is what you did, i would not have done it but thats your choice.

    My reaction to this-> "some of the ladies are starting to look a little nervous, could you maybe throw your shirt over that?"

    would be-"it is unfortunate that they feel that way about a lawful activity however, i am not responsible for making them feel comfortable"
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    You have every right to give up your legal rights for no reason.....which is what you did, i would not have done it but thats your choice.

    My reaction to this-> "some of the ladies are starting to look a little nervous, could you maybe throw your shirt over that?"

    would be-"it is unfortunate that they feel that way about a lawful activity however, i am not responsible for making them feel comfortable"
    +1, not the choice I would of made, but to each his own.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  4. #4
    Regular Member p85-GSXwheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane
    Posts
    36
    Yeah, in a sense I gave up my rights....but its not like I went and put it in the car. I was still carrying, just concealed. I appreciate the reply. And yeah, I probably shouldnt have concealed when under pressure. But I guess maybe its because I'm kind of a youngster still @ 23. Haha

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by p85-GSXwheelman View Post
    Yeah, in a sense I gave up my rights....but its not like I went and put it in the car. I was still carrying, just concealed. I appreciate the reply. And yeah, I probably shouldnt have concealed when under pressure. But I guess maybe its because I'm kind of a youngster still @ 23. Haha
    you didn't give up anything. you made a CHOICE that given the circumstances, you are going to respect somebody's wishes and switch carry mode.

    this is called - pragmatism.

    and the guy who asked you will probably have a positive view of OC'ers based on this incident, and realize that we are reasonable people. the key is this - it was YOUR choice, and you made a decision

    you didn't give up ANY right.

    it all comes down to the fact, that he didn't demand, he didn't make a scene, and he was respectful enouhg of you to ask YOU instead of whinging to management, and you chose to AS A COURTESY change your mode of carry.

  6. #6
    Regular Member p85-GSXwheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane
    Posts
    36
    Hmmm...PALO- thanks for the insight. Very good point, I don't think its always necessary to "buck" someones request, especially when its nicely asked. If it only affected one person, it could have been a prime opportunity to educate, however...in this case I thought it best not to go around to all 27 families and explain our rights, etc. Haha

  7. #7
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828
    Quote Originally Posted by p85-GSXwheelman View Post
    First, this has nothing to do with mcdonalds management, it was an encounter with another citizen. I Took my my daugter to lunch the other day at mcdonalds, I was OC'ing, as always...we finished up eating, and of course, my daughter wanted to play on the toys. So I took her out to play and was coaching her along an obstacle... an older gentlenan approached me (from a long sweeping angle so i could see him coming-not to my strong side either by the way) and said "some of the ladies are starting to look a little nervous, could you maybe throw your shirt over that?" I thought for a moment, then nodded and obliged him by covering up. I have that option since I do hold a current washington state CPL. My reason for switching to CC was simply because A.) I had the option legally and B.) The guy didn't say I was doing anything wrong and was VERY nice about it. As if, he knows that its legal, but was being....idk what the word is....maybe courteous of others. I mean, playland was packed and not everyone is educated as to their rights. Did I do the right thing based on circumstances? To avoid a possibe incident that would take away an officer from more important things just because some moms got scared that I had a firearm around a bunch of kids....I admit my decision was made somewhat based on feeling pressure from that thought. I just csnt see changing the activities i do with my daughter just because i excersize my 2nd ammendment right. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

    P.S. playland almost completely cleared out in about 3-5 minutes.
    I am confused here. They know you are armed and supposedly are less concerned about it if it's covered? And then they all cleared out after you covered up anyway? So, you made it more difficult to access your self defense tool by covering and the complainers left anyway. Not sure covering had any benefit---- fairly certain there wasn't!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    747
    "They know you are armed and supposedly are less concerned about it if it's covered? "

    you can't spend any time around anti's and not realize that it is SO much about appearance, emotion, etc. it's not about ACTUAL dangers, nor statistically supported facts... it's about PERCEPTION, and simply put, SEEING a gun (on anybody but a cop) simply makes some people very nervous

    it is an entirely irrational emotional thing

    statistically speaking, people with CCW's (and i am sure the stats on OC'ers are also excellent) are amongst the most law abiding, nonviolent demographic around. if they'd study the stats, they'd realize that given a CCw'er and a randomly chosen individual, the CCw'er is a MUCH better bet for a person you should never fear.

    street cops in shall issue states, have started to recognize this. they know that it is NOT the legal CCWers (and again, i think OCers are rapidly catching up with perception) who present a threat to them. a cop pulling over a guy who says "hey, just to let you know , i am carrying a concealed firearm andhere's my permit" should feel at EASE

    a person wanting to do them harm would not volunteer that info, and a CCW'er is far less likely to assault them than the average person, and obviously CAN't be a convicted felon, etc

    it's a group that self selects for law abidingness, AND the mere carrying tends to put people on their best behavior

    that stuff doesn't matter to anti's

    they attach this talismanic, mystical quality to guns, as if they just magickally will leap off their owner's hip and start taking people out with a fussilade of bullets
    Last edited by PALO; 02-13-2012 at 03:53 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member p85-GSXwheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane
    Posts
    36
    Well, JoeSparky- it was an effort to show a little courtesy. Being hard headed will get you killed quicker than lifting your shirt a couple inches to draw. If anything you have an advantage because they don't know what they're walking into. (An armed citizen) although I do OC 95% the time. Just saying.
    Last edited by p85-GSXwheelman; 02-13-2012 at 04:01 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member .40S&W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    74
    I've never Oc'ed but I think you handled it well OP.

  11. #11
    Regular Member p85-GSXwheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane
    Posts
    36
    Hey thanks .40S&W- I like having the option of OC or CC....and I know a lot of my friends and family who I've educated and ultimately have gotten their licenses, prefer concealed. For me OC is actually just a lot more comfortable. But either way, id like to think washington is a lot safer when ppl carry.

  12. #12
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828
    Quote Originally Posted by p85-GSXwheelman View Post
    Well, JoeSparky- it was an effort to show a little courtesy. Being hard headed will get you killed quicker than lifting your shirt a couple inches to draw. If anything you have an advantage because they don't know what they're walking into. (An armed citizen) although I do OC 95% the time. Just saying.
    Understood and just putting to post my thoughts. Carry on in any legal manner you choose and so will I, my friend.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  13. #13
    Regular Member p85-GSXwheelman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Spokane
    Posts
    36

    Wink

    Joesparky, definately! Just for the record, I appreciate ALL feedback (positive or otherwise) and wasn't trying to be combative. I'm not above learning. Dare I say we are all on the same side? Btw, I like the last line of your message signature or whatever its called.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Yelm, Washington USA
    Posts
    419

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by p85-GSXwheelman View Post
    Hey thanks .40S&W- I like having the option of OC or CC....and I know a lot of my friends and family who I've educated and ultimately have gotten their licenses, prefer concealed. For me OC is actually just a lot more comfortable. But either way, id like to think washington is a lot safer when ppl carry.
    Being a (western)washington resident i CC most of the time because weather dictates i wear a jacket however in the summer when it is warm i OC simple out of comfort because well it is just to darn hot to wear a jacket when it is 65'+ outside. the option is nice to have, especially since it is protected.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Gardners, PA
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by p85-GSXwheelman View Post
    First, this has nothing to do with mcdonalds management, it was an encounter with another citizen. I Took my my daugter to lunch the other day at mcdonalds, I was OC'ing, as always...we finished up eating, and of course, my daughter wanted to play on the toys. So I took her out to play and was coaching her along an obstacle... an older gentlenan approached me (from a long sweeping angle so i could see him coming-not to my strong side either by the way) and said "some of the ladies are starting to look a little nervous, could you maybe throw your shirt over that?" I thought for a moment, then nodded and obliged him by covering up. I have that option since I do hold a current washington state CPL. My reason for switching to CC was simply because A.) I had the option legally and B.) The guy didn't say I was doing anything wrong and was VERY nice about it. As if, he knows that its legal, but was being....idk what the word is....maybe courteous of others......................
    p85-GSXwheelman;

    I respect your decision to switch to CC and I may have done the same thing, mostly depends on the situation.

    After having done that, I may have asked the "older gentleman" a question such as this and this goes with what others have said here:

    "Sir, something I don't quite understand - would you mind explaining to me why you feel that "some of the ladies" would look a little less nervous
    by me covering my firearm as opposed to leaving it in the open on my hip..???

    I would like to maybe understand his mindset to his asking to cover (as they already know you are sitting there with a firearm...). Maybe
    just engage in a polite conversation.........Sounds like an excellent opportunity for a little education in both directions.


  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Sounds to me like someone merely asked you for a favor and you granted it. Just think, everyone won. No confrontation, no repercussions, just a win-win.

    Goes to show how "polite" can be far more rewarding than turning it into a confrontation.


    BTW, maybe the "ladies" were just tired of saying to their kids "It's OK that he's carrying a gun, it's legal" and just wanted to get back to their Supersized Meals (with the diet drink of course)
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  17. #17
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    mayberry, nc
    Posts
    2,258
    i am in McD's a couple of times a week with my grandchildren. have only had positive encounters with people about OCing. but even if the gentleman had been polite, i would also politely declined. i would have pointed out that it is a right to carry and for the fact, that i was not harming anyone is a key factor. that it is one of points of OCing is to educate the public to carry.

    you did give up a right. it is a right to OC, it is privilege to CC. though i will back you on your decision, it is totally within your rights to do so.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Since I don't carry my CPL on my person......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445
    Monkey see, monkey no see? I fail to understand the rational thought that by covering up the already seen gun makes the sheep happy.

    It boggles my mind that human beings actually believe and follow this illogical rationalization.

    I would not have covered and would have queried the man about the logic I pointed out above.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    437
    My response, maybe:

    "Perhaps when they see you and I smiling and me being nice that there is no threat, after all you didn't require any courage to come up and speak to me. Have a good day".

    That way you neither acquiesce or deny his request.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Monkey see, monkey no see? I fail to understand the rational thought that by covering up the already seen gun makes the sheep happy.

    It boggles my mind that human beings actually believe and follow this illogical rationalization.

    I would not have covered and would have queried the man about the logic I pointed out above.
    Personally I would have done the same how is 3mm of cloth going to make someone who knows I am already carrying feel safer?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    437
    I think it IS important to carry on the impression that OC-ers are polite and reasonable. So one would attempt to be both while still retaining their rights. I think one approach would be to compliment the gentleman on his attitude, and talk about how a firearm is a tool, and defensive in nature and that (in this case) you are not a felon nor convicted of any DV.

    You can not change attitudes by either covering up and saying nothing, or by being rude or dismissive. Just seeing that the encounter was friendly would have a positive impact on the 'ladies'. (In fact, I might ask 'which ladies' to ascertain if this gentleman was deflecting by using them as an excuse to confront you).

    FWIW.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  23. #23
    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Olympia, Washington, USA
    Posts
    866
    I think you did fine. One of the mottos we throw out there all the time is "An Armed Society is a Polite Society". Yet we sometimes encourage confrontations to "educate others". What you did was appropriate for the time and place.
    www.WaGuns.org

    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

  24. #24
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Elizabethton, TN
    Posts
    795
    I'm, as one said earlier, a pragmatist myself and would politely cover up if my wardrobe allowed it. Sometimes I wear shirts that are too form fitting and would look ridiculous shrink wrapped around a bulky OCed P99 in a Serpa-not to mention half of the holster/muzzle sticking out the bottom. Maybe it's just my southern upbringing, but out of politeness I would accept a stranger's request if it's practical and reasonable. However, before doing so I think I'd be asking him "sure, but now that they know it's there, they're still going to know it's there if I cover up. so isn't it a little too late?" and wait for his response.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

  25. #25
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,968
    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    Being a (western)washington resident i CC most of the time because weather dictates i wear a jacket however in the summer when it is warm i OC simple out of comfort because well it is just to darn hot to wear a jacket when it is 65'+ outside. the option is nice to have, especially since it is protected.
    I was stationed at Fairchild for 6 years and my wife is from Spokane so we visit a lot. Being from Western Washington cracks me up since you have to do what the East side tells you to do. Does the new Sea Hawk stadium ring a bell?

    The question would be what would the answer have been if he didn't have his CPL?

    I'm not going to say what he did was right or wrong, everyone would have handled it in their own way.

    Do I feel like he gave in....yes

    Was he wrong....no

    What will happen when the polite guy tells another OC'er to hide his lawful activity but he refuses?

    My whole point is I could go up to someone wearing a religous symbol and ask them to hide it and what are the chances they would...just because I or someone felt uncomfortable?

    Both activities are covered as rights, we only let people stop us from practicing one of them today.....guess what one?

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •