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Thread: Harbor Freight Tools Respone

  1. #1
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    Harbor Freight Tools Respone

    Complaint Details

    Harbor Freight Tools
    3491 Mission Oaks Blvd.
    Camarillo, CA 93011-6010
    Contact:Support, Customer
    Phone800) 905-5464


    Malacowski, Gary

    3017 East Grange ave apt 2
    Cudahy, WI 53110
    (414) 744-8207
    garymalachowski@att.net



    Below is the company's response to your complaint.

    What a company does to resolve complaints is part of the information we report to the public on individual companies. To be certain that our report on this company is accurate, we need your confirmation that this complaint has been settled. Would you take a minute to tell us about your satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the response? The yellow shaded area indicates the complaint's current processing status and will allow you to enter your response in the text box.

    If we do not hear from you within the next seven days, we will assume you have accepted the company's offer or explanation and are satisfied with it. However, please feel free to contact us again if the company has made an offer to settle your complaint and fails to perform accordingly.

    Thank you for using the Better Business Bureau.


    Complaint ID: 16043643

    Complaint Classification:

    Complaint Description - Posted 1/23/2012 9:06:15 AM


    Description of Complaint: I recently had of some troubling circumstances which occurred at a Harbor Freight Tools Store. As the issue is important to me, I am writing you to obtain independent verification, the issue at hand is the corporate policy of Harbor Freight Tools regarding customers who lawfully carry firearms in Harbor Freight Tools Stores. According to one of your Wisconsin store Managers, Harbor Freight Tools decided not to allow concealed weapons within your Wisconsin stores.Stating Harbor Freight values the safety of all of our patrons and employees.But then why does Harbor Freight Tools allows Conceal Carry as well as Open Carry in there Stores, as far away as Kalamazoo, MI. Battle Creek , Michigan an as well as your stores in Minnesota.These States are but a few that have Conceal Carry an/or Open Carry laws for Years,an are Allowed to carry in their Harbor Freight Stores.So my Question is, Why is Harbor Freight Tools Discriminating against law abiding citizens of Wisconsin who have gone through the proper channels of state/federal background checks too obtain a concealed carry license issued by the Wisconsin Department of Justice. As of to date there are over Forty Thousand men & women who now have there Wisconsin Conceal Carry Permit,an With 4.3 Million Men & Women over 21 years old in Wisconsin, an a projection of 1.3 Million to get their Conceal Carry Permits can you really afford to alienate even 10 percent of them ?

    Complaint Summary


    The Discrimination against Wisconsin men & women who are just Exercising there Second Amendment right to Keep an Bare Arms.

    Resolution Sought

    Cease The Discrimination against Wisconsin men & women who are just Exercising there Second Amendment right to Keep an Bare Arms. While allowing other States to Exercise Theirs


    Additional Information


    Date Problem First Occurred:

    1/12/2012


    Product or Service:

    Model Name or Number:

    Date Purchased:

    1/12/2012


    Order Number:


    Amount In Dispute:

    $0.00



    Company's Response


    Company's Initial Response - Posted 02/09/2012


    Harbor Freight Tools is a privately owned company and is an occupant on the premises located at: 4698 S. Whitnall Road, Suite 13, St. Francis, WI, 53235. The Wisconsin Concealed Carry law permits owners and occupants of property to prohibit persons from carrying a concealed weapon in or on the property. In fact, a person may be subject to Class B forfeiture if he or she carries a firearm on the property after being notified not to remain on the property or remain with a specific firearm. (Wis. Stat. 943.13(1m) (b)) Harbor Freight Tools, like most employers with customers on their premises, including retailers and restaurants, also are advising customers not to bring weapons into its stores. Harbor Freight Tools will continue to promote a welcoming and safe environment for all of our guests. I apologize for the inconvenience this matter may have caused you or the complainant. Thank you, Theasha Gonzales


    Initial Response Summary

    Harbor Freight Tools is a privately owned company. The WI Concealed Carry law permits owners of property to prohibit persons from carrying concealed weapons in/on the property


    Consumer's Rebuttal

    .But then why does Harbor Freight Tools allows Conceal Carry as well as Open Carry in there Stores, as far away as Kalamazoo, MI. Battle Creek , Michigan an as well as your stores in Minnesota.These States are but a few that have Conceal Carry an/or Open Carry laws for Years,an are Allowed to carry in their Harbor Freight Stores.So my Question is, Why is Harbor Freight Tools Discriminating against law abiding citizens of Wisconsin who have gone through the proper channels of state/federal background checks too obtain a concealed carry license issued by the Wisconsin Department of Justice.
    By allowing the rest of the States to Conceal Carry & Open Carry in Harbor Freight Tools Stores amounts to nothing more then Selective Discrimination of our Second Amendment Rights. So why is this ? an why isn't Harbor Freight Tools doing this to all the States?


    Rebuttal

    The complaint is waiting for BBB to process. No edit is allowed at this point. (RebuttalID: 467237)



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  2. #2
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Proofreading is your friend.

    This made me laugh:
    Harbor Freight Tools will continue to promote a welcoming and safe environment for all of our guests.
    When did they start doing it?
    Looks to me like they're not welcoming certain people because of their peaceful, legal, exercise of protected civil rights. In fact, they're spending money to turn people away.

    And apparently they haven't figured out that the statute that allows them to turn people away also removes their immunity from liability when something bad happens (like Aldi's).

    And apparently they haven't figured out that signs don't stop criminals (like Aldi's & thousands of other places).
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  3. #3
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    The Harbor Freight in Madison moved it's sign to the window above the door, you would never see it if someone did not point it out to you. I only know because I congratulated them on removing the sign and the manager said it is still there and pointed it out to me. The manager said they moved it because too many customers complained about it. I was also told it was put up because they "are in a bad neighborhood". When I was in Columbus, Ohio (a concealed carry state) they were not posted.

    But the biggest question to ask is Why do they continually advertise in the NRA magazine if they are so anti weapons.

    I think the NRA should refuse advertisement money from them on this principle.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsad View Post
    SNIP... I think the NRA should refuse advertisement money from them on this principle.
    I think they should charge them double and laugh all the way to the bank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wsad View Post
    The manager said they moved it because too many customers complained about it. I was also told it was put up because they "are in a bad neighborhood". When I was in Columbus, Ohio (a concealed carry state) they were not posted.
    So people were complaining about the sign, they move it to a less conspicuous place, and still expect the people from the "bad neighborhood" to obey the sign. Being in said "bad nieghborhood" is even MORE reason not to post! I know, preaching to the choir here...

    If I hadn't already thrown away the packaging/receipt I would return the engine stand I bought there (while armed) two weeks ago. I looked pretty good at the entrance way and didn't see any signs when I was there - nothing on the doors or to either side.

    I again call for a statutorily standard sign as well as standard placement.

  6. #6
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Harbor Freight in Salt Lake City is not posted. Indeed, except for some hospitals and their clinics, very few locations in SLC are posted, even though UT law allows them to post.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Ever Hear the Phrase

    "Let Sleeping Dogs Lie"? Now everybody in your town knows to look for the sign. Don't see a sign? Shut up and carry. Nothing to be gained by congratulating anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by wsad View Post
    The Harbor Freight in Madison moved it's sign to the window above the door, you would never see it if someone did not point it out to you. I only know because I congratulated them on removing the sign and the manager said it is still there and pointed it out to me. The manager said they moved it because too many customers complained about it. I was also told it was put up because they "are in a bad neighborhood". When I was in Columbus, Ohio (a concealed carry state) they were not posted.

    But the biggest question to ask is Why do they continually advertise in the NRA magazine if they are so anti weapons.

    I think the NRA should refuse advertisement money from them on this principle.

  8. #8
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    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon .45 View Post
    So people were complaining about the sign, they move it to a less conspicuous place, and still expect the people from the "bad neighborhood" to obey the sign. Being in said "bad nieghborhood" is even MORE reason not to post! I know, preaching to the choir here...

    If I hadn't already thrown away the packaging/receipt I would return the engine stand I bought there (while armed) two weeks ago. I looked pretty good at the entrance way and didn't see any signs when I was there - nothing on the doors or to either side.

    I again call for a statutorily standard sign as well as standard placement.
    Is it your mission to reduce lawful concealed carry? Glad you didn't visit that Aldi's before the shotgun robber did. With thinking like this no wonder you guys had to wait a decade for cc.

  9. #9
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    Don't ask, don't tell, works for social networking too.

  10. #10
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    Good to know they truly, truly do not care about LACs.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  11. #11
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsad View Post
    The Harbor Freight in Madison moved it's sign to the window above the door, you would never see it if someone did not point it out to you. I only know because I congratulated them on removing the sign and the manager said it is still there and pointed it out to me. The manager said they moved it because too many customers complained about it. I was also told it was put up because they "are in a bad neighborhood". When I was in Columbus, Ohio (a concealed carry state) they were not posted.

    But the biggest question to ask is Why do they continually advertise in the NRA magazine if they are so anti weapons.

    I think the NRA should refuse advertisement money from them on this principle.
    ha...haha...hahahahahahaha.

    That's like saying Isreal should give up their nukes because they live in a bad neighborhood.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

  12. #12
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Just for the record, I called the three locations in this area. West Allis, St. Francis and Racine all verified that it is corporate policy that no weapons are allowed in their locations. I do not know if Harbor Freight Tools are a franchise, or all are owned by one corporation.
    I did send an email today, and added all three to the friend or foe list. Here is the email I sent. I know from experience that we can make a difference if we join in the common cause and fight for our rights together. Feel free to use my text as a base to send them your own message.
    To whom it may concern;

    It has come to my attention that your corporate policy is to prohibit law abiding citizens the right of self protection by posting no weapons signs at your Southeast Wisconsin stores. As Aldi's grocery store recently discovered, criminals will not turn around and leave because you have a no weapons sign by the door but may take it as an invitation. The only people that those signs will deter from entering your stores are those law abiding citizens who carry legally. Wisconsin has recently passed legislation that allows citizens to carry a concealed weapon only after a strict background check by the Department of Justice and firearms safety training. The criminal will not have any of those credentials. Businesses that choose not to prohibit weapons also enjoy immunity from civil liability from that decision. I would hope that you are willing to see past any irrational fear, and realize that people licensed to carry pose no threat to your employees or customers and stop preventing us from shopping at your locations. To give you a brief idea of how many potential customers you are alienating, the Department of Justice has issued over 60,000 concealed carry licenses to date. I will not patronize your stores until you choose not to prevent my ability to protect myself and family, and remove the signs from your stores.

    Thank you for your time.

    Last edited by bigdaddy1; 02-15-2012 at 10:31 PM.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    no more money

    Ah well no more money for them then. I will spend my dollars at other stores
    May I see your First, Fourth And Thirteenth Amendment Permits, please?

    Guns do not make you a killer. I
    think killing makes you a killer. You can kill
    someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is
    trying to ban you from driving to the ball game. (Andy Rooney RIP)

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Maybe I should write more letters but I think they would end up sounding snarky. My question has always been which they think is safer and less likely to lead to problems: my loaded, unattended handgun in the center console of my locked car in their parking lot, me standing in their parking lot unloading my handgun before leaving an unloaded, unattended handgun in the center console of my locked car in their parking lot or my loaded handgun left in a proper holster untouched on the hip of this background checked trained firearm owner peacefully shopping in their stores.

    I know, I know, background checked/gov't permitted, etc however, I'm not arguing about constitutional carry but rather making about point about their short sightedness overall.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    Just for the record, I called the three locations in this area. West Allis, St. Francis and Racine all verified that it is corporate policy that no weapons are allowed in their locations. I do not know if Harbor Freight Tools are a franchise, or all are owned by one corporation.
    I did send an email today, and added all three to the friend or foe list. Here is the email I sent. I know from experience that we can make a difference if we join in the common cause and fight for our rights together. Feel free to use my text as a base to send them your own message.
    To whom it may concern;

    It has come to my attention that your corporate policy is to prohibit law abiding citizens the right of self protection by posting no weapons signs at your Southeast Wisconsin stores. As Aldi's grocery store recently discovered, criminals will not turn around and leave because you have a no weapons sign by the door but may take it as an invitation. The only people that those signs will deter from entering your stores are those law abiding citizens who carry legally. Wisconsin has recently passed legislation that allows citizens to carry a concealed weapon only after a strict background check by the Department of Justice and firearms safety training. The criminal will not have any of those credentials. Businesses that choose not to prohibit weapons also enjoy immunity from civil liability from that decision. I would hope that you are willing to see past any irrational fear, and realize that people licensed to carry pose no threat to your employees or customers and stop preventing us from shopping at your locations. To give you a brief idea of how many potential customers you are alienating, the Department of Justice has issued over 60,000 concealed carry licenses to date. I will not patronize your stores until you choose not to prevent my ability to protect myself and family, and remove the signs from your stores.

    Thank you for your time.











    Here is the Address an Person.



    Harbor Freight Tools
    3491 Mission Oaks Blvd.
    Camarillo, CA 93011-6010
    Contact:Support, Customer
    Phone800) 905-5464


    Attn: Ms, Theasha Gonzals

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    Harbor Freight in Salt Lake City is not posted. Indeed, except for some hospitals and their clinics, very few locations in SLC are posted, even though UT law allows them to post.
    Can you please sent me a copy of it ( UT law ).

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Wonder if they have a regional manager who lives in Illinois.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  18. #18
    Regular Member msteinhilber's Avatar
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    More or less the same response I got. I noticed the sign at their Madison, WI location a while back and promptly walked next door to the Auto Zone which had no signs posted and had the heat shrink tubing I had intended to purchase at Harbor Freight. I e-mailed a scanned copy of my Auto Zone receipt in response to an e-mail I received from them to give them evidence they are losing business.

  19. #19
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Believe me its hard to word these so they get the point across without sounding condescending. I still recommend sending something to them but try to make it somewhat diplomatic.

    The original versions (there were several) had informed them that I added them to the friend or foe listing but decided that may sound a little threatening. I thought mentioning the 60k plus CCL holders should get the same effect. I did add them to the FoF list though
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=bigdaddy1;1703913]Believe me its hard to word these so they get the point across without sounding condescending. I still recommend sending something to them but try to make it somewhat diplomatic.

    The original versions (there were several) had informed them that I added them to the friend or foe listing but decided that may sound a little threatening. I thought mentioning the 60k plus CCL holders should get the same effect. I did add them to the FoF list though [/QUOTE

    I tryed the nice guy route, no such luck. So i go to the BBB, an I did get a respone, not the one I wanted, But a respone. It now tells me there is more here then meets the eye.
    That is why I went this route.


    Sun, January 22, 2012 3:59:26 PMBBB - Web Complaint
    From: "info@santabarbara.bbb.org" <info@santabarbara.bbb.org>Add to Contacts
    To: garymalachowski@att.net


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thank you for filing your complaint. As you requested, below is a copy of your complaint.

    Within the next business day, you will receive an email acknowledging receipt of the complaint. That acknowledgment will also give you information on how you can track the status of your complaint through our website.

    Complainant Information

    Mr. Gary Malacowski
    3017 East Grange ave apt 2
    Cudahy, WI 53110 USA
    garymalachowski@att.net
    Phone: (414) -74-4-8207
    Fax:

    Company Information:

    Harbor Freight Tools
    3491 Mission Oaks Blvd.
    Camarillo, CA 93011-6010
    Website: http://www.harborfreight.com/
    Phone: (800) 905-5464

    Complaint Text

    Description of Complaint: I recently had of some troubling circumstances which occurred at a Harbor Freight Tools Store. As the issue is important to me, I am writing you to obtain independent verification, the issue at hand is the corporate policy of Harbor Freight Tools regarding customers who lawfully carry firearms in Harbor Freight Tools Stores. According to one of your Wisconsin store Managers, Harbor Freight Tools decided not to allow concealed weapons within your Wisconsin stores.Stating Harbor Freight values the safety of all of our patrons and employees.But then why does Harbor Freight Tools allows Conceal Carry as well as Open Carry in there Stores, as far away as Kalamazoo, MI. Battle Creek , Michigan an as well as your stores in Minnesota.These States are but a few that have Conceal Carry an/or Open Carry laws for Years,an are Allowed to carry in their Harbor Freight Stores.So my Question is, Why is Harbor Freight Tools Discriminating against law abiding citizens of Wisconsin who have gone through the proper channels of state/federal background checks too obtain a concealed carry license issued by the Wisconsin Department of Justice. As of to date there are over Forty Thousand men & women who now have there Wisconsin Conceal Carry Permit,an With 4.3 Million Men & Women over 21 years old in Wisconsin, an a projection of 1.3 Million to get their Conceal Carry Permits can you really afford to alienate even 10 percent of them ?

    Resolution Sought: Desired Settlement: Other (requires explanation)
    Desired Outcome Description: Cease The Discrimination against Wisconsin men & women who are just Exercising there Second Amendment right to Keep an Bare Arms. While allowing other States to Exercise Theirs
    Date Problem Started: 1/12/2012
    Date of Transaction: 1/12/2012
    Amount in Dispute: $0.00
    Invoice Number:
    Complaint Type: Customer Service Issues
    Product or Service:

    If you have any questions regarding your complaint, please contact the Complaint Dept. at (805) 963-8657 or email info@santabarbara.bbb.org.

    Complaint Department

    BBB of the Tri-Counties





    OK, Hold this thought I,ll be right back, Dinnertime....

  21. #21
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    As far as I'm concerned I have no dollars to spend at Harbor Freight. When I look around the store all I see is cheap Chinese junk and more American jobs disappearing to our economic enemies in the east. Let them continue to discriminate against CCW...I won't shop their anyways.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Archangel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by range rat View Post
    Description of Complaint: I recently had of some troubling circumstances which occurred at a Harbor Freight Tools Store. As the issue is important to me, I am writing you to obtain independent verification, the issue at hand is the corporate policy of Harbor Freight Tools regarding customers who lawfully carry firearms in Harbor Freight Tools Stores. According to one of your Wisconsin store Managers, Harbor Freight Tools decided not to allow concealed weapons within your Wisconsin stores.Stating Harbor Freight values the safety of all of our patrons and employees.But then why does Harbor Freight Tools allows Conceal Carry as well as Open Carry in there Stores, as far away as Kalamazoo, MI. Battle Creek , Michigan an as well as your stores in Minnesota.These States are but a few that have Conceal Carry an/or Open Carry laws for Years,an are Allowed to carry in their Harbor Freight Stores.So my Question is, Why is Harbor Freight Tools Discriminating against law abiding citizens of Wisconsin who have gone through the proper channels of state/federal background checks too obtain a concealed carry license issued by the Wisconsin Department of Justice. As of to date there are over Forty Thousand men & women who now have there Wisconsin Conceal Carry Permit,an With 4.3 Million Men & Women over 21 years old in Wisconsin, an a projection of 1.3 Million to get their Conceal Carry Permits can you really afford to alienate even 10 percent of them ?

    Complaint Summary

    The Discrimination against Wisconsin men & women who are just Exercising there Second Amendment right to Keep an Bare Arms.

    Resolution Sought

    Cease The Discrimination against Wisconsin men & women who are just Exercising there Second Amendment right to Keep an Bare Arms. While allowing other States to Exercise Theirs

    Consumer's Rebuttal

    .But then why does Harbor Freight Tools allows Concealed Carry as well as Open Carry in there Stores, as far away as Kalamazoo, MI. Battle Creek , Michigan an as well as your stores in Minnesota.These States are but a few that have Concealed Carry an/or Open Carry laws for Years,an are Allowed to carry in their Harbor Freight Stores.So my Question is, Why is Harbor Freight Tools Discriminating against law abiding citizens of Wisconsin who have gone through the proper channels of state/federal background checks too obtain a concealed carry license issued by the Wisconsin Department of Justice.
    By allowing the rest of the States to Conceal Carry & Open Carry in Harbor Freight Tools Stores amounts to nothing more then Selective Discrimination of our Second Amendment Rights. So why is this ? an why isn't Harbor Freight Tools doing this to all the States?
    My only response is please for goodness sake use spellcheck when sending letters of complaint and even then have somebody PROOFREAD the letter first! I hit the highlights on just a cursory examination of that complaint.

    Feel free to flame away, but if I am the business exec and I got a letter like that, once I stopped laughing it's going into the circular file.

    Not trying to be a spelling and grammar nazi, I make plenty of errors in both spelling and grammar. However, when sending something to a corporation or to a politician I do my best to ensure that both are impeccable before sending them out, such as having somebody proofread the letter first to catch anything I may have missed. I also will not send out something I've written when I am angry or emotional. I take some time to cool off and then write out a reasoned response.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    All very interesting because Harbor Freight in Richmond, Va has no gun buster sign and I have OCd there on many occasions.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I assume the company is a franchise, and the stores in Wisconsin are owned by a liberal company or individual that believes guns are animated objects that will rise up and conquer the world. The stores in other parts of the country that do not prohibit self protection are probably owned by other companies or individuals.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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