Companies new CCW policy - not sure they got this right.

The Key is to Work for a Reasonable Employer

bigdaddy1 said:

That which is reasonable isn't always legal.

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True but not relevant, I think, to this situation. I would say that the case is more often that which is legal isn't always reasonable. But I digress.[/QUOTE]

Also if I am going skeet shooting after work and have my shotgun in the trunk I have still complied with the transportation law and any concealed carry license has no bearing.

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Correct. However, your employer may have workplace rules. One such rule may ban firearms on company property. Unless they are really bizarre or a pretext for some unlawful discrimination, such employer rules are likely valid and will be upheld. Act 35 merely gives you a shield against such rules for a particular type of weapon (e.g. no handguns) stored in a particular place (your vehicle).

My employer has no legal right to search my car, therefore anything in my car does not pertain to my employer.

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The first part may be generally true but not absolutely so. The second part really doesn't follow from the first part but in any event is also not true 100% of the time. You would probably agree that your employer would have an interest in contraband in your vehicle (once again this is on his property). Do not forget that the 4th Amendment does not (again generally) apply to private actors.

Act 35 provides additional permissions with concealed carry but doesn't eliminate the transportation laws from before the law was signed.

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Well, some of the transportation laws were affected but leaving that aside you seem to think that compliance with a state statute obviates the need to comply with workplace rules. Not so.

Do You Work for Montgomery Burns?

hermannr said:

IMHO, it is none of their business if I have a permit/or not; if I have a pistol in my car, or not..privacy issue, I don't give a da## what they want, or why they want it, it is none of their business for an employee to do anything that is legal, that does not imact his work, or their security.

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It's none of their business unless you wish to use your license as a tool to negate a workplace rule. You are incorrect in saying that any conduct by an employee, if legal, must be accepted at the job site. Even if you restrict to things "that impact his work (or not)" - that is a determination that the employer makes, not the employee.

If they have a safety concern, and want you to wear steel toe boots, they can supply them. If you have a safety concern and you wish to wear steel toe boots in an office environment, it is none of their business. Boot's, your driver's license (unless you drive one of their cars) and guns are just somethings that are legal, that some companies want to regulate, but if you push back, they soon find they cannot.

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I see. So if you work in a position where a coat and tie are expected, your employer has to provide them or you are free to wear Bermuda shorts? Provided you have an image concern, of course. Can you bring a some Jack Daniels to enjoy at your desk during your (unpaid) lunch period? I think you underestimate the authority of an employer to regulate the behavior of employees on the job.

The state says you can have a gun in your car, it is absolutely none of their business if you actually do or not. They can only do it if you allow them to. Does not WI state that permits are private? Keep them private.

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Well it is the employer's business if you bring the gun onto his property. Act 35 only prevents the employer from not allowing you to store it in your vehicle while on the employer's property. Since this privilege stems from your possession of a license, why should the employer not be able to verify the fact? Anybody can claim to have a license and as you point out license information is available only to a small set of people under certain conditions. To be sure, if you keep a low profile, it may never become an issue. Probably.

apjonas said:

Correct. However, your employer may have workplace rules. One such rule may ban firearms on company property. Unless they are really bizarre or a pretext for some unlawful discrimination, such employer rules are likely valid and will be upheld. Act 35 merely gives you a shield against such rules for a particular type of weapon (e.g. no handguns) stored in a particular place (your vehicle).

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I had to do a lot of research for a company when this issue first came about, when CC was only a rumor. If your company suspects you have stolen property, or have other illegal substances in your car they DO NOT have the right to search you or your vehicle. They can look through the windows and they can ask your permission to look inside but can not move anything, such as a blanket, shirt etc to see if there is anything underneath nor can they go in any closed compartments. An employer can not detain you (unless they are registered private security, such as theft prevention personnel) or prevent you from taking your vehicle either. They can call the police, and if they have RAS they can search your car, otherwise a search warrant is required. I did not however check on if an employer has the legal right to see any documentation other than a drivers license (if operating a motor vehicle is required for your job) and Federal or State eligibility documents (such as social security card, or naturalization papers). Knowing that they can only ask for a drivers license if operating a motor vehicle is required for your job leads me to believe they don't have the legal right to ask for any other documentation.

Let's Focus

bigdaddy1 said:

I had to do a lot of research for a company when this issue first came about, when CC was only a rumor. If your company suspects you have stolen property, or have other illegal substances in your car they DO NOT have the right to search you or your vehicle. They can look through the windows and they can ask your permission to look inside but can not move anything, such as a blanket, shirt etc to see if there is anything underneath nor can they go in any closed compartments. An employer can not detain you (unless they are registered private security, such as theft prevention personnel) or prevent you from taking your vehicle either. They can call the police, and if they have RAS they can search your car, otherwise a search warrant is required. I did not however check on if an employer has the legal right to see any documentation other than a drivers license (if operating a motor vehicle is required for your job) and Federal or State eligibility documents (such as social security card, or naturalization papers). Knowing that they can only ask for a drivers license if operating a motor vehicle is required for your job leads me to believe they don't have the legal right to ask for any other documentation.

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This is all interesting but you are talking around the issue. As I understand it, the question is whether or not an employer may require you to show him your WI CWL in order to have covered weapons in your car on company property. I think the answer is clearly yes. If an employer has a "no weapons" policy, that policy is enforceable except to the extent a law says otherwise. A non-licensee who introduces a weapon onto the company lot is in violation of that policy and may be disciplined accordingly. Act 35 provides an exception. The exception is based on your status as a licensee. I suppose there are other ways to prove your status but showing the piece of plastic is certainly the easiest. A shotgun is not a covered weapon. Therefore even a licensee may not bring in a shotgun without violating the policy. I'm sure that if you are careful the boss may never find out. That doesn't change whether or not you have transgressed the rules. The fact that a kid doesn't get zapped for illegal downloading does not mean that copyright infringement has not taken place. Getting away with a bad act does not equal making the act any less "bad."

apjonas said:

This is all interesting but you are talking around the issue. As I understand it, the question is whether or not an employer may require you to show him your WI CWL in order to have covered weapons in your car on company property. I think the answer is clearly yes. If an employer has a "no weapons" policy, that policy is enforceable except to the extent a law says otherwise. A non-licensee who introduces a weapon onto the company lot is in violation of that policy and may be disciplined accordingly. Act 35 provides an exception. The exception is based on your status as a licensee. I suppose there are other ways to prove your status but showing the piece of plastic is certainly the easiest. A shotgun is not a covered weapon. Therefore even a licensee may not bring in a shotgun without violating the policy. I'm sure that if you are careful the boss may never find out. That doesn't change whether or not you have transgressed the rules. The fact that a kid doesn't get zapped for illegal downloading does not mean that copyright infringement has not taken place. Getting away with a bad act does not equal making the act any less "bad."

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Employers can ONLY ask for 2 forms if identification for the purpose of determining employment eligibility. Privacy laws were not overridden by act 35. The only exception is if your job requires you to operate a motor vehicle they can ask to see your drivers license.