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Thread: Bolt Rifle UOC in Santa Clarita, Ca?

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    Question Bolt Rifle UOC in Santa Clarita, Ca?

    Hey guys I just made the account so I could pose a question for you, but I have read these forums for a while looking for advise. I want to open carry a long rifle for the first time and wanted to make sure that it is legal around me. My house is within 1000 feet of a K-12 school so i know I'll at least have to drive down the road a ways then get out and walk. I will be doing it with a Mosin-Nagant (I have plenty of other firearms, this is the cheapest rifle that I have and am most willing to forfeit in the event that the police get a red hot poker up their 4th point of contact) slung on my back. Its for no particular reason other than it is my right and I want to do it. I've read just about everything I can on UOC. I'm 25 years old, well kept, squeeky clean record (not even a parking ticket), 4 year US Army combat vet, and (unfortunately) live within LA County. I've read all the local ordinances for Santa Clarita and there is nothing about weapons in it, and basically I would like to know if there is anything in LA County's ordinances about rifle UOC?

    Thanks guys =D

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamChase View Post
    Hey guys I just made the account so I could pose a question for you, but I have read these forums for a while looking for advise. I want to open carry a long rifle for the first time and wanted to make sure that it is legal around me. My house is within 1000 feet of a K-12 school so i know I'll at least have to drive down the road a ways then get out and walk. I will be doing it with a Mosin-Nagant (I have plenty of other firearms, this is the cheapest rifle that I have and am most willing to forfeit in the event that the police get a red hot poker up their 4th point of contact) slung on my back. Its for no particular reason other than it is my right and I want to do it. I've read just about everything I can on UOC. I'm 25 years old, well kept, squeeky clean record (not even a parking ticket), 4 year US Army combat vet, and (unfortunately) live within LA County. I've read all the local ordinances for Santa Clarita and there is nothing about weapons in it, and basically I would like to know if there is anything in LA County's ordinances about rifle UOC?

    Thanks guys =D
    A Mosin Nagant is, in many people's opinion, perhaps the most preferable long gun to openly carry. It has a traditional wood stock, bolt action, and is impossible to conceal, save inside a case or gunsock. The California GFSZ does not apply to long guns... but I believe the Federal prohibition still applies and would mandate that it be in a locked gun rack or case.

    Having no other purpose, other than to carry it in public, is unfortunately not going to garner much support- even from many in the gun community. In the realm of influencing public opinion, carrying it 'because you can' is usually percieved as a touch nutty by the general public. Their aversion to this display isn't what either local law enforcement or many from the gun right community are aching to contend with. As you should be aware, our legislature is considering a bill to ban the public display of long guns.

    I think it would be helpful if you augmented your outing with some significant purpose to your open carry activity. SaveOurState only carries while walking to the range. I would say that it would be wise to minimally, have this as your purpose of carrying a rifle in public. Alternatively, you might consider making this a clear 1st amendment statement by fixing your bayonet to your rifle with a pro-liberty message affixed to it. The rifle then, is also a part of your free speech demonstration.

    I cannot comment on what LA county ordinances might exist to restrict this activity. I would refer you to the county website to search their ordinances thoroughly or to contact a competent gun law attorney for advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    A Mosin Nagant is, in many people's opinion, perhaps the most preferable long gun to openly carry. It has a traditional wood stock, bolt action, and is impossible to conceal, save inside a case or gunsock. The California GFSZ does not apply to long guns... but I believe the Federal prohibition still applies and would mandate that it be in a locked gun rack or case.

    Having no other purpose, other than to carry it in public, is unfortunately not going to garner much support- even from many in the gun community. In the realm of influencing public opinion, carrying it 'because you can' is usually percieved as a touch nutty by the general public. Their aversion to this display isn't what either local law enforcement or many from the gun right community are aching to contend with. As you should be aware, our legislature is considering a bill to ban the public display of long guns.

    I think it would be helpful if you augmented your outing with some significant purpose to your open carry activity. SaveOurState only carries while walking to the range. I would say that it would be wise to minimally, have this as your purpose of carrying a rifle in public. Alternatively, you might consider making this a clear 1st amendment statement by fixing your bayonet to your rifle with a pro-liberty message affixed to it. The rifle then, is also a part of your free speech demonstration.

    I cannot comment on what LA county ordinances might exist to restrict this activity. I would refer you to the county website to search their ordinances thoroughly or to contact a competent gun law attorney for advice.

    Thank you for the explanation. As I was talking with a LEO friend of mine he said it would also be wise to have my stated purpose as heading to the gun range. However, affixing a sign to a bayonet constitutes as protest in LA county, something you cannot do without a permit (even if you're by yourself). My stated purpose to LEO would definitely not be "Just because I can." But, that is why I wanted to get active here to get advice =D.

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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    You really need to do more research before you go out and open carry. I see a few things wrong just by reading your posts. You say you already have reasons made up for when the police stop you. MISTAKE # 1 . My advice to you would be to NO SPEAK TO POLICE AT ALL. Here are the ONLY words you should speak to police "I do not consent to any searches of my person or property and I will answer no questions with out my attorney present". Thats it. Nothing more nothing less.

    We all know that natural human reaction is to get scared around police and try to talk and explain things. DO NOT. I repeat, DO NOT say anything other than the words I wrote above.

    Also, have two video and audio recording devices on at all times. If you can, have a second person who is not open carrying along to video tape you.

    As for the federal school zone, personally I dont think the local cops would turn you over to the feds but to be honest it wouldnt surprise me and I would love to find out if they would. So if you end up in federal prison please come back on here and let us know.
    At first I thought the CA Patriot was just an uppity, misguided, fool. But having read this, I think he may be more of a troll. I don't usually make accusations like that either, but that last bit seemed meant to drive people away from activism and not a helpful warning

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    +1 to carrying an audio recorder and make sure it is running before you leave your house.
    +1 to not speaking to the police. Your questions should be, "Am I being detained?" If you are, then remain silent until you are no longer being detained, then ask the officer for his business card. If you are not, then leave/carry on with your business.
    Be sure you have rounds on you just in case you actually have to use your weapon. You'd feel mighty silly being able to stop a violent criminal and being unable to.

    I think carrying a long gun just because you can is a perfectly acceptable initial reason to verify your natural rights in society. You'll likely learn from the experience and perhaps your reasons for carrying will evolve.

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Be prepared to be stopped and automatically presumed by LE to be breaking a law.
    Depending on the type of LE and their personal view of Open Carry you will get different responses, but for the most part they will be negative, and be swayed by your responses verbally and non verbally to their "******* test"

    LE always adminster the AH test to people to determine if you are a cowering sheep type or a belligerant criminal or civil rights advocate. Unfortunatley belligerant criminal and civil rights advocate are one in the same in their eyes.

    So just be aware your fighting an uphill battle, first off they get a call for a man with a gun, they drive up to your location,see you strolling or sitting there with a rifle on your shoulder, and think "who is this F'ing clown". they are already approaching you thinking you are up to no good, the weapon is loaded, its illegal, your illegal, open carry is now illegal, at the least your crazy. So the first words out of your mouth or not speaking at all will be crucial.

    If they dont prone you out and do a full body molestation barraging you with attitude and questions about who you are or where you are going why are you carrying a gun what are you thinking etc..... you have an opportunity to make the encounter go somewhat smoothly.

    Here is my advice, and it has worked pretty well for me with my many LE contacts.
    -First off DONT carry any ID, nothing to identify you. This way when they ask you for ID you can honestly say "sorry I dont have any" and when they ask you for name and dob they want to run you for priors, you are not required to ID yourself unless you are being arrested, so politely decline to ID yourself, quote the appropriate SCOTUS case to support this, if they search you for ID they will find none and now you have cause for illegal search.
    - Be cordial and friendly, say "Hi", "How you doin today" , "Officerrr???______" extend your hand offer a handshake. This is a verbal judo technique that makes the officer choose to comply with your social game of greeting or be rude and decline to be cordial. It also displays an open unarmed hand in a non threatening manner. If they choose rude and decline to shake hands, call them out on this "Why are you being so rude officer I thought your (agency) treats all citizens with respect and dignity?" This is the exact same techniques they will use on you to get you to verbally comply to their game of "im in charge, you cower in fear and do as I say". Dont play their game, beat them at it by playing the fine upstanding polite and dignified citizen, it will sound better on the video/audio recorder if it needs to be used later.
    -Absolutley know all your rights cold and be ready and able to quote from memory under stress, Scotus and penal codes. Dont be rude or demeaning just be nice and firm and stand up for what you know are your rights and what they can and can not do as agents of the government.
    - Try and end the encounter as quickly as possible, any attempt they make to detain you is an attempt to find something to stick to you or for you to make a mistake. The moment they finish the E check, if they choose to do one, thank them for being professional, and leave. Even if they werent acting or behaving professionally thank them anyway, it sounds better on the tape and it reminds them they are srewing up by you thanking them when they are being bullys.
    -They will try very hard to get you to electivley give information to them and they will try and use this against you, they may insult you, demean you challenge your manhood, yell at you, threaten arrest all sorts of techniques to knock your ego down and make you be submissive. The best way to handle this is to not respond at all, in fact be MORE cordial and respectfull, but not submissive. They want to get under your skin and make you squirm and show your upset. Dont let them, this is how you win at Verbal Judo.
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    At first I thought the CA Patriot was just an uppity, misguided, fool. But having read this, I think he may be more of a troll. I don't usually make accusations like that either, but that last bit seemed meant to drive people away from activism and not a helpful warning
    Most assute observation on character in this thread. Gold star and smiley face.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    In response to the above by Firemark,

    If you read my experience, I did much better on my gun hikes when I notified law enforcement in advance. I did it by emailing the agencies and advised them I'd be along a certain route or in close proximity to, and that I would be doing so within the law, and asked that they respect my rights. Almost 11 miles and nothing but a casual wave by one unit passing by. This beat the hell out the pavement inspection I had 6 months prior. Personally, I want these agencies help and cooperation, not their ire. I had to notify 4 agencies (the hike took me through 2 cities, one county, and state CHP jurisdictions) and the 9-11 dispatcher, but it didn't take much time and no cost.
    I know a lot of folks here are adamant about "we shouldn't need to notify anyone when exercising a right", and that's their opinion, but you can look at it another way also: You're out there in the cruel world, often alone, and you have one of the most useful tools for a felon, gang member, or violent criminal who can't buy one legally. In addition, you never know when some busybody fool takes it upon himself hold the open carrier at gunpoint because he thinks you're a nut, criminal, or whatever. When that call comes, personally I want the cops to be wondering if it's me the idiot is holding

    CA Patriot,

    Yes, the troll card. Unless you'd like to rephrase or omit that last bit of commentary that seemed hell bent on scaring the would be activist. I'd gladly revise my assessment then

  9. #9
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    In response to the above by Firemark,

    If you read my experience, I did much better on my gun hikes when I notified law enforcement in advance. I did it by emailing the agencies and advised them I'd be along a certain route or in close proximity to, and that I would be doing so within the law, and asked that they respect my rights. Almost 11 miles and nothing but a casual wave by one unit passing by. This beat the hell out the pavement inspection I had 6 months prior. Personally, I want these agencies help and cooperation, not their ire. I had to notify 4 agencies (the hike took me through 2 cities, one county, and state CHP jurisdictions) and the 9-11 dispatcher, but it didn't take much time and no cost.
    I know a lot of folks here are adamant about "we shouldn't need to notify anyone when exercising a right", and that's their opinion, but you can look at it another way also: You're out there in the cruel world, often alone, and you have one of the most useful tools for a felon, gang member, or violent criminal who can't buy one legally. In addition, you never know when some busybody fool takes it upon himself hold the open carrier at gunpoint because he thinks you're a nut, criminal, or whatever. When that call comes, personally I want the cops to be wondering if it's me the idiot is holding

    CA Patriot,

    Yes, the troll card. Unless you'd like to rephrase or omit that last bit of commentary that seemed hell bent on scaring the would be activist. I'd gladly revise my assessment then
    I did even better than that, each city I OC'd in I sat down with the police chief in charge of public relations or OC handling and had a nice hour to hour and a half chat about who I was what I would be doing, what the laws were and what my expectations were of the officers I would be encountering. In many cases I prompted further updated training for the respective departmnents. Still doesnt change the fact that I still encountered LE that HATE the idea of armed citizenry. Instead of ID I carried all the business cards of all the senior LE I sat down and talked with, so if I got a "Barney Fife" type cuff and search me while OCing then all they would find would be their supervisors business cards and an interseting converstaion about how we sat down and discussed department policy regarding OC.

    Same concept different aproach Save our State, working with LE not against.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I sometimes think that many in the open carry movement did so out of a secret obsession and lust for police officer attention. Its sick.
    I sometimes think that many in the American Colonies freedom movement did so out of a secret obsession and lust for British Soldiers attention.

    Your thought process may be a bit skewed, wanting your rights back and protesting is not the same as people doing actions simply for attention. Seeing as many people seek attention in almost every endeavor of mankind, then we should never endeavor to be involved in a movement????

    But who knows maybe George Washington just wanted attention when he was the only one who showed up to the Continental Congress everyday in his French Indian War uniform.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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