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Thread: Michigan laws

  1. #1
    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    Michigan laws

    I will be traveling to Detroit this weekend and was wanting to find information on where I cannot carry openly or concealed. I have a valid WI permit and know that I will be visiting a plce that serves alcohol. I do not drink personally but am under the impression that with my concealed weapons license I can almost carry everywhere. Do you have any laws in regards to establishments posting? If so are the signs law or just suggestions?

  2. #2
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Please see post #107 in this link for a chart to show where you can OC and CC-

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ce-chart/page4

    The signs in MI do not carry legal weight, but if you are asked to leave and don't comply you are trespassing and they can get you on that. Hope that helps.
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 02-14-2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: change post #
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    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Check here. A http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123...0947--,00.html.


    Also if the bars alcohol income is 50% or more by poured glass you need to leave your gun in the car.
    Id rather look at my ugly Glock than shoot your fancy S&W.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    Check here. A http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123...0947--,00.html.


    Also if the bars alcohol income is 50% or more by poured glass you need to leave your gun in the car.
    if he has a cpl (or WI equivalent) he can OC in a bar that gets over 50% of income from alcohol sales
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    if he has a cpl (or WI equivalent) he can OC in a bar that gets over 50% of income from alcohol sales
    True. In such case he may be asked to leave. Could ruin a good time.
    Last edited by GlockIt; 02-14-2012 at 03:22 PM.
    Id rather look at my ugly Glock than shoot your fancy S&W.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    The law (For CC) doesn't give a percentage. This is debated over and over.

    Let's say a business has:

    35% alch
    31% games
    34% food

    Primary source is...?
    Last edited by TheQ; 02-14-2012 at 03:24 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockIt View Post
    True. In such case he may be asked to leave. Could ruin a good time.
    you MAY be asked to leave, but that can happen at any business. your post said he NEEDS to leave his gun in the car, implying it is illegal to carry there. your post could confuse someone new and make them think it is illegal to carry there.
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 02-14-2012 at 03:43 PM.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The law (For CC) doesn't give a percentage. This is debated over and over.

    Let's say a business has:

    35% alch
    31% games
    34% food

    Primary source is...?
    correct. just another reason we need to get that repealed.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Regular Member GlockIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    you MAY be asked to leave, but your post said he NEEDS to leave his gun in the car, implying it is illegal to carry there. your post could confuse someone new and make them think it is illegal to carry there.
    My wording a bit off. Thanks for the correction. Imho I would just leave it in the car to avoid any confrintation.

    Is it legal sure. Do you want to deal with cops who could care less about your rights
    and try to jam you up, especially when your from out of state?
    Would it be worth the possible hassel? Thats a personal decision.
    Id rather look at my ugly Glock than shoot your fancy S&W.

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The law (For CC) doesn't give a percentage. This is debated over and over.

    Let's say a business has:

    35% alch
    31% games
    34% food

    Primary source is...?
    Thank you I was about to say that. I would like to add the definitions on merriam-webster:

    Primary:
    1: first in order of time or development : primitive <the primary stage of civilization> <the primary lesion of a disease>
    2a : of first rank, importance, or value : principal <the primary purpose>

    Majority:
    a : a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total <a majority of voters> <a two-thirds majority>
    b : the excess of a majority over the remainder of the total : margin <won by a majority of 10 votes>
    c : the greater quantity or share <the majority of the time>
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    Please see post #100 in this link for a chart to show where you can OC and CC-

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ce-chart/page4

    The signs in MI do not carry legal weight, but if you are asked to leave and don't comply you are trespassing and they can get you on that. Hope that helps.
    see the last post. The previous chart was innacurate.

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    You will not be exempted from the federal gun free school zone. You will have to stay 1,000 feet away from all schools.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    see the last post. The previous chart was innacurate.
    thanks for the correction. i didn't double check it since i already know them
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    I think thats why nobody else caught it either. I was helping rushalot1 when I spotted the error. WARCHILD corrected it immediately.

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    You will not be exempted from the federal gun free school zone. You will have to stay 1,000 feet away from all schools.
    Staying outside of 1,000 ft of all public/charter schools in a dense urban environment like Detroit thatís going to be very difficult.

    As I understand it Iíve heard rumors of police stopping and questioning anyone on foot between dusk and dawn these days in an effort to stem the tide of shootings. Also some units are scanning citizens from the comfort of their squad car with some kind of device that scans for a high lead content, the kind of lead commonly used in bullets. So donít think that if you are carrying concealed youíll be overlooked. Without reasonable suspicion of a crime, if you get pinged with this device by a DPD LEO heís going to stop you and ask if youíre carrying a gun. I just hope you arenít within a 2 1/2 block radius of any school.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    whatever you heard about some sort of lead detector was a complete fabrication... probably based on the true story of the nypd testing an unconstitutional infrared gun scanner:

    http://theweek.com/article/index/223...ed-gun-scanner

    the ACLU and many other civil rights organizations are all over this and i doubt it will ever see the light of day
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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    does anyone have a case or reference of someone with reciprocity being charged and prosecuted under the GFSZ as a stand alone charge? i've seen it added on as an additional charge after someone was arrested for something else (e.g. drugs in school zone) but never as the single charge against someone. not saying it can't happen, but has it?
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    whatever you heard about some sort of lead detector was a complete fabrication... probably based on the true story of the nypd testing an unconstitutional infrared gun scanner:

    http://theweek.com/article/index/223...ed-gun-scanner

    the ACLU and many other civil rights organizations are all over this and i doubt it will ever see the light of day
    Thanks for the link

    "Well, this might provide NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly with "an elegant solution to sidestep the controversy over his department's stop-and-frisk policy," says John Del Signore at Gothamist."

    That's like saying using the date rape drug, Rohypnol, is an elegant solution to sidestep the controvesry of raping a woman when she is fully conscious, aware and refusing consent. It's still a violation of her persons, it is still rape. What is wrong with this guy!?
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdr_iceman71 View Post
    Staying outside of 1,000 ft of all public/charter schools in a dense urban environment like Detroit thatís going to be very difficult.

    As I understand it Iíve heard rumors of police stopping and questioning anyone on foot between dusk and dawn these days in an effort to stem the tide of shootings. Also some units are scanning citizens from the comfort of their squad car with some kind of device that scans for a high lead content, the kind of lead commonly used in bullets. So donít think that if you are carrying concealed youíll be overlooked. Without reasonable suspicion of a crime, if you get pinged with this device by a DPD LEO heís going to stop you and ask if youíre carrying a gun. I just hope you arenít within a 2 1/2 block radius of any school.
    I

    llegal search w/out PC or RAS. Theres money to be made here folks.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    does anyone have a case or reference of someone with reciprocity being charged and prosecuted under the GFSZ as a stand alone charge? i've seen it added on as an additional charge after someone was arrested for something else (e.g. drugs in school zone) but never as the single charge against someone. not saying it can't happen, but has it?

    I dont have the cite handy, its the federal one, but you have to be licensed in the state of issuance.

  21. #21
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I dont have the cite handy, its the federal one, but you have to be licensed in the state of issuance.
    i understand the law, i'm just saying has anyone ever been arrested and prosecuted under it as a stand alone charge? i can not find 1 instance of that happening. some people are acting like the OP will be arrested just for entering a school zone here in MI but i can't find 1 instance of that ever happening, in ANY state. i know i personally go to ohio and tennesse often and carry in SZ's without worry. i'm guessing many other members on this board have also carried in other states with reciprocity and been in SZ's without issue.
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 02-14-2012 at 09:44 PM.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    I dont think there has been one, but I dont see any protection from it under the law either.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 02-14-2012 at 09:46 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    What happens if you're carrying in a school zone that's in a different state than your home state (with a permit), but you're in your home state? There are several schools, both in MI and WI that are within 1000 feet of the state line (according to Google Earth). Let's say a person is in WI with a WI permit, but is standing within 1000 feet of the MI school, could that person be charged for violating the GFSZA?
    Rand Paul 2016

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    IMO, yes.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
    q(2)(A)

    It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Ė Thomas Paine

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